Absent Priest, Valid Mass?

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Emile_McKenzie said:
The Church without a Pope is like a snake without a head - there is no guidance or direction whatsoever.

If there is a theological dispute between Sede bishops then how is the matter resolved? For instance, if X sede bishop disagrees with Y bishop on whether Feeneyism is a heresy, what final authority is there is to resolve the dilemma?
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Feenyism has already been condemned.

But wait await the end of the Crisis and the election of a valid pope.
 
Emile_McKenzie said:
The Church without a Pope is like a snake without a head - there is no guidance or direction whatsoever.

If there is a theological dispute between Sede bishops then how is the matter resolved? For instance, if X sede bishop disagrees with Y bishop on whether Feeneyism is a heresy, what final authority is there is to resolve the dilemma?
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Feenyism has already been condemned.

But we await the end of the Crisis and the election of a valid pope.
 
Sbyvl said:
So you admit that you are against Pope Blessed Pius IX, then?

The substance of my statements are not Protestant, whereas, your heresies are. I’m not a Modernist, you are.
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I am for every Pope which includes all of the Popes after Pius IX and that is why I am Catholic and not in a group that think what you think.
 
robwar said:
I am for every Pope which includes all of the Popes after Pius IX and that is why I am Catholic and not in a group that think what you think.
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You realize that you are contradicting yourself, right?
 
jediliz said:
the only abuse seems to be that a woman led the service (I say service, NOT Mass). My parents went to Utah once on a trip for just the two of them (actually it was several states, they were in Utah for sunday). Anyway, they went to a Communion service but it was led by a deacon (with already concentrated hosts). Though I think they said he joked it was more like a Mass since there was a collection. Since Utah is mostly MORMON country and they were in a national park at the time(I think) it was in place of the sunday obligation since getting to a regular Mass was not possible.

btw, Sbyvl, do you also consider Saint John Paul the 2nd an anti pope? Though he was ordained BEFORE Vatican II, he was made pope AFTER Vatican II.
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Women are allowed to lead Communion Services in the RCC. The liturgical book describing the ceremony is “Holy Communion and the Worship of the Eucharist Outside of Mass”.
 
Sbyvl said:
This is beyond sacrilegious. First of all, a woman has no business running a prayer service of ANY KIND. They are to remain silent in the churches (1 Timothy 2:12). Further, this would not fulfill your Sunday Mass requirement, as it is not a Mass. My advice is to find a valid Mass said by a priest with valid orders.
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Seriously? Weekday Communion Services are increasingly common in one-priest parishes on the pastor’s day off. They are a valid liturgy, preferably to be led by a deacon, but can be led by a layman or laywoman. The Hosts are those consecrated at a prior Mass. It is not a simulation of a Mass and there is no Eucharistic Prayer. There is even an approved ritual for “Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest.” Of course Mass is the obligation, but in rural areas where no priest is available, the obligation does not obtain and in such a service at least the faithful have the benefit of Scripture and the Eucharist.
 
As far as the OP goes, the service he attended sounds like it was within the rules of the Church and he recieved Our Lord in the Eucharist.
 
youkokun said:
Thank you everyone for your thoughtful responses.

I am going to tomorrow’s evening mass. It’ll be Saturday vigil, so they HAVE to have a priest there, and bonus, there will be music! 😛
…

So if I get this straight, this was technically a valid Communion service and it really was Jesus I partook of, but another go would never hurt.
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A note about going to weekly mass…
our obligation is that we are actually “performing the sacrifice with the Priest” - we are in the person of the disciples and the Priest in the person of Jesus, so that the Event is really happening, Jesus offering himself in a covenant sacrifice to his Father, and giving his body and blood to his disciples to eat and drink and thereby sealing the covenant. God accepts it, we accept it, and we are in covenant union with him as his people, his family. We must be there, so that Jesus can say to us, “take and eat, take and drink”, or else he would be talking to no one.

John Martin
 
Heismysword said:
A Communion service can fulfill your weekly obligation. There are several parishes in my area that end up having to have one or two a year when there is no priest available.
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No it can’t. Only attending Mass fulfills out Sunday obligation to attend Mass, NOT a communion service. If it is not possible for a Sunday Mass at a parish be cause there is no priest available, but if you can get to Mass at another parish (even if it’s a different rite or in another language) you are obligated to go to Mass there. If one cannot realistically attend Mass on Sunday, the obligation to attend Mass on Sunday is lifted.
 
