Abraham's believing reckoned for righteousness

  • Thread starter Thread starter Erick_Ybarra
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
"The First Reading refers us to the episode in which God puts Abraham to the test (cf. Gen 22:1-18). He had an only son, Isaac, who was born to him in his old age. He was the son of the promise, the son who would also bring salvation to the peoples. Nevertheless one day Abraham received from God the order to sacrifice him as an offering.

The elderly patriarch found himself facing the prospect of a sacrifice which for him, as a father, was without any doubt the greatest imaginable. Yet not even for a moment did he hesitate and having made the necessary preparations, he set out with Isaac for the arranged place.

And we can imagine this journey toward the mountaintop, and what happened in his own heart and in his son’s. He builds an altar, lays the wood upon it and having bound the boy, grasps the knife, ready to sacrifice him. Abraham trusts totally in God, to the point of being ready even to sacrifice his own son and, with his son the future, for without a child the promised land was as nothing, ends in nothing. And in sacrificing his son he is sacrificing himself, his whole future, the whole of the promise. It really is the most radical act of faith. At that very moment he is restrained by an order from on high: God does not want death, but life, the true sacrifice does not bring death but life, and Abraham’s obedience became the source of an immense blessing to this day. Let us end here now, but we can meditate upon this mystery.

In the Second Reading, St Paul says that God himself has made a sacrifice: he has given us his own Son, he gave him on the Cross to triumph over sin and death, to triumph over the Evil One and to overcome all the evil that exists in the world. And God’s extraordinary mercy inspires the Apostle’s admiration and profound trust in the power of God’s love for us; indeed, St Paul says: “He [God] who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, will he not also give us all things with him?” (Rom 8:32).

If God gives himself in the Son, he gives us everything. And Paul insists on the power of Christ’s redeeming sacrifice against every other force that can threaten our life.

He wonders: “Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies; who is to condemn? Is it Christ Jesus, who died, yes, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who indeed intercedes for us?” (vv. 33-34).

We are in God’s heart, this is our great trust. This creates love and in love we go towards God. If God has given his own Son for all of us, no one can accuse us, no one can condemn us, no one can separate us from his immense love. Precisely the supreme sacrifice of love on the Cross, which the Son of God accepted and chose willingly, becomes the source of our justification, of our salvation. Just think that this act of the Lord’s endures in the Blessed Eucharist, and in his heart, for eternity, and this act of love attracts us, unites us with him."

–Pope Benedict XVI

(from vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2012/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20120304_torrino_en.html)
 
As far as whether I know if the faith that I am teaching is right or wrong or if the interpretation of the passage is right or wrong, we have the Scripture itself which is written to human beings. We probably cannot read it nearly as good as the first recipients, but we have some basis to understand some major portions of it. On top of this, we have tradition. We have the early Church fathers, other heretical writings, the 7 councils,etc,etc…
Great so you can’t tell me your interpretation is any better than mine. “We have tradition.” Tell me what Church continued this tradition for us to have it?

The truth Erick is you have none of this but your own interpretation of scriptures tradition and councils. To prove this all you need to do is answer me this.

Who do you summit to? Scripture tells us to summit to those who have authority over us. (Heb 13:17) “Obey them that have authority over you, and summit yourself…”

Who do you summit to Erick?
I should have specified. I am referring to the repentance that is needed concerning the elevation of Mary and it’s creation out of post-apostolic gathering of fragmented material, all dating many years after the 3rd century; I am referring to the repentance on their teachings in the council of Trent; and that they return to the original witness of the gospel
*Elevation of Mary helped defend against some of those heretical writings Erick!
I would like to get back to the main topic here.
Erick we have been on this topic some threads now. You will not change your mind because you are your own authority and summit to none. You haven’t come here to understand Catholicism; you already know Erick!*

My job here is to let you know you have no way of knowing if your right and we are wrong. Yourself but that’s rather arrogant don’t you think?*
I’m sorry the pope here pays almost no attention to the sacrifice of Jesus. Quite unlike the apostolic voices.
I haven’t mentioned purgatory Erick, but you know what I believe it!!!

You have not mentioned*altar calls, vacation Bible schools, aggressive bus ministries, personal interpretation of the Scripture, vernacular Bibles, or any evidence of a democratic church order either. Guess you don’t believe in those things do you Erick?
 
Meaning the thief on the cross is in heaven as well as mother theresa
Hummm…who says the Catholic Church would not say that the “thief on the cross is in heaven as well as mother theresa”

Such is not contrary to the Teaching of the Catholic Church.

