About the Jesuits

  • Thread starter Thread starter Poco
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
P

Poco

Guest
Can anyone explain where this (sort of/somewhat) anti-Jesuit thinking comes from? Could it be that some (or most) of the universities they have founded have become quite liberal? I’m a new convert but I always thought the “black robes” were really cool! :ehh:
 
Most people who dislike the Jesuits, is that some members can be liberal - liturgically and elsewhere.

I remember going to a Jesuit retirement home and seeing an “Obama” campaign banner hanging out of one of the priest bedrooms.

I myself don’t dislike Jesuits, however, their formation should not only be focused on theology but on Catholic virtues.
 
Historically, Jesuits have even been disliked in Catholic countries, for supposedly conspiring against the monarch or even orchestrating a monarch’s assasination (especially Henry IV. of France comes to my mind), so I guess they’ve been dealing with a bad reputation for a long time.
The modern bias MIGHT be due to some liberal tendencies, but my personal opinion is that this problem is a very American one that has its roots in the protestant dislike for Jesuits, combined with the anti-catholic sentiments that where so popular in the US during the late 19th century and were strongly connected with immigration issues, and, in some parts, are unfortunately kept alive.

Personally, I’ve studied at a SJ-run university, and was not taught “liberal” theology, neither are masses celebrated non-reverently. My doctoral advisor is seen as rather conservative among moral theologians, but alas, Germany is different from the US, so the SJ might be different in different countries. 😉
 
Can anyone explain where this (sort of/somewhat) anti-Jesuit thinking comes from? Could it be that some (or most) of the universities they have founded have become quite liberal? I’m a new convert but I always thought the “black robes” were really cool! :ehh:
Are you talking about Jack T. Chick? 😃

Based on my personal observation, some anti-Jesuit sentiments, both within and without the Church, can be traced to various causes. Wikipedia (yeah, I know, not a very good source, but still :cool:) sums it up quite well:

The Monita Secreta, also known as the “Secret Instructions of the Jesuits” was published (1612 and 1614) in Kraków, and is alternately alleged to have been written by either Claudio Acquaviva, the fifth general of the society, or by Jerome Zahorowski. The document appears to lay down the methods to be adopted for the acquisition of greater power and influence for the order and for the Roman Catholic Church. Scholars generally agree that the Secreta were merely fabricated to give the Jesuits a sinister reputation and it has become widely considered a forgery.

Henry Garnet, one of the leading English Jesuits, was hanged for misprision of treason because of his involvement in the Gunpowder Plot. The plan had been an attempt to kill King James I of England and VI of Scotland, his family, and most of the Protestant aristocracy in a single attack by blowing up the Houses of Parliament in 1605; another Jesuit, Oswald Tesimond, managed to escape arrest for involvement in the same plot.

Jesuits have also been accused of using casuistry to obtain justifications for the unjustifiable (See: formulary controversy; Blaise Pascals’ Lettres Provinciales). In English, according to the Concise Oxford Dictionary, “Jesuitical” has acquired a secondary meaning of “equivocating”. Modern Jesuits have also been criticized by many including Jack Chick, Avro Manhattan, Alberto Rivera, and the late former Jesuit priest, Malachi Martin.

Although in the first 30 years of the existence of the Society there were a large number of Jewish conversos in the order, a campaign by anti-conversos led to the Decree de genere in 1593 which proclaimed Jewish (and Muslim) ancestry, no matter how distant, an insurmountable impediment for admission to the Society. This stayed in force until 1946.

Within the Catholic Church, there has existed a sometimes tense relationship between Jesuits and the Vatican due to questioning of official Church teaching and papal directives, such as those on abortion, birth control, women deacons, homosexuality, and liberation theology.

However, the last two Popes have appointed Jesuits to notable positions within the Church. For instance, John Paul II appointed Roberto Tucci, S.J., to the College of Cardinals, after serving for many years as the chief organizer of papal trips and public events. In all, John Paul II and Benedict XVI have appointed 10 Jesuit Cardinals. Benedict XVI has appointed several Jesuits to positions of prominence in his curia, such as Archbishop Luis Ladaria Ferrer, S.J. as Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and Rev. Federico Lombardi, S.J., Vatican Press Secretary.
 
What you might perceive as anti-Jesuit feelings among Traditional Catholics is simply that they have (in general) strayed so far away from Church teaching and the charism of their founder so as to, in some cases, not even really be Catholic anymore. Most of the major Modernist and Neo-Modernist theologians were Jesuits (some were Dominicans) and many Jesuits adopted the Marxist “Liberation Theology” which, although condemned, still has a lot of influence in Latin America.

