About to be married - Daycare

[Youngcatholic]

puzzleannie:

don’t know why you are getting married if you are not planning to have kids right now, but I guess that is your business, or so DD would tell me.

It is not true that a couple not planning to have kids after the first 9 mos. have no business getting married. A couple can be ready for marriage and still use NFP to plan for the family a few years down the road.

 

[puzzleannie]

I did not make any comment or assumption about the means any particular couple might take to delay having children. I also noted that this is none of my business, but merely stated a fact, which is that I personally do not understand the reasons why couples marry if they are not ready to have children. I did not offer a criticism of OP, and I did not state that they have no business getting married, but merely shared a perspective from my (very old) generation. I can take any amount of criticism on what I actually say, so go after that, not what I do not say.

 

[solarwind23]

bookgirl:

My fiance and I are getting married in June. We’re not planning on kids for a year or two. He’s a teacher moving back from a small town to our larger one, and I work as an HR manager for my dad’s company. Here’s the problem: I make 70,000 a year, he makes 25,000. I want to be a stay at home mom, but I don’t want to try to live on a teacher’s salary. We don’t need an income as big as mine either, and it isn’t a priority to keep it that high. I was telling my sister just today that we were actually considering part time daycare. I could work part time, with an obvious salary reduction, and he would be off work by 3:30. She was horrified. She kept telling me that people who put their kids in daycare just don’t want to raise their kids and may as well get pets! I don’t want to put them in full time daycare just so I can keep a high paying job, and am not considering it. But she was adamant that ANY sort of working while being a mother is horrendous. This is the thing, her husband works for my father, and makes well into the three figures. They have a 400,000 house, brand new cars, etc. I realize she is still giving up a TON, she has four kids under the age of 12 and is an incredible mom, but she’s never had to face not having everything she and her kids needed or even wanted. I’m talking working enough to make at least in the 30,000 range, so we can still do things like send the kids to Catholic schools, let them take dance lessons, start college funds. I’m not talking about working so we can buy a house like hers. I asked what she would do in my situation and she of course said she’d make her husband get a different career (while also suggesting he work for my father in sales). He loves his job, and I think it’s an exceptional and admirable job, I want our kids to see their father the teacher, that’s home at 4:30pm, that loves what he does even though it doesn’t make him rich. She says “if that means putting your kids in a daycare AT ALL then it’s not worth it.”

The reason this is all coming up now is that in the next two years we’ll be making quite a bit more than we will in the years after that. We can and are planning on saving as much as possible. But we need to plan now, so we make decisions based on the financial situation that we’ll be in in the future. I’m torn about this, and want to do the right thing.

Please don’t listen to those people. I know a family, a very loving and committed family, whose children were in full time daycare throughout childhood. The children turned out very well. They are in a top school, made excellent grades, are very well off psychologically. The family is very well connected. The thing is that when the parents and children were home they ate dinners together, spent a lot of quality time together, went on vacations etc.

The mother of those children is an incredibly loving and devoted mother!

There is too much prejudice against daycare. Frankly I don’t know how you are going to make it on 25,000 a year. How will you put your children through college? If they don’t go to college the quality of their lives will be damaged quite significantly. If they have to work while in college their grades will suffer, their social life will suffer. How will you provide involvement in sports teams, music lessons, and all those other things that children need to develop well and fit into society.

As you said, you sister doesn’t work, enjoys a very rich lifestyle without financial struggles. Who is she to criticize you? If she does it again, you might want to point out to her that if she really wants to do the right thing she might want to downgrade her home to a 200,000 one, get a used car, and spend the extra money helping African children who have virtually no chance at having a good life. She has no business putting you down. Your husband is not in a position to support a family on a 25,000 salary.

Putting others down is just a way for people to feel good about themselves. I think that’s what your sister is doing.

I can tell you that my parents have 2 kids, my dad makes around what you make, my mom also works, I am the only one in college now (a public school with relatively low tuition), and we are just making it. When my sibling goes to college things will be tough for us. My dad is always saving, saving, saving, and money is always spent. We live in an average home, have one car which is fairly inexpensive. Even a public college is very expensive and my parents wonder how they will make everything work out for us.

We are not starving, sure, but our income is far more than 25,000. Something tells me your kids will be hurt far more by poverty than daycare, which I really don’t think they’ll be hurt by at all.

 

[solarwind23]

puzzleannie:

I personally do not understand the reasons why couples marry if they are not ready to have children.

