Abraham , Isaac, Jacob, Who?

[Jessup]

What is the passage in the bible, I believe it is in Luke.
Where Christ, speaks about looking up at Jacob , Isaac and Abraham and feeling sad from hell while they are all enjoying life in heaven. Maybe its the Lazerus story?
This just doesn’t hit home for me. I have no idea who these people are, and they have absolutley no meaning to me what so ever. Becuase I am not an ancient Jew living in the desert from 2000 years ago. Looking up at them having a good time doesn’t make me feel sorry for myself. Why on earth would Christ testimoney include this.
For people who are not Jewish. If anything it makes me just want to do the opposite from Christ becuase I cant’ relate to it
Anyway, Just throwing that out there. Becuase I don’t believe that much in God. and when I read things like this in the bible to try to connect and have a relationship with God it just aggrevates me; it compounds my disbelieve in the existance of Christ altogether.
Does anyone else find some of these passages to be meaningless?

 

[asd72]

The Old Testament is part of the Bible, so if you don’t know who these people are you better get reading!

 

[Razanir]

Abraham (formerly Abram)– He and his wife Rebecca were old and never had kids. Until one day God blessed them with a son,
Isaac– Son of Abraham. His story is that God once asked Abram (note the name) to sacrifice his only son (that son being Isaac). He was willing to, but two angels stopped him on the mountaintop and gave him two rams to sacrifice instead. After this, he changed his name to Abraham
Jacob– Had twelve sons. Don’t ask me to name them all; I only remember Joseph… as in the one with the technicolor dream coat/coat of many colors.

Edit: All three are from Genesis. Also, like pretty much everyone else in the Old Testament, they have meaningful names

 

[Joe_5859]

Abraham is our father in faith, so he should mean a lot to all of us. If it were not for his saying yes to God, there would be no Israel, no Chosen People, and no Savior.

If we find a passage from Scripture that does not resonate with us on a personal level (which happens to all of us from time to time), the best thing to do is to look at it as an invitation to further prayer, reflection, and study. It’s far more likely that we simply do not “get it” than that God didn’t know what He was doing.

 

[coachkfan1]

The Old Testament is part of the Bible, so if you don’t know who these people are you better get reading!

What this person said!

 

[Jessup]

Abraham is our father in faith, so he should mean a lot to all of us. If it were not for his saying yes to God, there would be no Israel, no Chosen People, and no Savior.

If we find a passage from Scripture that does not resonate with us on a personal level (which happens to all of us from time to time), the best thing to do is to look at it as an invitation to further prayer, reflection, and study. It’s far more likely that we simply do not “get it” than that God didn’t know what He was doing.

See you hit a hole in one, on the personal level statement.
 But the thing with me is , when ever I see them brought up, I really just want to throw the bible out. I feel ike its nonsense. Becuase in real life, these "chosen people "

(David, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob) more then likely would have treated me like garbage for not being one of them. It took me a while to accept St. Peter as a decent human being.
I think that if your a Jew living some time in the midst of Christ statement('s) this would be very powerful for the person recieving it.

 I think I just really hate the old prophets, I try to limit my bible reading to the new testement. Everytime I read about them it really sours my faith to be honest. 
  Where in the bible does it say that Christ wants people that arn't Jews to follow him? The closest I can find is Acts when St. Peter is in Greek empire somewhere and they treat him like God after a miricle.

Anyway, Cheers!

 

[Jessup]

I think the bible actully makes me more disgruntle then what it does bring medatative prayer and peace to my existance

 

[Joe_5859]

See you hit a hole in one, on the personal level statement.
But the thing with me is , when ever I see them brought up, I really just want to throw the bible out. I feel ike its nonsense. Becuase in real life, these "chosen people "
(David, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob) more then likely would have treated me like garbage for not being one of them. It took me a while to accept St. Peter as a decent human being.
I think that if your a Jew living some time in the midst of Christ statement('s) this would be very powerful for the person recieving it.

