Absent from the body, present with the Lord

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I would be interested in a Catholic explanation of Purgatory in light of 2 Conrintians 5:8.

This passage seems to suggest that for a Christian, death means immediately entering Christ’s presence. I think I can come up with a plausible explanation, but I would rather hear yours.

Thanks,

Mel
 
This passage seems to suggest that for a Christian, death means immediately entering Christ’s presence.
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For SOME Christians, this is certainly true. However, nothing unholy enters heaven. So, unless you die completely sanctified (as I believe the first martyr, St. Stephen did, or example), then you’re likely to need some purification prior to entry into heaven. Catholics call this process of purification “purgation” and the state of purification “purgatory.” We believe that such purification will involve suffering. We believe that it is holy and just to pray for mercy for those enduring such suffering. Yet, every soul in purgatory are among the elect, bound for heaven.
 
it was discussed in earlier threads… i would say to anyone who is stuck ON purgatory as opposed to stuck in purgatory 😃

It is scriptural, it is traditional, and it is logical… you don’t have to believe… (if not catholic)…

for those that do believe no explanation is necessary, and for those that don’t believe there is no explanation… peace… 👍

and not wanting to appear as to have sidestepped your question, how do i respond to—2 Corinthians 5
8We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord… well, Scripture teaches that purgatory exists, even if it doesn’t use that word and even if 1 Peter 3:19 refers to a place other than purgatory.

Christ refers to the sinner who “will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come” (Matt. 12:32), suggesting that one can be freed after death of the consequences of one’s sins. Similarly, Paul tells us that, when we are judged, each man’s work will be tried. And what happens if a righteous man’s work fails the test? “He will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire” (1 Cor 3:15). Now this loss, this penalty, can’t refer to consignment to hell, since no one is saved there; and heaven can’t be meant, since there is no suffering (“fire”) there. The Catholic doctrine of purgatory alone explains this passage.

Then, of course, there is the Bible’s approval of prayers for the dead: “In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the dead to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin” (2 Macc. 12:43–45). Prayers are not needed by those in heaven, and no one can help those in hell. That means some people must be in a third condition, at least temporarily. This verse so clearly illustrates the existence of purgatory that, at the time of the Reformation, Protestants had to cut the books of the Maccabees out of their Bibles in order to avoid accepting the doctrine.

and on and on… remember you don’t have to believe… 👍
 
This part of the Bible is talking about our walk with Christ. If I am faithful I will end up in heaven. There is nothing here that contradicts Catholic teaching. And I am sure you would agree, the Bible must be taken together as a whole. There are many Scriptures that talk about purgatory. This just is not one of them.

God Bless
 
There various degrees of meaning of “with the Lord” besides the full Beatific Vision. The souls in purgatory do not yet see God face to face, but that does not mean they are not with Him. I have heard purgatory described as the fire of God’s love that burns away our sin.
 
Yes, we can be with the Lord right here on Earth. At Mass, at Eucharistic Adoration, at prayer, we are already with the Lord. The souls in purgatory are with the Lord but like us, do not yet enjoy the full beatific vision.

JimG
 
I don’t think you can interpret this verse in a strict literalistic sense. For example. people in hell are absent from their bodies, but they are obviously not in the direct presence of the Lord.
 
Corithians 5:8 * We are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.*

This verse doesn’t seem to address the existence of purgatory in at all. It seems, instead, to only address our desire to be with God in our heavenly home as opposed to our current earthly existence.
 
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Pax:
Corithians 5:8 * We are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.*

This verse doesn’t seem to address the existence of purgatory in at all. It seems, instead, to only address our desire to be with God in our heavenly home as opposed to our current earthly existence.
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Well said, Pax. Since hell is not mentioned, are we to assume that Paul does not believe in the existence of hell, either?

He’s expressed a preference. I would agree with Paul’s choice, as well. Don’t you?

Peace in Christ…Salmon
 
But here are a couple of verses that do refer to purgatory.

Mt. 5:48 tells us to be perfect as our Father is perfect
James 3:2 tells us we all fall short in many respects
yet Rev 21:27 says nothing unclean shall enter heaven

If all of these verses are equally true, How can this all be resolved?
Scared Tradition along with Sacred Scripture say purgatory.
 
As a few others have been pointing out, this verse does not imply nor state the popular Protestant slogan “to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.” This was Paul’s desire but never did He say that it was the only option he had. As one person posted, those in hell aren’t “present with the Lord” in the sense that Paul is speaking of. So this verse does not deny the possibility of purgatory.

Also, the Catholic teaching on Purgatory the souls of the martyrs or those holy souls after death are not purged but rather ascend immediately to heaven. Etc. etc. for the Catholic teaching.
 
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MariaG:
But here are a couple of verses that do refer to purgatory.

Mt. 5:48 tells us to be perfect as our Father is perfect
James 3:2 tells us we all fall short in many respects
yet Rev 21:27 says nothing unclean shall enter heaven

If all of these verses are equally true, How can this all be resolved?
Scared Tradition along with Sacred Scripture say purgatory.
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I am not arguing against Purgatory, but I don’t see how you can find it in any of these verses. I could answer each with “Christ makes us clean by His atonement”.

Mel
 
The full verse says “I would **rather **be absent from the body and present with the Lord.”

I would rather be at Disneyland than at work, but that by no means implies those are the only two places I can be. A subtle change in scripture can really skew up the meaning.
 
Good replies all. Thank you for your explanations. I think I agree with all of your basic premises about the nature or this verse.

Mel
 
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