About the Sabbath day

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flower_lady

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I’m sure many of you are tired of this question because I have seen it posted many times, but now it has become an issue that I am not sure that I understand. I have read many times that the Sat., evening Mass that most people refer to as a vigil is actually the Sunday Mass celebration on Saturday. No more, no less. This error has led to many people forgetting what a vigil Mass actually is, and how it should be observed. There are only six vigil Masses each year, and they proceed Easter, Xmas, Pentecost, Ascension, Nativity of St. John the Baptist, and the Feast of Ss. Peter and Paul. This is what I have studied and believe is the truth. Now the bible does say that the Sabbath day is the seventh day of the week in which would be on Saturday. I know that I have been taught that Nobody not even Catholics are suppose to change what holy scripture says. Therefore how were we (Catholics) able to give people permission to go to church on Sunday especially if Saturday Mass is only Sunday Mass celebrated on Saturday, and as I read no more, no less. I would perceive this going to Mass on Saturday as not being legitimate. Or on the other hand going to Mass on Sunday would be sinful if we have changed the Sabbath day to Sunday, which is not when the bible tells us to worship. Wouldn’t that be as some protestants do? Like taking what suits us in the bible and applying it to our lives and leaving the rest there. I am so confused about this. And what really upsets me is that I am trying so hard to be a devout Catholic but simply can’t comprehend this. When people that belong to the SDA church ask me this I can never explain it to them. I also want to be sure I am doing as I am suppose to do because I mostly go to Mass on Saturday for no particular reason other than I like to. I thought it was perfectly fine. Now I am wondering if I should only go on Saturday if I couldn’t possibly get there on Sunday since it is just a substitute for Sunday. Sorry this is so long.
 
From the Catholic Encyclopedia:
…during the first three centuries practice and tradition had consecrated the Sunday to the public worship of God by the hearing of the Mass and the resting from work. With the opening of the fourth century positive legislation, both ecclesiastical and civil, began to make these duties more definite. The Council of Elvira (300) decreed: “If anyone in the city neglects to come to church for three Sundays, let him be excommunicated for a short time so that he may be corrected” (xxi). In the Apostolic Constitutions, which belong to the end of the fourth century, both the hearing of the Mass and the rest from work are prescribed, and the precept is attributed to the Apostles. The express teaching of Christ and St. Paul prevented the early Christians from falling into the excesses of Jewish Sabbatarianism in the observance of the Sunday, and yet we find St. Cæsarius of Arles in the sixth century teaching that the holy Doctors of the Church had decreed that the whole glory of the Jewish Sabbath had been transferred to the Sunday, and that Christians must keep the Sunday holy in the same way as the Jews had been commanded to keep holy the Sabbath Day.
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From the Catechism:
Sunday - fulfillment of the sabbath
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2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ’s Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man’s eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107
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Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord’s Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.108
2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.
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Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets giving to his Church the authority to decide matters of faith and morals. Since Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday the Church transferred the Sabbath obligation to Sundays. We are still keeping the Sabbath, we are keeping it in Christ on the 8th day–the new day of Sabbath rest.
 
Della said:
From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

From the Catechism:

Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets giving to his Church the authority to decide matters of faith and morals. Since Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday the Church transferred the Sabbath obligation to Sundays. We are still keeping the Sabbath, we are keeping it in Christ on the 8th day–the new day of Sabbath rest.
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Ok, I understand why the Sabbath has been changed to Sunday, but what about me going to Mass on Saturday. Why does that count for Sunday? I forgot to tell you thank you.
 
flower lady,
re: “Ok, I understand why the Sabbath has been changed to Sunday, but what about me going to Mass on Saturday. Why does that count for Sunday?”

The Biblical Sabbath of rest is generally considered to start at sundown at the end of the 6th day of the week and end at sundown at the end of the 7th day of the week. You might be ok depending on when your Saturday mass begins.
 
rstrats said:
flower lady,
re: “Ok, I understand why the Sabbath has been changed to Sunday, but what about me going to Mass on Saturday. Why does that count for Sunday?”

The Biblical Sabbath of rest is generally considered to start at sundown at the end of the 6th day of the week and end at sundown at the end of the 7th day of the week. You might be ok depending on when your Saturday mass begins.
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At one church I go to it is at 4pm, and the other is at 4:30pm. Is that ok? And I thought sundown was like at 6 or 8 in the evening. I guess they are not speaking literally. There is just so much to learn about the church. Thank you. One more thing, if there is a specific time for the Saturday Mass to start in order for it to be legitimate and that is sundown, why would a priest allow it to be any other time and jeopardize our souls.
 
flower_lady said:
Ok, I understand why the Sabbath has been changed to Sunday, but what about me going to Mass on Saturday. Why does that count for Sunday? I forgot to tell you thank you.
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From Jewish Tradition is where get this teaching. The Jews believed that the Sabbath technically started at Sundown the night before the Sabbath.