The blog “Good Jesuit, Bad Jesuit” both exposes the bad Jesuits seeking to undermine the Church and holds up the ideals of St. Ignatius as a model for good Catholics. Jesuits have done a lot of good over the centuries, sadly many modern Jesuits are a disgrace to their forefathers in the order. But there are still good Jesuits left, fighting to restore the charism of St. Ignatius and the good name of the Society of Jesus.
 
I was baptized by a Jesuit priest, who was a close friend of my father, and my life was influenced by Jesuits. All were honest, represented the true faith. There were persecuted for their faith and they were ready to suffer for their faith.

Also my experience is that the Enemy hates the Jesuts, and also the Enemy believes in the ‘calumniare audacter aliquid semper heret’ principle (smear boldly, something always sticks)

In other hand here I read the Magazine America and found it as representing a significantly different mentality.

My gut impression is that the Jesuits are military order, and the military always has problems in peace.
 
Some people are against the Jesuits because they say many of them have become liberal… I’ve never met any Jesuits so I can’t say. I’m sure that even if some have become liberal, others are very faithful to the Church. 🙂

However the old books that were written by Jesuit priests - such as those published by TAN publishers - are very good! and very traditional/orthodox. IF there is any liberalization, it would be something modern.

God bless
 
Can anyone explain where this (sort of/somewhat) anti-Jesuit thinking comes from? Could it be that some (or most) of the universities they have founded have become quite liberal? I’m a new convert but I always thought the “black robes” were really cool! :ehh:
Well, Protestants don’t like them because they played a pretty big part in the counter-reformation, and I think they view Jesuits as the strict and conservative Catholics (I may be wrong though). From Catholics, it’s because after the Vatican II they became more liberal, but now days I think they are getting less liberal. Some of their universities are liberal in the U.S (Loyola is pretty liberal I think, as is Georgetown), but some are still alright (I think Marquettes doing ok :)). Personally, I like them better than the Dominican Orders since I have Molinist/Congruist leanings (please go to the thread I started about it in the Philosophy section! :yup:).
 
Personally, I’ve studied at a SJ-run university, and was not taught “liberal” theology, neither are masses celebrated non-reverently. My doctoral advisor is seen as rather conservative among moral theologians, but alas, Germany is different from the US, so the SJ might be different in different countries. 😉
Or maybe you don’t know how to recognize liberal theology? It is true that Germany is different than the US.

What do you think about the Servi Jesu et Mariae? They were founded when P. Hönisch was kicked out of the Jesuits for being too orthodox. He intended them to be what the Jesuits used to be and still should be.
 
Thanks,Will, due to having studied at two different German universities and being abel to read different books, I think I can recognize liberal theology when I encounter it, unless you want to claim that only liberal theology is taught in Germany. Which would make the current pope a kind of lusus Germaniae.

About the Servi, I do not know any member personally so I can’t say much about it, but I think it has a valid spirituality of its own that doesn’t invalidate the charisma of the SJ. Many communities have decided not to incorporate the extraordinary form of the liturgy, and that doesn’t make them bad or less reverent. Different people, different preferences, and therefore a blessed multitude of religious communities within the church.
 
Thanks,Will, due to having studied at two different German universities and being abel to read different books, I think I can recognize liberal theology when I encounter it, unless you want to claim that only liberal theology is taught in Germany. Which would make the current pope a kind of lusus Germaniae.
The current Pope studied theology a long time ago. Then again, many people do consider him to have a liberal theology. Not unorthodox, but liberal.
 
So Germany has liberal theology? Surprising. I thought it was normal/moderate (which is the way to go :)).
 
The current Pope studied theology a long time ago. Then again, many people do consider him to have a liberal theology. Not unorthodox, but liberal.
I always thought people thought he was very conservative.
 
If you narrow the term “conservative” down enough, you can make St. Thomas Aquinas look liberal. But as the term is commonly used, I do think the current pope doesn’t qualify as liberal.
But the discussion about the liberality or lack thereof in German theology is rather worthless, as proof is hard to come by.
If you do not think me qualified to say anything about the status of the Jesuits in Germany, kindly ignore my posts.
 
If you narrow the term “conservative” down enough, you can make St. Thomas Aquinas look liberal. But as the term is commonly used, I do think the current pope doesn’t qualify as liberal.
But the discussion about the liberality or lack thereof in German theology is rather worthless, as proof is hard to come by.
If you do not think me qualified to say anything about the status of the Jesuits in Germany, kindly ignore my posts.
Why would I not think you qualified? You live in Germany! 🙂
 
WOW! :eek:

I didn’t expect that many responses in such a short amount of time!

I’ve always respected the Society of Jesus (even before I became Catholic) because they always seemed to be promoting Christianity, academics, etc. to the masses and making it available to the poor.

To quote Rod Stewart, “If I knew now, when I was younger…” I probabably would have stopped in Louisiana and talked to those folks. Instead, I stopped in New Orleans and partied! Alas…
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top