 I think I just really hate the old prophets, I try to limit my bible reading to the new testement. Everytime I read about them it really sours my faith to be honest. 
  Where in the bible does it say that Christ wants people that arn't Jews to follow him? The closest I can find is Acts when St. Peter is in Greek empire somewhere and they treat him like God after a miricle.

Anyway, Cheers!

Certainly, the Old Testament can be much more difficult for us to get a handle on, but please don’t throw it out! Here is what the Church says about it:

**The Old Testament **

121 The Old Testament is an indispensable part of Sacred Scripture. Its books are divinely inspired and retain a permanent value, [92] for the Old Covenant has never been revoked.

122 Indeed, “the economy of the Old Testament was deliberately so oriented that it should prepare for and declare in prophecy the coming of Christ, redeemer of all men.” [93] “Even though they contain matters imperfect and provisional,” [94] the books of the Old Testament bear witness to the whole divine pedagogy of God’s saving love: these writings “are a storehouse of sublime teaching on God and of sound wisdom on human life, as well as a wonderful treasury of prayers; in them, too, the mystery of our salvation is present in a hidden way.” [95]

123 Christians venerate the Old Testament as true Word of God. The Church has always vigorously opposed the idea of rejecting the Old Testament under the pretext that the New has rendered it void (Marcionism).

I would caution against speculating as to how the patriarchs would respond to you personally. Why do you think Abraham would treat you like garbage? If you read through the Old Testament, you see many examples of the Chosen People accepting “outsiders” (just read the Book of Ruth, for example). The prophets are full of references to God reaching out to the whole world through Israel (see Isaiah 40-55).

 

[Razanir]

See you hit a hole in one, on the personal level statement.
But the thing with me is , when ever I see them brought up, I really just want to throw the bible out. I feel ike its nonsense. Becuase in real life, these "chosen people "
(David, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob) more then likely would have treated me like garbage for not being one of them. It took me a while to accept St. Peter as a decent human being.
I think that if your a Jew living some time in the midst of Christ statement('s) this would be very powerful for the person recieving it.

 I think I just really hate the old prophets, I try to limit my bible reading to the new testement. Everytime I read about them it really sours my faith to be honest. 
  **Where in the bible does it say that Christ wants people that arn't Jews to follow him?** The closest I can find is Acts when St. Peter is in Greek empire somewhere and they treat him like God after a miricle.

Anyway, Cheers!

You have to realize that Christianity started as a sect of Judaism. Part of Acts is us becoming our own religion separate from Judaism

 

[Mike30]

There is one thing that you need to remember. Jesus was a first century Palestinian Jew. He was known as a Rabbi, a teacher and an interpretor of the Jewish Law as spelled out in the Torah, the first five books of the Old Testament. Jesus was thoroughly Jewish in every respect and quoted extensively from the Old Testament in spreading His Gospel.

To try to separate Jesus from His roots is to take everything He says out of context and by doing so you will invariably change His message. Unless you can see what He says in relation to the people He was speaking to, primarily other first century Palestinian Jews and not specifically to us in the 21st century, you will almost certainly misinterpret what was said.

To the first century Jew, Jesus’ words would have made perfect sense as He was speaking to them of their collective history and faith. His words would have had great meaning as He was in the process of fulfilling Scripture with everything He did or said. Unfortunately the great majority of Jews did not accept Jesus as their Messiah and so His message came to have more meaning to the Gentile populations.

 

[Jessup]

There is one thing that you need to remember. Jesus was a first century Palestinian Jew. He was known as a Rabbi, a teacher and an interpretor of the Jewish Law as spelled out in the Torah, the first five books of the Old Testament. Jesus was thoroughly Jewish in every respect and quoted extensively from the Old Testament in spreading His Gospel.

