About the Eucharistic Prayers

[MsgValadez]

When were these Eucharistics Prayers first created and used in the Mass?
With the new Church Calender year coming in Advent, which Eucharistic Prayer will be used on Sundays, or is it up to the individual priest to decide which to use?
Finally, in 3 of the 4 Roman Rite E.P’s, They read in part,“When supper was ended, he took the cup.” Is this to be taken litteral, that the wine was offered at the end of mass and could it be possible that the Early Catholic Masses offered the Wine/Blood at the end of the service?
=mv=

 

[benedictgal]

When were these Eucharistics Prayers first created and used in the Mass?
With the new Church Calender year coming in Advent, which Eucharistic Prayer will be used on Sundays, or is it up to the individual priest to decide which to use?
Finally, in 3 of the 4 Roman Rite E.P’s, They read in part,“When supper was ended, he took the cup.” Is this to be taken litteral, that the wine was offered at the end of mass and could it be possible that the Early Catholic Masses offered the Wine/Blood at the end of the service?
=mv=

There are some scholarly arguments as to which EP came first. Some say that it was actually EP II, which was attributed to St. Hippolytus.

However, the one that is commonly used at Papal Masses, especially during solemnities, is the Roman Canon, which includes the names of all of the Apostles (some can shorten it to leave out the ones in parenthesis) and the early martyrs of the Church. It also mentions St. Joseph by name as part of the canon, along with the Blessed Mother (who is mentioned in all of the EPs). EP I also brings the Sacrifice of Jesus within the historical contexts of the sacrifice of Abel, the sacrifice of Abraham, our father in faith, and the bread and wine offered by the priest Melchizedek.

The priest has latitude in choosing which EP he will use. However, one of the complaints that the Fathers of the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist had was that EP II was the most over-used (perhaps because it is the shortest). They noted that it should be used during the week.

Some EPs must be used with their prefaces. If a priest uses EP IV, he should use the preface that comes with it. The same holds true for the EPs for Reconciliation.

Perhaps the ones with the most limitations are those EPs for use in Masses with Children. These are only to be used if children make up a majority of the faithful present at Mass. They should not be used on Sundays.

Holy Communion is offered pretty much towards the end of the Mass. In order for the sacrifice to be completed, it had to be consumed. The priest’s reception of Holy Communion completes the sacrifice. So, it would make sense that the reception of Holy Communion is placed at the end of Mass. Remember, the Early Church was very cognizant of her roots in the temple worship of Ancient Israel. When the sacrifice was made, both the priest and the person on whose behalf the sacrifice was made, ate a share of the victim. We, as the New Israel, join the priest (so long as we are properly disposed) in eating a share of the Victim we have just offered to the Father.

 

[japhy]

When were these Eucharistics Prayers first created and used in the Mass?

Eucharistic Prayer II (the shortest one) is based upon a prayer found in the “Apostolic Tradition” of Hippolytus of Rome (early 3rd century). The Roman Canon (Eucharistic Prayer I), however, had been the only Eucharistic Prayer of the Roman Rite since around the 7th century through the 20th. Parts of it existed as early as the 4th century, if not earlier.

But, apart from the Roman Canon and the majority of Eucharistic Prayer II, the other Eucharistic Prayers you hear at Mass were written in the late 1960’s and beyond.

With the new Church Calender year coming in Advent, which Eucharistic Prayer will be used on Sundays, or is it up to the individual priest to decide which to use?

Since Masses during Advent have their own preface which must be used, Eucharistic Prayer IV (a summary of salvation history) may not be used. The others can, though. I think my pastor will use one of the two Eucharistic Prayers for Reconciliation. On Christmas, he usually uses Eucharistic Prayer I (the Roman Canon).

But apart from not being allowed to use E.P. IV, the decision is basically up to the priest. Using E.P. II (the shortest one) on Sundays is usually a poor pastoral decision.