But rather accords with it.
 
the sacrifice of Jesus. .
"The First Reading refers us to the episode in which God puts Abraham to the test (cf. Gen 22:1-18). He had an only son, Isaac, who was born to him in his old age. He was the son of the promise, the son who would also bring salvation to the peoples. Nevertheless one day Abraham received from God the order to sacrifice him as an offering.

The elderly patriarch found himself facing the prospect of a sacrifice which for him, as a father, was without any doubt the greatest imaginable. Yet not even for a moment did he hesitate and having made the necessary preparations, he set out with Isaac for the arranged place.

And we can imagine this journey toward the mountaintop, and what happened in his own heart and in his son’s. He builds an altar, lays the wood upon it and having bound the boy, grasps the knife, ready to sacrifice him. Abraham trusts totally in God, to the point of being ready even to sacrifice his own son and, with his son the future, for without a child the promised land was as nothing, ends in nothing. And in sacrificing his son he is sacrificing himself, his whole future, the whole of the promise. It really is the most radical act of faith. At that very moment he is restrained by an order from on high: God does not want death, but life, the true sacrifice does not bring death but life, and Abraham’s obedience became the source of an immense blessing to this day. Let us end here now, but we can meditate upon this mystery.

In the Second Reading, St Paul says that God himself has made a sacrifice: he has given us his own Son, he gave him on the Cross to triumph over sin and death, to triumph over the Evil One and to overcome all the evil that exists in the world. And God’s extraordinary mercy inspires the Apostle’s admiration and profound trust in the power of God’s love for us; indeed, St Paul says: “He [God] who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, will he not also give us all things with him?” (Rom 8:32).

If God gives himself in the Son, he gives us everything. And Paul insists on the power of Christ’s redeeming sacrifice against every other force that can threaten our life.

He wonders: “Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies; who is to condemn? Is it Christ Jesus, who died, yes, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who indeed intercedes for us?” (vv. 33-34).

We are in God’s heart, this is our great trust. This creates love and in love we go towards God. If God has given his own Son for all of us, no one can accuse us, no one can condemn us, no one can separate us from his immense love. Precisely the supreme sacrifice of love on the Cross, which the Son of God accepted and chose willingly, becomes the source of our justification, of our salvation. Just think that this act of the Lord’s endures in the Blessed Eucharist, and in his heart, for eternity, and this act of love attracts us, unites us with him."

–Pope Benedict XVI

(from vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2012/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20120304_torrino_en.html)
 
Meaning the thief on the cross is in heaven as well as mother theresa
“…the so-called “Good Thief” straight away receives forgiveness and the joy of entering the Kingdom of Heaven. “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise” (Lk 23:43)”

Pope Benedict XVI (21 November 2010)
 
Great so you can’t tell me your interpretation is any better than mine. “We have tradition.” Tell me what Church continued this tradition for us to have it?

The truth Erick is you have none of this but your own interpretation of scriptures tradition and councils. To prove this all you need to do is answer me this.

Who do you summit to? Scripture tells us to summit to those who have authority over us. (Heb 13:17) “Obey them that have authority over you, and summit yourself…”

Who do you summit to Erick?

*Elevation of Mary helped defend against some of those heretical writings Erick!

Erick we have been on this topic some threads now. You will not change your mind because you are your own authority and summit to none. You haven’t come here to understand Catholicism; you already know Erick!*

My job here is to let you know you have no way of knowing if your right and we are wrong. Yourself but that’s rather arrogant don’t you think?*
I haven’t mentioned purgatory Erick, but you know what I believe it!!!

You have not mentioned*altar calls, vacation Bible schools, aggressive bus ministries, personal interpretation of the Scripture, vernacular Bibles, or any evidence of a democratic church order either. Guess you don’t believe in those things do you Erick?
I don’t believe in altar calls. Your right.
 
I believe this.
But I deny a process to our being forgiven and blameless before God. Meaning the thief on the cross is in heaven as well as mother theresa
“the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe” (Romans 3:22)

So you deny the above scripture passage from St Paul? That we do not need faith in Christ to be justified? The thief on the cross made a profession of faith in Christ. Christ made the atonement for us on the cross but it requires faith in Christ on our part to receive the gift of justification ( this is the process) as Paul says again here:
“They are justified freely by his grace through the redemption in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as an expiation,* through faith, by his blood” (Romans 3:24-25).

Do you not think that an adult is not already going through a process of justification by cooperating with the grace of the Holy Spirit before he actually receives baptism?
 
I believe faith, not good works, receives the justification from the cross.

Also at the moment I submit to the apostolic voice that was written by human beings for human beings. Understanding them is not always hard.
 
