Abraham Told To Sacrifice Issac

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No again.

We would teach that God would never have us kill our son, but he does ask us to sacrifice our sons and daughters all the time.

To kill another human being is a sin, except in the rarest of circumstances. Hence, except in the rarest of circumstances, God wouldn’t ask us to Kill our son.

And, as for whether or not we’d teach this that or the other thing, hopefully we turn to the Pope to define what we should teach, for his teachings (in specific circumstances) are infallible, mine are not.

CARose
 
Hello CA,

OK, then let me word it this way:

What I am saying is that we would go further and even teach today that God would never ask someone to sacrifice their son by killing as he did with Abraham, true? So, why is it understandable that God would do this in Abraham’s time? (If you mention the culture I’m still going to go cookoo :rotfl: ).

Thank You
 
I never presuppose that I know all that God would or wouldn’t do, and I don’t know that I’d like to teach specifically that I do know such a thing, unless I’m dealing with my first or second grade CCD class and I’ve just read this passage (although, I may have taught as you’ve suggested with the 6th graders last year).

God teaches what He wants when He wants. He asks what He wants, when He wants. We need to be cautious if we think God is asking us to do something “crazy” or “immoral” because it could be 2 things that would result in our doing something Crazy or Immoral that have nothing to do with God.

1.) It might not be God at all. There is a devil, he does exist and he and his minions can and do act on humans, even if their greatest accomplishment during the past century has been to encourage men to not believe they exist.

2.) You might not be properly discerning God’s will.

Does this help?

CARose
 
Culture!

There, I hope you can hold onto your marbles and not blame me if you lose them! 😛

CARose
 
Too late, I was already cookoo.

:rotfl:

So you think that our theology allows that God may ask someone to sacrifice their son similarly to how He asked Abraham?

I don’t think our theology does allow for this concept and that’s why I am having trouble with the Abraham story as a valid concept.

What I could understand is if Abraham considered sacrificing his son as others did but then God showed him it was wrong before he did it. I don’t understand God actually asking him to do it in the first place. Is it possible that it is just not worded or translated to get the correct sense of the story without more digging?
 
Greg,

I see what you are getting at, and can only say that I can’t give you anything more. I have pondered things like this before and must admit that there is always a bit of mystery left in the mix. The apostle Paul says in Romans 11:33-34 "O the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! " It’s pretty clear that we cannot know and understand everything. Perhaps others can get closer to a satisfying answer on this one. If not we may have to just be satisfied that there’s still some mystery that is beyond our current understanding.
 
Greg,

While it would be difficult to understand why God might might ask someone to do something “unreasonable”, God is not bound to reason as we understand it. And because He is All Powerful, there is no chance that simply by asking that Abraham sacrifice his son, that the deed could be done before God had the opportunity to intervene, if that was His intent from the beginning (as indeed it was shown to be, as demonstrated by the outcome of the story).

At that time in history, as has been pointed out numerous times already in this thread, human life was not recognized as sacred in the way that God has brought us to understand through the ages. We are slow students and it has taken us generations to get to the point of knowing this truth, and yet even now there are many who call themselves Catholic who don’t understand this basic concept. So, it is a message He has had to teach again and again, as early as with Abraham, when sparing his son.

God has not changed over time, but our understanding of Him has grown as He has revealed Himself to us in ever greater ways as we seek to better know and love Him.

God asks us to do His will, not only because we understand how doing His will makes sense, but sometimes simply because we know that it is His will. (e.g. accepting a teaching of the Church that we don’t understand, first and foremost because the Church teaches it, and then, over time because we have found the answers necessary to help us understand as well as we are able.)

Again, I say this urging caution if what is perceived to be “God’s will” goes directly against reason, the church, obedience to our vocation in life, against the laws of our nation, or against valid authority and there may be additional cases for caution I haven’t considered here.

For example, the sad case of the woman who drowned her children thinking God had asked her to do so. I don’t remember her name. Do I believe God asked her to do this? No, I don’t. Is it Possible that he did? I suppose so, I wasn’t there, with her, as a participant in what she believed to be a communication with God.