Because they love each other, because they want to share their lives with each other.

Why do infertile couples marry? Why do post-menopausal couples marry?

 

[Kendy]

puzzleannie:

I personally do not understand the reasons why couples marry if they are not ready to have children.

Love? Companionship? Avoid sexual temptation?

Kendy

 

[Princess_Abby]

I interpret what puzzleannie said concerning the question of why couples marry who aren’t ready to have children to be a prudent consideration. Children are a natural fruit of marriage and can happen irregardless of the best planning, intentions and/or just-reasons-to-avoid NFP charting. If, for instance, a couple knew without a doubt that they could not afford children for at least two years’ time, under any circumstances, they might want to re-think the timing of their marriage or consider whether they want to sacrifice the marital embrace during that time period. Either decision would take a great deal of discernment and some spiritual advisement. I am not applying this to the OP’s situation, I’m merely saying it’s a reality of marriage: have sex, and we might have a child, so if we’re getting married, plan for the possibility even if the timing isn’t expected. It doesn’t make sense to get married if we know with certainty that providing for a child will be an impossibility, should the unexpected occur.

To the OP–I have found in my own marriage that our best-laid plans and desires often fall short to the wonderful blessings/life circumstances that God has planned for us instead. It’s good to strategize and have a game plan but just be open to the journey God intends for you–peace will be found in whatever His will is for your married life. There is not a cookie cutter answer to your worries. So pray, discern and don’t live your life according to your sister’s principles.

 

[Jennifer123]

My husband and I solely lived off his income while I still worked before we had kids. Everything I made went into savings, and we lived off his income as preparation. God will provide if you trust Him.

One of my good friends went through medical school and is now working 3 days a week FT while raising her new baby. It’s not ideal, she has a lot of loans to pay off and wants to be a SAHM, but she realizes the choices she made preclude that for a while. At least she can be at home 2-3 days a week until something opens up for her. Meanwhile the income she does provide for those 3 days is pretty helpful!!

 

[puzzleannie]

other posters like Abby have made a good point, that God has a way of stepping in and reminding us He has his own plans for us. OP is to be commended for doing something it seems many couples ignnore these days, namely discussing these issues before marriage, and planning for contingencies. Sounds like this couple is well on their way to good cooperation and communication, and are smart enough to realize that you can’t always impose your plan, but you can be prepared when the plan changes.

 

[Scanner]

I will add that daycare has really been villified by not only the Christian right in this country but other sects also.

In my opinion, this is purely a cultural value thing - sprung out of the idea of the “nuclear family” (an American ideal) and reminiscient of “homesteading” and adopted by Christianity, where a family moved out to a plot of land in the west, the father plowed the fields, and the mother raised the children. That was the community division of labor.

In other cultures, men and women do go off to “work” - men hunt and women gather and the children are cared for in settings by grandparents/elders. They grow up nutured and develop into functional adults. Grandparents of course, don’t play that role in our culture - their role is to, well. . . fill up cruise ships and migrate to Florida .

Seriously, it may sound cliche but “it takes a village to raise a child” is an appropriate saying to think of when you think of daycare.

In other words, it’s not a place where forgotten kids are left by irresponsible adults. It will be a place where friendships are formed, socialization is learned, academics fostered, and an appreciation of adult authority is gained.

Your husband being a teacher will be invaluable from 2 aspects though - great health benefits and over the years, and having the summers off will be of great help to you so it may not be prudent to have him be a stay-at-home Dad

As far as your sister - tell her to go pound sand and mind her own beeswax.

Charitably, of course.

It’s an interesting discussion, one that is broader than appears on the surface. One thing I will say is your greater income potential will make your relationship at risk for problems in the future. It’s becoming a greater and greater problem - women wanted to go out into the workplace and succeed.

And they did.

But in the end, it’s not what they really wanted - they also wanted to stay home and be a good mom and see their children grow up (so yes, that is the loss you will have). But by then, men had been displaced from many jobs in the workplace and now the traditional role of provider of the father/husband has been disrupted - if you want an average house (I think a 1/4 million in the US) in an averagely safe neighborhood with health benefit protection, 2 incomes is the norm.

What then I have seen happen, and I have much contact with a lot of people in my line of work, is the woman starts to subconsciously resent her husband’s lack of ability to provide well. Intellectually, they understand the problem but emotionally, they want to be at home with their kids and yet, when they are teenagers to be able to walk back into their career as if nothing had happened, that the world hadn’t changed.