Deo_Gratias42 said:
No it can’t. Only attending Mass fulfills out Sunday obligation to attend Mass, NOT a communion service. If it is not possible for a Sunday Mass at a parish be cause there is no priest available, but if you can get to Mass at another parish (even if it’s a different rite or in another language) you are obligated to go to Mass there. If one cannot realistically attend Mass on Sunday, the obligation to attend Mass on Sunday is lifted.
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I have heard it said to be Catholic you only have to fulfill your ‘Easter duty’ - receive the Eucharist once a year at Easter.
 
minkymurph said:
I have heard it said to be Catholic you only have to fulfill your ‘Easter duty’ - receive the Eucharist once a year at Easter.
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You have most definitely heard wrong. We must also attend Mass on all Sundays and Holy Days of obligations, as well as go to confession at least once a year and receive communion at least once during the Easter season.
 
Deo_Gratias42 said:
You have most definitely heard wrong. We must also attend Mass on all Sundays and Holy Days of obligations, as well as go to confession at least once a year and receive communion at least once during the Easter season.
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It is my understanding that the requirement for penance is if you have mortal sin.
Catechism
1457 According to the Church’s command, "after having attained the age of discretion, each of the faithful is bound by an obligation faithfully to confess serious sins at least once a year."56 Anyone who is aware of having committed a mortal sin must not receive Holy Communion, even if he experiences deep contrition, without having first received sacramental absolution, unless he has a grave reason for receiving Communion and there is no possibility of going to confession.57 Children must go to the sacrament of Penance before receiving Holy Communion for the first time.
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John_Martin said:
A note about going to weekly mass…
our obligation is that we are actually “performing the sacrifice with the Priest” - we are in the person of the disciples and the Priest in the person of Jesus, so that the Event is really happening, Jesus offering himself in a covenant sacrifice to his Father, and giving his body and blood to his disciples to eat and drink and thereby sealing the covenant. God accepts it, we accept it, and we are in covenant union with him as his people, his family. We must be there, so that Jesus can say to us, “take and eat, take and drink”, or else he would be talking to no one.

John Martin
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The priest’s sacrifice of the Eucharist is sufficient. The laity offer themselves as sacrifice and participate with the priest but in a different way. CNA article. Father Z comments.

Don’t forget that mass can be celebrated with only the priest present and no assembly. It is just as valid in those cases.
 
Elizium23 said:
The priest’s sacrifice of the Eucharist is sufficient. The laity offer themselves as sacrifice and participate with the priest but in a different way. CNA article. Father Z comments.

Don’t forget that mass can be celebrated with only the priest present and no assembly. It is just as valid in those cases.
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The priest is two people in the Mass, himself as a disciple, and in persona Christi.
He is not “transubstantiated” like the bread and wine, but speaks in persona Christi in virtue of his ordination, I believe.
This would mean that there is one person saying “Lord, I am unworthy that you should enter under my roof” and eating and drinking, and another person saying “This is my body, this is the chalice of my blood of the new covenant”, even when only the priest is there.

The disciple(s) must be present (and are present) in All cases for the Mass.

John Martin
 
These are the five precepts of the RCC as listed in the CCC:

II. THE PRECEPTS OF THE CHURCH

2041 The precepts of the Church are set in the context of a moral life bound to and nourished by liturgical life. The obligatory character of these positive laws decreed by the pastoral authorities is meant to guarantee to the faithful the very necessary minimum in the spirit of prayer and moral effort, in the growth in love of God and neighbor:

2042 The first precept (“You shall attend Mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation and rest from servile labor”) requires the faithful to sanctify the day commemorating the Resurrection of the Lord as well as the principal liturgical feasts honoring the mysteries of the Lord, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and the saints; in the first place, by participating in the Eucharistic celebration, in which the Christian community is gathered, and by resting from those works and activities which could impede such a sanctification of these days.82

The second precept (“You shall confess your sins at least once a year”) ensures preparation for the Eucharist by the reception of the sacrament of reconciliation, which continues Baptism’s work of conversion and forgiveness.83

The third precept (“You shall receive the sacrament of the Eucharist at least during the Easter season”) guarantees as a minimum the reception of the Lord’s Body and Blood in connection with the Paschal feasts, the origin and center of the Christian liturgy.84

2043 The fourth precept (“You shall observe the days of fasting and abstinence established by the Church”) ensures the times of ascesis and penance which prepare us for the liturgical feasts and help us acquire mastery over our instincts and freedom of heart.85

The fifth precept (“You shall help to provide for the needs of the Church”) means that the faithful are obliged to assist with the material needs of the Church, each according to his own ability.

It is *recommended *that the faithful receive the sacrament of reconciliation at least once a year even if they do not have mortal sin. There are graces received in the sacrament which help us to further refrain from sins both venial and mortal. However, this is NOT a requirement.
 
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