Finally, in 3 of the 4 Roman Rite E.P’s, They read in part,“When supper was ended, he took the cup.” Is this to be taken litteral, that the wine was offered at the end of mass and could it be possible that the Early Catholic Masses offered the Wine/Blood at the end of the service?

No. That part of the E.P. is not referring to the order of events at Mass, but to what Jesus did at the Last Supper. The E.P. in no way implies or promotes postponing the offering and consuming of the Precious Blood at the end of Mass, apart from the offering and consuming of the Precious Body.

 

[AJV]

Since Masses during Advent have their own preface which must be used, Eucharistic Prayer IV (a summary of salvation history) may not be used.

I’m not sure about this because of the following dubium:

Q. When is a particular preface to be regarded as proper?
R. The problem arises mainly from the possibility of using Eucharistic Prayer IV, which has a fixed preface and consequently is governed by the rule that it may not be used when a Mass has its own proper preface.

Further, the preface of the season is said on feasts and also during the particular seasons, some of which are quite long, and this raises the question of the meaning of “proper preface.”

A preface is to be regarded as “proper” in a strict sense in Masses that are celebrated on the very day of a feast or during its .

In the Proper of Seasons there is a corresponding preface, but this is not to be regarded as proper strictly speaking and during the season Eucharistic Prayer IV and Eucharistic Prayer II with their own prefaces may be used. In votive Masses there is the option to use either the preface corresponding to the Mass or the preface of any Eucharistic Prayer: Notiatiae 5 (1969) 323, no. 1.

 

[japhy]

A preface is to be regarded as “proper” in a strict sense in Masses that are celebrated on the very day of a feast or during its .

In the Proper of Seasons there is a corresponding preface, but this is not to be regarded as proper strictly speaking and during the season Eucharistic Prayer IV and Eucharistic Prayer II with their own prefaces may be used.

So that means the Sundays of Advent have their own preface, but the weekdays of Advent do not?

 

[AJV]

So that means the Sundays of Advent have their own preface, but the weekdays of Advent do not?

The way I’m interpreting it is that the neither the Sundays not the feriae of Advent, which take the seasonal preface, have a preface that is ‘strictly proper’ and that seasonal prefaces(e.g. Advent and Lent) are not to be regarded as proper. The exceptions would be ones explicitly noted (e.g. the Preface for the days following Christmas*, or those Prefaces for Lenten Sundays that correspond with the Gospel)

• although that *could *also be regarded as festal

 

[Joannm]

Finally, in 3 of the 4 Roman Rite E.P’s, They read in part,“When supper was ended, he took the cup.” Is this to be taken litteral, that the wine was offered at the end of mass and could it be possible that the Early Catholic Masses offered the Wine/Blood at the end of the service?
=mv=

In the Jewish ritual meal, such as the Passover, there were two cups offered, one at the beginning of the meal, and one after. The cup that Jesus offered as the “cup of (his) blood”, was the second cup.

 

[FrDavid96]

When were these Eucharistics Prayers first created and used in the Mass?
With the new Church Calender year coming in Advent, which Eucharistic Prayer will be used on Sundays, or is it up to the individual priest to decide which to use?
Finally, in 3 of the 4 Roman Rite E.P’s, They read in part,“When supper was ended, he took the cup.” Is this to be taken litteral, that the wine was offered at the end of mass and could it be possible that the Early Catholic Masses offered the Wine/Blood at the end of the service?
=mv=

There are actually more than 4. I believe that when you add the ones for Masses with Children, Reconcilliation, and Special Needs and Occasions, the total comes out to 13. There are some rules as to which ones may or may not be used, and the other posters are hashing that out, so I’ll stay out of that one.

As for the Chalice, the Last Supper was, of course, a Jewish ritual meal (Passover in the Synoptics, Preparation in John), but regardless of which one, the Jewish custom was to offer the wine at the end of the meal, rather than our current Western custom of offering the “toast” before the meal begins. The meal was/is a single event–the Eucharistic Prayers simply are saying that at the Last Supper, they ate the Bread first and drank the Wine second.
To this day, the priest still consumes the Body first and the Blood second.