To try to separate Jesus from His roots is to take everything He says out of context and by doing so you will invariably change His message. Unless you can see what He says in relation to the people He was speaking to, primarily other first century Palestinian Jews and not specifically to us in the 21st century, you will almost certainly misinterpret what was said.

To the first century Jew, Jesus’ words would have made perfect sense as He was speaking to them of their collective history and faith. His words would have had great meaning as He was in the process of fulfilling Scripture with everything He did or said. Unfortunately the great majority of Jews did not accept Jesus as their Messiah and so His message came to have more meaning to the Gentile populations.

Agree with you 100% I think that is why I have such a hard time taking old prophets seriously. As I am not a 1rst century Jew, I don’t consider Ambraham any differnt then Gandolph. I just don’t think these “chosen people” really apply to me. Therefore I find it hard to take any message Jesus says seriously when he reference them in the new testement.

 

[Cat]

Abraham (formerly Abram)– He and his wife Rebecca were old and never had kids. Until one day God blessed them with a son,
Isaac– Son of Abraham. His story is that God once asked Abram (note the name) to sacrifice his only son (that son being Isaac). He was willing to, but two angels stopped him on the mountaintop and gave him two rams to sacrifice instead. After this, he changed his name to Abraham
Jacob– Had twelve sons. Don’t ask me to name them all; I only remember Joseph… as in the one with the technicolor dream coat/coat of many colors.

Edit: All three are from Genesis. Also, like pretty much everyone else in the Old Testament, they have meaningful names

Just a friendly fix–Abram’s wife was named Sarai, and when his name was changed to “Abraham,” her name was changed to Sarah.

I’m sensitive about this because my name is a derivative of the name Sarah.

Isaac’s wife was Rebekah.

Honest, everyone, the Book of Genesis is fascinating! I read it through when I was in 3rd grade, and understood most of it (although I didn’t understand why all the “begats” were in there–now I do–Jesus was descended from Abraham, and so it was important to make sure that His geneology was preserved accuracy. So if a little girl can understand the Book of Genesis, I know all of you can do it, too! Have fun!

 

[poche]

Maybe if you take the time to read the book of Genesis you learn who Abraham Isaac and Jacob were.

 

[HelenRose]

Agree with you 100% I think that is why I have such a hard time taking old prophets seriously. As I am not a 1rst century Jew, I don’t consider Ambraham any differnt then Gandolph. I just don’t think these “chosen people” really apply to me. Therefore I find it hard to take any message Jesus says seriously when he reference them in the new testement.

You poor child.

 

[HelenRose]

Just a friendly fix–Abram’s wife was named Sarai, and when his name was changed to “Abraham,” her name was changed to Sarah.

I’m sensitive about this because my name is a derivative of the name Sarah.

Isaac’s wife was Rebekah.

Honest, everyone, the Book of Genesis is fascinating! I read it through when I was in 3rd grade, and understood most of it (although I didn’t understand why all the “begats” were in there–now I do–Jesus was descended from Abraham, and so it was important to make sure that His geneology was preserved accuracy. So if a little girl can understand the Book of Genesis, I know all of you can do it, too! Have fun!

I love being a Catholic but I am sooooooo glad for my Protestant upbringing and love of the Old Testament.

I knew about Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph and Moses when I was ten. I memorized all the books of the Bible when I was 12. I learned and memorized several beautiful passages of the Bible.

How can anyone consider themselves educated without knowing the the basic history of our civilization.

 

[JerryZ]

What is the passage in the bible, I believe it is in Luke.
Where Christ, speaks about looking up at Jacob , Isaac and Abraham and feeling sad from hell while they are all enjoying life in heaven. Maybe its the Lazerus story?
This just doesn’t hit home for me. I have no idea who these people are, and they have absolutley no meaning to me what so ever. Becuase I am not an ancient Jew living in the desert from 2000 years ago. Looking up at them having a good time doesn’t make me feel sorry for myself. Why on earth would Christ testimoney include this.
For people who are not Jewish. If anything it makes me just want to do the opposite from Christ becuase I cant’ relate to it
Anyway, Just throwing that out there. Becuase I don’t believe that much in God. and when I read things like this in the bible to try to connect and have a relationship with God it just aggrevates me; it compounds my disbelieve in the existance of Christ altogether.
Does anyone else find some of these passages to be meaningless?

