About the importance of the Romanity

[Archedreamer]

Good afternoon everyone!

A doubt I have inside me since I am closer to Catholicism, it is: How important are the Roman elements in the Church for the religious aspects? It 's say, could the traditions saved not to be roman, but scandinavian, or french, or indian?

I desire you thanks

 

[ConstantineTG]

The Church allows for some inculturation to happen. But not every aspect of worship. Same as when the Apostles used the Greek’s culture to spread Christianity among the Gentiles rather than forcing the Gentiles to become Jewish.

 

[japhy]

The Roman Rite has – and will continue to have – elements from Roman culture with make it the distinct Rite it is. (The other Rites of the Catholic Church have elements from their respective cultures which make them distinct as well.)

 

[ConstantineTG]

The Roman Rite has – and will continue to have – elements from Roman culture with make it the distinct Rite it is. (The other Rites of the Catholic Church have elements from their respective cultures which make them distinct as well.)

The difference is that the Eastern Rites, for one reason or another, has been confined mostly to their own culture for much of the history of the Church. The Latin Rite has spread out to non-Latin cultures at the age of Exploration.

 

[Belloc_Fan]

The short answer is, the true Church is headed by Rome, and influenced by her theologically. She’s what the early Church called “the Apostolic See.” But liturgically and juridically, it’s not theologically necessary for all roads to lead to Rome. The pope has virtually no say over what the Marionites’ Liturgy looks like, for example. That’s left up to the Marionite Patriarch. As the last poster said, there are multiple Rites within the Catholic Church – these are related to, but not the same as, the various *sui iuris *Churches.

So to give one example, Pope Paul VI, prior to being Pope, was Archbishop of Milan. Milan uses the Ambrosian Rite instead, originated by St. Ambrose. So it’s a different set of traditions being preserved. Likewise, the Anglican Ordinariate will likely preserve and restore some of the uniquely English traditions within Catholicism, traditions which weren’t practiced or celebrated off the island.

Of the examples you gave, the French used to use the Gallican Rite, but it’s long since extinct. They were always Latins (they speak a Romance language, are part of the former Roman Empire, have a heavily Roman culture and legal system, and so on), so using the Roman Rite makes sense there.

In contrast, the Indian Catholics do have their own liturgical tradition, the Malankara Rite. It’s generally believed that St. Thomas the Apostle ended up there some time after Pentecost. Then, because communications were primitive and travel took forever, the Indian Christians were largely forgotten. It’s said that the Portuguese were shocked to discover indigenous Catholics praying something pretty similar to the Mass when they landed in (if memory serves) Goa.

So given that the post-Apostolic practices of the Indian church were developed in relative isolation from everyone else, it would be a real shame to simply erase that liturgical tradition, so they don’t use the Roman Rite, or pray the Mass . Their equivalent of the Mass is called the Holy Qurbana.

Wikipedia has a good list of Rites within the Church: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Catholic_rites_and_churches#List_of_Catholic_liturgical_rites

 

[ConstantineTG]

The short answer is, the true Church is headed by Rome, and influenced by her theologically.

I disagree. The Theology of the Eastern Rites is different from the Western or Roman theology. Communion means unity of mind, not single mindedness. The 22 Churches across 5 Rites of the Eastern Catholic Churches adhere to their own theology and doesn’t depend or get influenced by Rome (ideally). In fact there is a call to remove “Latinizations” from the Eastern Rites.

 

[Belloc_Fan]

I disagree. The Theology of the Eastern Rites is different from the Western or Roman theology. Communion means unity of mind, not single mindedness. The 22 Churches across 5 Rites of the Eastern Catholic Churches adhere to their own theology and doesn’t depend or get influenced by Rome (ideally). In fact there is a call to remove “Latinizations” from the Eastern Rites.

What about things like the essence / substance distinction? That’s very much Western right? And isn’t that still affirmed by Eastern Catholics?

 

[ConstantineTG]

What about things like the essence / substance distinction? That’s very much Western right? And isn’t that still affirmed by Eastern Catholics?

The understanding and how it is taught is different. Although here in North America I notice a lot of Latin catechesis is borrowed because people understand it better because its more common knowledge so you may hear transubstantiation from the mouth of an Eastern priest, sometimes. They may do that during Homily because they don’t want to turn it into a theology class that would stretch for hours. The pastor would have a feel for the community how they would understand better. What we believe is the same, the theology is just different because of how it developed in each Rite.

 

[Belloc_Fan]

What we believe is the same, the theology is just different because of how it developed in each Rite.

That sounds right. Initially, what I’d meant in talking about theological union with the pope was that there’s not a difference on theological issues (in the sense of a disagreement). That is, it isn’t as if one of the two sides affirms a particular dogma, and the other rejects it. Multiple ways of expressing that Truth, on the other hand? Absolutely.