So, for Catholics, the Sabbath is ANY Holy Day of Obligation. So, the “Sabbath” starts the Sundown before (which is technically 4 o’clock the night before a Holy Day of obligation).

This is why you can go to Christmas Eve Mass and have it count for your Christmas Obligation.
 
I’m not sure that I follow, but basically - Sundays and Solemnities start the night before, from sundown. This is in keeping with Jewish liturgical tradition, where the liturgical day runs from sunset to sunset. Because of this, you can attend Mass on a Saturday evening, and have it count for your Sunday obligation - because, liturgically speaking, it’s already Sunday.
 
Della said:
From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

From the Catechism:

Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets giving to his Church the authority to decide matters of faith and morals. Since Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday the Church transferred the Sabbath obligation to Sundays. We are still keeping the Sabbath, we are keeping it in Christ on the 8th day–the new day of Sabbath rest.
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Uhmmm, Sunday is the FIRST day of the week. The week has only 7 days 😃 I totally agree with all the rest. 👍
 
Errham said:
I’m not sure that I follow, but basically - Sundays and Solemnities start the night before, from sundown. This is in keeping with Jewish liturgical tradition, where the liturgical day runs from sunset to sunset. Because of this, you can attend Mass on a Saturday evening, and have it count for your Sunday obligation - because, liturgically speaking, it’s already Sunday.
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Correct 👍
 
JerryZ said:
Uhmmm, Sunday is the FIRST day of the week. The week has only 7 days 😃 I totally agree with all the rest. 👍
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The 8th day is a way of saying that God’s final work, that of redemption, has been done, and so there is a new day in creation to celebrate it.

As to when the Vigil Mass can begin, that is up to the local bishop for sunset is not consistent around the globe. Some start sooner than others, but as long as the bishop has approved of the time on Saturday, it’s okay.
 
re: “The 8th day is a way of saying that God’s final work, that of redemption, has been done, and so there is a new day in creation to celebrate it.”

Just so it’s understood that there is no scripture that refers to the 1st day of the week as the 8th day, nor any scripture that says that the 1st day is to be celebrated or observed.
 
rstrats said:
re: “The 8th day is a way of saying that God’s final work, that of redemption, has been done, and so there is a new day in creation to celebrate it.”

Just so it’s understood that there is no scripture that refers to the 1st day of the week as the 8th day, nor any scripture that says that the 1st day is to be celebrated or observed.
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Catholics are not “people of the book” but rather people of Christ’s Church. Also, not everything is in the Bible. Many of the things Protestants believe and simply take for granted, such as the two natures of Christ, the definition of the Trinity, etc. are not explicitly stated in the Bible, which is not a book of organized theology, but rather the witness to God’s work among men in the patriarchs, prophets, and most especially in Christ and his Church. The 8th day is the new creation in Christ–looking forward to the new heavens and the new earth which Christ’s redemption has made possible.
 
Della,
re: “Catholics are not ‘people of the book’ but rather people of Christ’s Church. Also, not everything is in the Bible.”

I was merely pointing out - for anyone who thinks it does - that scripture never refers to the 1st day of the week as the 8th day, nor that it says that the 1st day of the week is to be celebrated or observed.
 
rstrats said:
Della,
re: “Catholics are not ‘people of the book’ but rather people of Christ’s Church. Also, not everything is in the Bible.”

I was merely pointing out - for anyone who thinks it does - that scripture never refers to the 1st day of the week as the 8th day, nor that it says that the 1st day of the week is to be celebrated or observed.
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Actually, the Scriptures do refer to the fact that the Church met on the “first day of the week” to pray and break bread together–because Jesus rose from the dead on the first day of the week, Sunday.

The Church has not abrogated the obligation to gather for worship on the Sabbath. Rather, the Church transferred the obligation to Sunday, to honor Christ’s resurrection, which fulfilled all the Law and the Prophets. Sunday is referred to as the 8th day merely because it follows the 7th day, Saturday. Not all we hold to must be found explicitly expressed in the Scriptures, which is why I cited that we are not “people of the book.” 🙂

Christ gave his Church the authority to decide all matters pertaining to faith and morals. Therefore, we follow what the Church determines is the mind of Christ given to her through the guidance and inspiration of the Holy Spirit, not merely by Scripture alone. If we did go by Scripture alone, the First Council of Jerusalem, as related in Acts 15, would have had no authority to decide the matters that came up before the Church, then, or now.
 