Ok, Abraham was the father of the children of God, we read that his descendants would be like the grain of sand in the desert.

From his son’s Isaac, Jacob was born (He is called Israel after he wrestled with an Angel for a whole night). He in turn had 12 sons that were the seeds for the 12 tribes: (Reuben, Simeon (Levi), Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, Benjamin, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Ephraim, and Manasseh). They were called the Israelites.
When all the people were taken into slavery to Babilonia after the first temple destruction in 586 BC 10 tribes disappeared and did not return to Israel when they where freed.
From Babilonia only returned to the promised land the tribes of Juda and Benjamin they settled in different parts of Israel and made the 2 kingdoms at the birth of Christ (Juda and Israel).
The other 10 tribes were not exterminated! They just eclipsed from the world stage and it is called the missing 10 tribes of Israel.
Who knows you could well be a descendant of one of those missing tribes.

Don’t you feel you should know a little better all the story of this people?
They were Jesus ancestors too!

 

[Ruthie_again]

Where in the bible does it say that Christ wants people that arn’t Jews to follow him?

Jessup, that’s what John 10:16 means. Jesus said,

And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd. (RSV)

And I think the story you’re thinking of is Lk 16:20-30. It’s not quite how you remembered it. (Happens to me all the time. That’s why I have Bible study software – I can sesarch the Bible to track things down, like I did above.)

(David, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob) more then likely would have treated me like garbage for not being one of them.

Maybe. But it would have been against the Law:

The stranger who sojourns with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God. (Lev 19:34, RSV)

Stick around, stranger. We’re glad you came.

If you’re a reader, try this book: Walking With God: A Journey through the Bible, by Tim Gray and Jeff Cavins. If you’re lucky, you can get it from your library. If not, it’s on Amazon, in hardback or Kindle. amazon.com/Walking-God-Journey-through-Bible/dp/1934217891/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1352512680&sr=1-1&keywords=Walking+With+God%3A+A+Journey+through+the+Bible

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

See you hit a hole in one, on the personal level statement.
But the thing with me is , when ever I see them brought up, I really just want to throw the bible out. I feel ike its nonsense. Becuase in real life, these "chosen people "
(David, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob) more then likely would have treated me like garbage for not being one of them. It took me a while to accept St. Peter as a decent human being.
I think that if your a Jew living some time in the midst of Christ statement('s) this would be very powerful for the person recieving it.

 I think I just really hate the old prophets, I try to limit my bible reading to the new testement. Everytime I read about them it really sours my faith to be honest. 
  Where in the bible does it say that Christ wants people that arn't Jews to follow him? The closest I can find is Acts when St. Peter is in Greek empire somewhere and they treat him like God after a miricle.

Anyway, Cheers!

I’m sorry to hear this. The Patriarchs are very important to understanding Jesus’ message of the Kingdom.

Look, God certainly worked through broken, flawed, fallible people. St. Paul was one of the greatest evangelists ever, yet before God intervened in a truly miraculous way, he was complicit in the stoning of Stephen and active in the persecution of the Church. I think that is one of the greatest things we can learn from the Scriptures-- that God can work through all of us, no matter how we mess up, He can accomplish great things. Anyway, the Patriarchs were not perfect, but I think they deserve respect for their obedience to God.