I believe faith, not good works, receives the justification from the cross.

.
Good works do not bring one into a state of being Justified. As Paul says it is through “faith” not “works”.

Yes it is from the cross and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Yes it is through faith and baptism (though yes some may not make it to baptism…like the thief).
 
“Precisely the supreme sacrifice of love on the Cross, which the Son of God accepted and chose willingly, becomes the source of our justification, of our salvation.”

–Pope Benedict XVI
 
Can anyone find a scripture, context, or summary from the NT that teaches that justification is a life-long process? And can anyone find a Early Church Father who also taught this?
Once justified or sanctified in baptism, a christian should grow in sanctification through good works.

“For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, virtue with knowledge, knowledge with self-control, self-control with endurance, endurance with devotion, devotion with mutual affection, mutual affection with love. If these are yours and increase in abundance, they will keep you from being idle or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. Anyone who lacks them is blind and shortsighted, forgetful of the cleansing of his past sins. Therefore, brothers, be all the more eager to make your call and election firm, for, in doing so, you will never stumble. For, in this way, entry into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ will be richly provided for you.” (2 Peter 1: 5-11).

“It is not that I have already taken hold of it or have already attained perfect maturity, but I continue my pursuit in hope that I may possess it, since I have indeed been taken possession of by Christ [Jesus].” (Phillipians 3:12)

“until we all attain to the unity of faith and knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the extent of the full stature of Christ, so that we may no longer be infants, tossed by waves and swept along by every wind of teaching arising from human trickery, from their cunning in the interests of deceitful scheming. Rather, living the truth in love, we should grow in every way into him who is the head, Christ.” (Ephesians 4:13-15).

“Although you should be teachers by this time, you need to have someone teach you again the basic elements of the utterances of God. You need milk, [and] not solid food. Everyone who lives on milk lacks experience of the word of righteousness, for he is a child. But solid food is for the mature, for those whose faculties are trained by practice to discern good and evil.” (Hebrews 5:12-14)

“Therefore, let us leave behind the basic teaching about Christ and advance to maturity.” (Hebrews 6:1).

"The righteous must still do right, and the holy still be holy.” (Revelations 22:11)

“It will be as when a man who was going on a journey* called in his servants and entrusted his possessions to them. 15To one he gave five talents;* to another, two; to a third, one—to each according to his ability. Then he went away. Immediately 16the one who received five talents went and traded with them, and made another five. 17Likewise, the one who received two made another two. 18* But the man who received one went off and dug a hole in the ground and buried his master’s money. 19After a long time the master of those servants came back and settled accounts with them. 20The one who had received five talents came forward bringing the additional five.* He said, ‘Master, you gave me five talents. See, I have made five more.’ 21d His master said to him, ‘Well done, my good and faithful servant. Since you were faithful in small matters, I will give you great responsibilities. Come, share your master’s joy.’ 22[Then] the one who had received two talents also came forward and said, ‘Master, you gave me two talents. See, I have made two more.’ 23His master said to him, ‘Well done, my good and faithful servant. Since you were faithful in small matters, I will give you great responsibilities. Come, share your master’s joy.’ 24Then the one who had received the one talent came forward and said, ‘Master, I knew you were a demanding person, harvesting where you did not plant and gathering where you did not scatter; 25so out of fear I went off and buried your talent in the ground. Here it is back.’ 26His master said to him in reply, ‘You wicked, lazy servant!* So you knew that I harvest where I did not plant and gather where I did not scatter? 27Should you not then have put my money in the bank so that I could have got it back with interest on my return? 28Now then! Take the talent from him and give it to the one with ten. 29* e For to everyone who has, more will be given and he will grow rich; but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30* And throw this useless servant into the darkness outside, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth (Matthew 25: 14-30).
 
Thank you for those passages. The one from 1 Peter especially.

I also have understood that “justification” (the status of being just before God) is something that something that requires perseverance in order to keep until the day of judgement. (Colossians 2).
 
Thank you for those passages. The one from 1 Peter especially.
I also have understood that “justification” (the status of being just before God) is something that something that requires perseverance in order to keep until the day of judgement. (Colossians 2).
Your very welcome and yes perseverance is required.
 
Your very welcome and yes perseverance is required.
True. As St. Paul says repeatedly to have hope…hopeful confidence but not false assurance, saying that we should work out our salvation in fear and trembling (Phillipians 2).

Matthew 7 says we are not to judge others. I understand that to include ourselves as found in St. Paul’s repeated “hope”. Whether I am saved is God’s decision as the Just God at the final judgment.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top