About venerating images

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Let’s say you venerate an image of Jesus. Can you say that your veneration goes ultimately to Jesus? (Simply because of the respect you pay to the symbol: the image).

In what case would it be idolatry: if you worship the image, for itself, like the paper/plaster/etc?

Sometimes I get confused on this… thanks!
 
Here is my take. False idols are the problem. An image/statue that focuses your attention to Our Lord is not an issue. Kneeling before a statue of Mary while asking Our Lady’s intersession isn’t a problem either. Asking for her prayers isn’t worshiping her.

If one were to kneel before an image of John Paul II and ask him to work a miracle, that would be wrong. Asking him to join you in prayer in asking God the Father for a miracle would be fine.

As long as we indicate an awareness of who is Deity and who isn’t, we’re fine.
 
My understanding is that images need to be understood as a means to an end. They can help you, you just have to keep in mind that ultimately you venerate the image becasue of the reality it *signifies *, not the thing itself.
 
=Monica4316;10573849]Let’s say you venerate an image of Jesus. Can you say that your veneration goes ultimately to Jesus? (Simply because of the respect you pay to the symbol: the image).
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In what case would it be idolatry: if you worship the image, for itself, like the paper/plaster/etc?
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Sometimes I get confused on this… thanks!
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here dear friend is the RULE:)

IF the image is intended to bring one closer to Our God; it’s Good

IF the image in meant to compete with our God it is Evil:)

It’s NOT the image; but its intended purpose that is the critical point. It is “false gods” that are EVIL.

Exod.25: 18, 20 And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. [20] The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be

Num.21: 8-9 And the LORD said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live.” So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live.

God personally COMMANDED Moses to “make images”

But any image can be abused by those intending to do so; that too is a “false god”:eek:
 
Monica4316 said:
Let’s say you venerate an image of Jesus. Can you say that your veneration goes ultimately to Jesus? (Simply because of the respect you pay to the symbol: the image).

In what case would it be idolatry: if you worship the image, for itself, like the paper/plaster/etc?

Sometimes I get confused on this… thanks!
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Yes, this veneration passes on to Christ. This is why we are able to venerate images without incurring the sin of idolatry inasmuch as we do not worship the image for its own sake.

St. Thomas on the matter:
newadvent.org/summa/4025.htm
 
a refresher as to what idolatry truly is, as if I had a Catholic Dictionary, would be great…
It would be great owning a Catholic Dictionary, too…
Never got why the crucifix was considered idolatrous growing up
 
oh wait, forgot my heritage…

Definition of IDOLATRY from M-W:

1: the worship of a physical object as a god
2: immoderate attachment or devotion to something

and this is why I thought Protestants’ opinion on it to be silly growing up. And I was one.
It isn’t worshipping the crucifix. Being the silly humans we are, we need an image to remind of us of things.
We know He died for us. Seeing this reminds us better. Without worshipping the the object of the reminder. Yes?
 
=cheezey;10574170]a refresher as to what idolatry truly is, as if I had a Catholic Dictionary, would be great…
It would be great owning a Catholic Dictionary, too…
Never got why the crucifix was considered idolatrous growing up
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From Fr. Hardon’s Catholic Dictionary
therealpresence.org/cgi-bin/getdefinition.pl

IDOLATRY. Literally “the worship of idols,” it is giving divine honors to a creature. In the Decalogue it is part of the first commandment of God, in which Yahweh tells the people, “You shall have no gods except me. You shall not make yourself a carved image [Greek eidōlon, idol] or any likeness of anything in heaven or on earth or in the waters under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them” (Exodus 20:4-5).

The early Christians were martyred for refusing to worship idols, even externally, but practical idolatry is a perennial threat to the worship of the one true God. Modern secularism is a form of practical idolatry, which claims to give man “freedom to be an end unto himself, the sole artisan and creator of his own history.” Such freedom, it is said, “cannot be reconciled with the affirmation of a Lord who is author and purpose of all things,” or at least that this freedom “makes such an affirmation altogether superfluous” (Second Vatican Council, Constitution on the Church, 51).

Idolatry is always gravely sinful. Even under threat of death and without interiorly believing in the idol, a Christian may not give divine honors to a creature, thereby violating the duty of professing faith in God.

God Bless,
Pat
 
cheezey said:
oh wait, forgot my heritage…

Definition of IDOLATRY from M-W:

1: the worship of a physical object as a god
2: immoderate attachment or devotion to something

and this is why I thought Protestants’ opinion on it to be silly growing up. And I was one.
It isn’t worshipping the crucifix. Being the silly humans we are, we need an image to remind of us of things.
We know He died for us. Seeing this reminds us better. Without worshipping the the object of the reminder. Yes?
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does the bolded simplify it well??
 
thanks for the replies!

I was wondering… about kneeling before images… if we kneel TO God, but before an image because the image is a visual reminder, that’s okay? can kneeling be simply veneration, not worship?

I know people kiss images too. If I kiss an image of Jesus, is it right to want the veneration to go to Him? am I getting this right?

One poster also mentioned how it would be wrong to ask Pope John Paul II for a miracle… what if you ask for a miracle but intending that it would be obtained through prayer to God? for example… you need help, and instaed of saying to Mary “pray for me to the Father for this…” you just say “help me with…” but INTEND that she would help you BY praying for you to God, not separately from Him. Any thoughts?

I’m still learning about this…
 
Monica4316 said:
thanks for the replies!

I was wondering… about kneeling before images… if we kneel TO God, but before an image because the image is a visual reminder, that’s okay? can kneeling be simply veneration, not worship?

I know people kiss images too. If I kiss an image of Jesus, is it right to want the veneration to go to Him? am I getting this right?

One poster also mentioned how it would be wrong to ask Pope John Paul II for a miracle… what if you ask for a miracle but intending that it would be obtained through prayer to God? for example… you need help, and instaed of saying to Mary “pray for me to the Father for this…” you just say “help me with…” but INTEND that she would help you BY praying for you to God, not separately from Him. Any thoughts?

I’m still learning about this…
Click to expand...
Yes, the intention is what is important.

Asking the intercession of a Saint is asking for prayers for your specific intention. We ask the saint to pray with us, lifting our prayers to God the Father.

As long as you understand the concept of intercession, you may word it any way you like… “Help me” “pray with me” etc.
 
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