You can read the New Testament all you want, but until you gain a proper understanding of the Old Testament you will NEVER understand the New. I recommend you get a good study Bible (Navarre is excellent) and take the time to read Genesis. Or post a thread on this forum about Abraham, or Isaac, or whoever, so that we can discuss in full. What sours your faith so much? Abraham left everything to follow God. He trusted God completely with his life and the life of his son. He is truly the father of our faith and you mock him and say that to you he is like Gandolph? Here is something to think about. Jesus seems to have a high opinion of Abraham. You don’t. Who is more likely to have the proper perspective?

Where in the Bible did Jesus say He wanted people that weren’t Jews to follow Him? One example is Matthew 25:

18 Then Jesus approached and said to them, “All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go, therefore,* and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.* And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.”

 

[JerryZ]

I’m sorry to hear this. The Patriarchs are very important to understanding Jesus’ message of the Kingdom.

Look, God certainly worked through broken, flawed, fallible people. St. Paul was one of the greatest evangelists ever, yet before God intervened in a truly miraculous way, he was complicit in the stoning of Stephen and active in the persecution of the Church. I think that is one of the greatest things we can learn from the Scriptures-- that God can work through all of us, no matter how we mess up, He can accomplish great things. Anyway, the Patriarchs were not perfect, but I think they deserve respect for their obedience to God.

You can read the New Testament all you want, but until you gain a proper understanding of the Old Testament you will NEVER understand the New. I recommend you get a good study Bible (Navarre is excellent) and take the time to read Genesis. Or post a thread on this forum about Abraham, or Isaac, or whoever, so that we can discuss in full. What sours your faith so much? Abraham left everything to follow God. He trusted God completely with his life and the life of his son. He is truly the father of our faith and you mock him and say that to you he is like Gandolph? Here is something to think about. Jesus seems to have a high opinion of Abraham. You don’t. Who is more likely to have the proper perspective?

Where in the Bible did Jesus say He wanted people that weren’t Jews to follow Him? One example is Matthew 25:

God’s salvation of the human race did not occur in one instant it was a process and Jesus says of Himself “I fullfill the old law”
But if you throw away the Old Testament how can you know what He is talking about.
In fact the OT is a precursor of the NT, Prophecies are fulfilled. We can see how God worked with imperfect humans slowly guiding them to Him.
I bet it took so long because we keep resisting Him. Instead of trusting and say as Jesus said “Father Thy will be done”

 

[mercytruth]

Agree with you 100% I think that is why I have such a hard time taking old prophets seriously. As I am not a 1rst century Jew, I don’t consider Ambraham any differnt then Gandolph. I just don’t think these “chosen people” really apply to me. Therefore I find it hard to take any message Jesus says seriously when he reference them in the new testement.

Do you believe that idolatry is wrong? These patriarchs of the Old Testament were faithful not to worship the pagan idols of the people around them. The nations all around them worshipped gods that were dead objects of wood, stone and metal. This type of worship was oftentimes associated with demonic influences, witchcraft, sexual depravity and violence. The nations around them ordinarily did not understand the principles of justice and mercy.

Please read Psalms 145 and 146 if you want to read about the attributes of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob which were known to the pslamist 1,000 years before Christ. These attributes are far, far superior to anything ascribed to the pagan gods of Egyptian, Babylonian, Greek or Roman mythology. In fact it is the difference between light and darkness.

Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob worshipped our Creator, our invisible God and Father who is merciful, holy and just. Where would we be today if it was not for their faithfulness and the faithfulness of the OT prophets? Where would we be without the moral compass of the Ten Commandments given through the prophet Moses? We would be slaves to the depravity, darkness and sin associated with pagan idolatry.

It was very common for the catechumens of the early church who were converted to Christianity from pagan idolatry to be exorcised of demonic influences. I do not think most of us have an awareness of the ‘pull’ that pagan idolatry had on the human race before the revelation and deliverance that was given to us through the patriarchs and prophets of the OT and through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Those of us who are free from the pull of Satan can only thank God for the faithfulness of the patriarchs, of the prophets and of our Lord Jesus Christ.

God’s peace be with you

micah