 

[benedictgal]

Actually, if one were to analyze the Last Supper, one would note that the last cup was not consumed by Jesus until he was on the cross. He said, “I thirst” and someone gave him some bitter wine dipped into a sponge.

The Passover had four cups. Jesus, as the True Paschal Lamb, withheld consumption of the final cup until just before his death.

I took a course on the New Testament taught by my parochial vicar. He spent this past June at a seminar taught by Dr. Scott Hahn who had explained the ritual. After having heard my PV, it made a lot of sense.

 

[MsgValadez]

Thank you for all of your replies. I’m trying hard to understand what you all said. There were a lot of deep Theological/Liturgical answers that are hard for me to understand at this time. I’ll look them up.

So, if it is not a seasonal ritual that a certain E.P is recited, and it is up to the choice of the priest, then should they not post his selection as they do the hymns of the day? I find it hard and hurried to flip through the Missal to find which one the priest is reciting.

Where can one find more information on the history and formation of these prayers? In trying to find information of them I found different names for them and also some controversy in the early church as to the exactness and effectiveness of them. It seems that they are so important, if not THE most important part of the mass, that I thought I would readily find more study of them, but I didn’t. It may be just my ignorance. My curiosity peaked in reading, James Akin’s book, “Mass Confusion.” He stated that there are 13 E.P’s and the 4 regularly used in mass are of the Roman Rite.

I can see why both forms are transubstantiated at the same time. I just wondered why they would allude to saying, “When supper was ended.” ? It seems to draw attention to a spacial/time sequence, historically. Along these lines, some E.P’s state “On the day before he suffered,” while another will say, “On the night he was betrayed.” I wonder if some were drawn from one apostles account and others prayers created from yet a different apostle?

Thank you for the insight of the deeper meanings of Christ’s drinking of the last cup. It is yet another layer of depth to the Mystery of the Mass for me.

Adios =mv=

 

[japhy]

So, if it is not a seasonal ritual that a certain E.P is recited, and it is up to the choice of the priest, then should they not post his selection as they do the hymns of the day? I find it hard and hurried to flip through the Missal to find which one the priest is reciting.

I don’t think it’s necessary for the priest to inform the people ahead of time which E.P. he’ll be using. He doesn’t inform you which greeting he’ll use, which Penitential Rite, which Collect, etc.

The E.P. is proper to the priest, not to you. It’s not required to follow along with the priest. Your full, conscious, and active participation does not hinge upon it.

My suggestion to you is to become familiar with the E.P.'s on your own time (you should really only need to know six of them: E.P. I, II, III, IV, and the two E.P.s for Reconciliation). That way, you’ll know them, and you’ll be able to quickly realize which one the priest is using, and you can spend your time praying in your own way.

Where can one find more information on the history and formation of these prayers? In trying to find information of them I found different names for them and also some controversy in the early church as to the exactness and effectiveness of them. It seems that they are so important, if not THE most important part of the mass, that I thought I would readily find more study of them, but I didn’t.

Here is an interesting article about how we went from one Eucharistic Prayer to thirteen.

I just wondered why they would allude to saying, “When supper was ended.”? It seems to draw attention to a spacial/time sequence, historically.

The Eucharistic Prayers are prayers to God the Father. They include a mention of what Jesus did when he instituted the Eucharist. Right before the “institution narrative”, each Eucharistic Prayer mentions by name Jesus Christ. The reason they mention “supper was ended” is because they are describing what Jesus did. The Eucharistic Prayers are basically saying at that point: “Please turn this bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Your beloved Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, who, on the night he was betrayed, took bread… and who, after supper was ended, took the cup…”

Along these lines, some E.P’s state “On the day before he suffered,” while another will say, “On the night he was betrayed.” I wonder if some were drawn from one apostles account and others prayers created from yet a different apostle?

Not so much that as the writers of the Eucharistic Prayers wanting variety. They didn’t want each prayer to sound so similar to one another.