Della,
re: “Actually, the Scriptures do refer to the fact that the Church met on the ‘first day of the week’ to pray and break bread together–because Jesus rose from the dead on the first day of the week, Sunday.”

Actually, as far as scripture is concerned, there are only two times mentioned with regard to anybody getting together on the first (day) of the week - John 20:19 and Acts 20:7. There is never any mention of them ever again being together on the first. The John reference has them together in a closed room after the crucifixion because they were afraid of their fellow Jews. Nothing is said about a celebration, worship service or day of rest. And it couldn’t have been due to the resurrection because at that point they didn’t believe that it had occurred. The Acts reference has them together because Paul happened to be in town and he wanted to talk to them before he had to leave again. Nothing is said about praying, and the breaking of bread mentioned (even if it were referring to the Lord’s Supper) had nothing to do with placing a special emphasis on the first (day) because Acts 2:46 says that they broke bread every day.
 
rstrats said:
Della,
re: “Actually, the Scriptures do refer to the fact that the Church met on the ‘first day of the week’ to pray and break bread together–because Jesus rose from the dead on the first day of the week, Sunday.”

Actually, as far as scripture is concerned, there are only two times mentioned with regard to anybody getting together on the first (day) of the week - John 20:19 and Acts 20:7. There is never any mention of them ever again being together on the first. The John reference has them together in a closed room after the crucifixion because they were afraid of their fellow Jews. Nothing is said about a celebration, worship service or day of rest. And it couldn’t have been due to the resurrection because at that point they didn’t believe that it had occurred. The Acts reference has them together because Paul happened to be in town and he wanted to talk to them before he had to leave again. Nothing is said about praying, and the breaking of bread mentioned (even if it were referring to the Lord’s Supper) had nothing to do with placing a special emphasis on the first (day) because Acts 2:46 says that they broke bread every day.
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According to your interpretation of events. Sorry, Acts 20:7 clearly says they were gathered on the “first day” and “were gathered together to break bread.” It is referring to communal worship not merely to eating together. The Church still celebrates Mass every day. That in no way negates the obligation to worship on Sundays.

The Church existed before the NT was written and fully understands what it refers to in such passages and always has. You can believe whatever you want, but since Christ established his Church to decide such matters, we Catholics know what we believe /practice is right and proper. This is my final word on the subject, which the OP seems to have had the answer to which s/he had asked back in May.
 
Della,

The statement was made that the scriptures say that the church met on the first day of the week because the Messiah rose from the dead on the first day of the week. I was merely pointing out that there are no scriptures that say that.

re: “The Church still celebrates Mass every day. That in no way negates the obligation to worship on Sundays.”

Maybe so. But scripture can’t be used to show any such obligation because it is silent about it.
 
flower_lady said:
Ok, I understand why the Sabbath has been changed to Sunday, but what about me going to Mass on Saturday. Why does that count for Sunday? I forgot to tell you thank you.
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Its just a rule. A discipline of the Church, which Catholics follow. I can’t imagine God cares one way or the other. If the Church switched Mass to Wednesdays it would be inconvenient, but not theologically significant, at least to me.
 
The Church, celebrates masses anywhere she is present with and through a Priest, every single day.
365 days a year except on a leap year like this one when it will be for 366 days.

We the Laity are of course also, welcome, encouraged, invited, to participate in such masses if we can.
“The Church” has the “Power of the Keys”.
Not me, not a protestant pastor, nor any come late quarter backing interpreter of Scriptures.
She has set a rule, that ALL the Faithful, who are Catholic are to render Glory to GOD on the Sunday, the day our Lord Jesus Resurrected from the dead.

And being large, has further established that. if one cannot participate on the Sunday celebration proper, it is possible to participate on the “Vespers” of the Sunday.
Following the ancient tradition that the day, did not commence at midnight but on the setting of the sun the previous day.
She allows this “Vesper” liturgy to be said between 4:00pm and 7:00pm depending on the circumstances of each parish and by the authority of the corresponding Bishop.
As the previous poster pointed out if the Church mandated us to worship GOD for the Laity on a Wednesday, I would comply.
Remember SHE has masses every single day.

And the mass is the NEW SACRIFICE that abolished the old covenant, where bulls and heifers and doves and sheep, were offered in sacrifice to GOD.
Jesus is our Sacrifice, the only one that rescues us from our fallen condition.

…
 
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