Did she fail in terms of the many cautions I’ve suggested? Yes, absolutely. It goes against the teachings of the Church (thou Shalt not kill, Jesus was the one and only sacrifice for the remission of sins) and the current teachings of the Church on this subject are not inconsistant with the known history of what God has given us in this area. It goes against obedience to her husband, the ultimate authority for a wife, according to Paul (one of those more difficult truths in today’s world). There is no evidence that her husband was suggesting she act in ways that were immoral with regards to the raising of their children or that her disobedience to him was in accord with a widely accepted greater moral right. It goes against the laws of the nation in which she lived, and the law to not kill is not against the basic laws given by God. And I would guess it also went against her family, her parents and other extended family members, if she were to have asked them. I’d even hazard a guess that if she’d asked her doctor (although I recall her doctor had dismissed her as not requiring additional care, despite her husband requesting it.)
So, if she had taken the opportunity to check in with any of the other authorities in her life, she would have been spared the pain of loss with which she and her family now live. At this point in history, Authority has come to be a dirty name, something to be disparaged, and yet here is an example of where if we, as a culture, better accepted authority as a concept, this tragedy may have been averted. She doesn’t seem to have had a spiritual advisor, but if she had one, it doesn’t appear that she double checked what she thought God was asking her to do, to get at least some form of feedback before proceeding.

cont …
 
… continued

We do know that Christ is the one and only sacrifice, so is it possible that God would request that a parent sacrifice their child. I don’t know how it could happen, but I can’t conceive of every possible scenario. How about if the son was in the process of commiting a henous crime and the only way to stop him was through the use of lethal force and in a moment of indecision you believe you hear God telling you to do it, kill your son, accepting the pain of this action as a sacrifice unto the Lord. Would this scenario be inconceivable?

Abraham existed in another time, another culture, another degree of man understanding the will of God. Gods were known to request human sacrifice, heck any self respecting God wanted the ultimate sacrifice. So wouldn’t Abraham’s God, the God of All Creation need such a sacrifice to demonstrate his incredible power, worthy of all Glory and Honor?

It seems that perhaps it was important that this question be settled absolutely, with no possibility of misunderstanding, by putting the question to someone who was primed to listen very closely to God, someone who had made wrong choices and was seeking to make the right ones for a change. Someone whom future generations would recognize as important (like Grandpa).

If Abraham knew God, and had demonstrated an abililty to discern the will of God, than who better to give such a request? But to make the point, God had to actually make the request, and then confirm that while he was powerful enough to make the request, he was merciful enough to not desire such an offering. And he loves us enough to be willing to provide the sacrifice, as Abraham so prophetically told his son, as they headed to the hill.

Speaking of which, did you know that this hill is the same location as what later became the Temple Mount in Jerusalem? Cool huh?

CARose
 
Thank You, CARose, Pax, ccav, and asquared,

I think I am starting to understand! Here’s my thinking!:

God chose to use the circumstances of the times. In these circumstances it would not be against moral theology nor social norms to sacrifice a child. At the same time, Abraham did not expect the true God to require the sacrifice of children. Therefore Abraham was surprised that the true God was asking him to do the same as the worshippers of false Gods. However, Abraham reasoned that the true God could raise from the dead and therefore Abraham’s act was indeed a marvelous act of faith!

I doubt we would expect or teach that God today would require this. Not because God has changed, but the circumstances of the times that God used to work for his purpose have changed!

God knows and expects that with our current moral knowledge a person who would sacrifice a child would rightly be prevented if possible. Therefore God (most likely) would not ask us to go against the very morals he has taught us. At the same time, we understand that God can do as He wills and all moral laws are subservient to His divine will. However, we would not expect God to work this way given our current circumstances and what God has revealed of Himself to us.

Thank you all! You were all pointing me there - I just didn’t fully discern and see the depth of it. No wonder children don’t understand the Bible ! 🙂 Or maybe they do and we get confused again as adults. As a child we say “wow Abraham obeyed.” Then we study for hours as adults and figure it out and say: “wow Abraham obeyed.” 🙂

All joking aside, I do have deeper insight now and I am most grateful to all.

Greg
 
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