I am not saying you are going down this line of thinking or will but just making a cultural commentary if anything. Pure generalizations (which I think are accurate).

It’s interesting to see what we are reaping after what our parents sewn in the 70’s.

As a Generation X member, I am actually starting to become more openly critical of the generation before me after receiving much criticism over the years as being spoiled. To me, the generation before “X” had the pill, they partied, they borrowed money like it was going out of style and now my generation and unfortunately, probably my kids will have to pay for what was sewn.

Sorry if I drifted the topic.

Good luck.

 

[bookgirl]

puzzleannie:

other posters like Abby have made a good point, that God has a way of stepping in and reminding us He has his own plans for us. OP is to be commended for doing something it seems many couples ignnore these days, namely discussing these issues before marriage, and planning for contingencies. Sounds like this couple is well on their way to good cooperation and communication, and are smart enough to realize that you can’t always impose your plan, but you can be prepared when the plan changes.

Thanks Annie, and I didn’t take offense at what you said, so don’t worry about that. Honestly, it’s health issues that are causing us to use NFP to wait (heck, I’m sure we’ll use NFP to get pregnant too). I love my sister and she’s my best friend. She actually admitted to me last night that some of her reaction was born out of jealousy. She does feel strongly about daycare, but is struggling greatly with staying at home and feeling unappreciated, void of any adult contact, and I’m sure somewhat like a maid. I think instead of dealing with her feelings and talking to her husband about them, she was telling herself that this is just what it’s like, and how it should be, and what SAHM go through. While I’m sure ALL SAHM go through that, I told her I don’t think that it’s something that she should feel guilty about feeling, or something that she couldn’t look for ways not to feel that way. So she’s been dealing with these feelings by telling herself that this is the way she’s supposed to feel, kind of martyr-like almost? She WASN’T asking for sympathy, I don’t mean it like that. But when she heard me actually considering daycare, it was like she heard me saying, “I’m going to have kids, but not go through all the work that you did, and I don’t feel bad about that.” When that’s obviously not what I was saying. She still feels very strongly about daycare, but has been a little less harsh since our initial conversation.

I had a good long talk with my fiance last night as well. Ironically after we went to visit my friend’s new baby, who he would NOT put down . He agreed that while we need to keep an open mind about what can happen, we also need to set priorities as a basis for our future decisions. So I took a lot of the advice I’ve gotten off of this post, and we had a great talk. We’re going to save like crazy, which is smart anyway, use NFP for the next year to the best of our ability, and accept what God gives us.

 

[solarwind23]

bookgirl:

She does feel strongly about daycare, but is struggling greatly with staying at home and feeling unappreciated, void of any adult contact, and I’m sure somewhat like a maid.

Well, there’s your answer for why she’s criticizing you. Misery loves company.

I sent you something in PM, you might want to show your sister.

 

[sanctareparata]

Scanner:

Seriously, it may sound cliche but “it takes a village to raise a child” is an appropriate saying to think of when you think of daycare.

In other words, it’s not a place where forgotten kids are left by irresponsible adults. It will be a place where friendships are formed, socialization is learned, academics fostered, and an appreciation of adult authority is gained.

I COMPLETELY disagree.

It does not and should not take a village to raise a child.

The other topics of socialization, academics and an “appreciation of adult authority” I won’t even touch on. :banghead:

 

[Scanner]

Sanctareparta:

Is to!

 

[gam197]

A teacher making $25,000 seems very low. The potential for more pay is there. It is a good idea to save all you can while you can.

I had children at a young age and it took all my energy to raise them and be a wife. Now I see my children working out of the home while owning a house twice the size of our family home yet with half the number of children we had and telling us they can’t afford to stay home.

Often I am called in to help because the day-care situation is so bad. They spend a fortune to keep both jobs. There is no time for any charity.

Birth to age five are the primary years for learning. How about the teen years?

I also think it may also have to do with females not wanting to give up what they has worked years in education to achieve. I don’t believe it is only about money.

 

[1ke]

bookgirl:

My fiance and I are getting married in June. We’re not planning on kids for a year or two.

Advice: start saving now, live on as little of your combined income as possible and save, save, save. Visit Dave Ramsey’s website and read his books.

bookgirl:

He’s a teacher moving back from a small town to our larger one, and I work as an HR manager for my dad’s company. Here’s the problem: I make 70,000 a year, he makes 25,000.

$25K seems low, depending on where you are. I know teachers in my old city, Houston, start at $35K and go up from there. If he has experience he should be able to make more. Of course, you don’t say if maybe he’s in private school or something.

At a minimum he should be able to get more than $25K and possibly do some private tutoring to increase his income.

bookgirl:

I want to be a stay at home mom, but I don’t want to try to live on a teacher’s salary.

Well, here’s the crux of this issue, n’est pas? You don’t want to try to live on a teacher’s salary. Why not? Fear? Debt?

You could at least try it and see what happens. Worst case-- you have to go back to work PT. If you don’t try you’ll never know.

bookgirl:

We don’t need an income as big as mine either, and it isn’t a priority to keep it that high.

But you still have something holding you back b/c you don’t want to try to live on just his income.

bookgirl:

I was telling my sister just today that we were actually considering part time daycare. I could work part time, with an obvious salary reduction, and he would be off work by 3:30. She was horrified. She kept telling me that people who put their kids in daycare just don’t want to raise their kids and may as well get pets!

Your sister in entitled to her opinion, but it’s a little extreme. I agree that daycare is not good for children, and I personally would not put my kids in day care even PT. But, you sister ascribes motives to every person who puts their kids in daycare, and that generalization cannot stand up to scrutiny.

The main thing is why you would seek to put your child in day care. And, you seem to be on the fence. I suggest reading the awesome book Feminist Fantasies by Phyllis Shaffly-- and then the papers and books she recommends in her book, related to daycare and its negative effects on children.

bookgirl:

I don’t want to put them in full time daycare just so I can keep a high paying job, and am not considering it. …

I’m talking working enough to make at least in the 30,000 range, so we can still do things like send the kids to Catholic schools, let them take dance lessons, start college funds.

I would suggest you look into all the things you might be able to do from home. You could take one or two children into your home as a small in-home child care business and make the type of money you are talking about ($5-$10K/year) without sacrificing the time with your own child. You an sell items on e-Bay, do home based sales, or put a talent/hobby to work as a business.

bookgirl:

I asked what she would do in my situation and she of course said she’d make her husband get a different career (while also suggesting he work for my father in sales).

Sounds like she has a hen-pecked husband. I do not “make” my husband do anything.

bookgirl:

He loves his job, and I think it’s an exceptional and admirable job, I want our kids to see their father the teacher, that’s home at 4:30pm, that loves what he does even though it doesn’t make him rich.

And there is no reason he should not pursue his chosen occupation while you are also a SAHM. It can be done, people do it every day.

bookgirl:

She says “if that means putting your kids in a daycare AT ALL then it’s not worth it.”

That’s her, not you. I agree that daycare is not desirable, I just disgree with her assessment of how to remedy the situation.

 

[1ke]

bookgirl:

The reason this is all coming up now is that in the next two years we’ll be making quite a bit more than we will in the years after that. We can and are planning on saving as much as possible. But we need to plan now, so we make decisions based on the financial situation that we’ll be in in the future. I’m torn about this, and want to do the right thing.

I suggest you do the research on the negative effects of day care (whether it’s relative care, nannies, in-home, or day care center) on children. I’d suggest you visit some websites on frugal living (and especially Dave Ramsey), and that you sock away $ to have an emergency fund and cushion.

But, money isn’t everything. Ultimately, you and your DH will make the decision on what is best for your family and your life. You will do fine. You sound like you have quite a level head.

And remember, you could stay home until the kids are school age, and then return to the work force PT without the day care issue.

 

[Akira79]

Bookgirl,
I can somewhat understand where you are comming from. I have two kids of my own (and only 27! ). My husband works in sales full-time, while I work as a cashier part-time. I would love being a SAHM, but I do enjoy my “time away” at work. My plus side is a little extra money for doing family things like a day in the mountins or spending a day Chuckie Cheese’s. I have one in school and the youngest stays with Nana or Paw-paw. Sometimes he is even with his Aunt and cousins (which he likes the best!). Maybe you should talk to your sister and see if she doesn’t mind. When my youngest was a baby, my Mother demanded to be the “daycare” till he reached 1 year old. The thing is, I don’t blame you for not wanting to wait long, neither did I, and I don’t regreat it. What I wanted was a loving, caring family and I have that now. Write down the choices you have for care and ask who you have on the list, or check out the daycares on your lists. If a daycare ends up the choice, make sure it is as close to work as possible.