Absolute certainty and belief in God

  • Thread starter Thread starter lefty22
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
L

lefty22

Guest
I was writing a paper for my religions class and I got thinking about this…

Does absolute certainty exist? And if not, can we believe in God if we are not certain that He exists? How?

What do you all think?

~lefty22
 
I was writing a paper for my religions class and I got thinking about this…

Does absolute certainty exist? And if not, can we believe in God if we are not certain that He exists? How?

What do you all think?

~lefty22
Nah, I don’t think certainty is a necessary condition for knowledge. I think certitude is just the highest degree of confidence in a proposition we can have, and we do have such confidence. For example, in our own existence.

I think S knows that p if:

(i) S believes that p,

(ii) S is aware of no defeaters for p which S doesn’t take herself to have adequate reason for rejecting, and

(iii) if S did have a defeater for p which she had no adequate reason for rejecting, then S would abandon p.

(Where S is any person whosoever and p is any proposition whatsoever)

So, I know that God exists if:

(i) I believe God exists,

(ii) I’m aware of no defeaters for the existence of God which I don’t take myself to have adequate reasons for rejecting, and

(iii) If I did have a defeater for God’s existence which I had no adequate reason for rejecting, then I’d become atheist.

None of these require absolute certainty.
 
I was writing a paper for my religions class and I got thinking about this…

Does absolute certainty exist? And if not, can we believe in God if we are not certain that He exists? How?

What do you all think?

~lefty22
Absolute certainty for me requires faith that God exists, which is enough for me. But to add logic and reason to it, what is more likely, that God exists or God does not exist? If God did not exist, then everything in the universe is just happenstance and coincidence. I find that hard to believe; science continues to unwrap the mysteries of the universe that shows there is a definite pattern of laws that are too intricate and complicated for me to reasonably believe that were caused by accident.
 
I was writing a paper for my religions class and I got thinking about this…

Does absolute certainty exist? And if not, can we believe in God if we are not certain that He exists? How?

What do you all think?

~lefty22
It can exist. But humans are able to manage without it; which itself is an ability which points to a reality.
 
I was writing a paper for my religions class and I got thinking about this…

Does absolute certainty exist? And if not, can we believe in God if we are not certain that He exists? How?

What do you all think?

~lefty22
Think about this, then: If there were no absolute certainty, then how would you know there is no absolute certainty?
 
The question you ask is a very, very deep one in epistemology. I would recommend to you:
In the last book, chapter five goes right to the heart of certainty, and I cannot recommend this book highly enough.

In short, yes, we can have certainty, but we shouldn’t be cavalier about definitions. It would be worthwhile, as an exercise, to define ‘certainty’.

A person who says, ‘I believe just at this moment…but I cannot answer for myself that I shall believe tomorrow,’ does not believe.​

No man can worship, love, or trust in a probable God.
John Henry Newman
 
How can the Creation truly understand and know the Creator?
The same way it knows and understands anything else.

It is perfectly possible for a creator to make a creation greater than himself. For example, we’ve made computers that are orders of magnitude better at mathematics than we are.
 
You don’t need certainty for belief. If you have certainty, you have knowledge, not belief.

I’m not certain that life exists on other planets in the universe. But, based on the laws of probability, I believe that it does, because the likelihood of our planet being the only one in a “goldilocks” zone is infinitesimal.

By the same laws of probability, belief in God is a lot more of a precarious proposition.
 
By the same laws of probability, belief in God is a lot more of a precarious proposition.
Why should the belief that life is an accident be any less precarious - given that it undermines your claim to be rational?
 
Why should the belief that life is an accident be any less precarious - given that it undermines your claim to be rational?
The belief that life is an accident is supported by scientific experiment and observation. It in no way undermines my claim to be rational, and I’m struggling to understand the sort of disingenuous mental acrobatics one must undergo to pretend otherwise.
 
Why should the belief that life is an accident be any less precarious - given that it undermines your claim to be rational?
Can scientists observe and create the laws of nature?
It in no way undermines my claim to be rational…
Your claim to be a rational product of irrational events is hardly convincing unless you can demonstrate scientifically how inanimate molecules can be so conveniently arranged that they become aware of themselves and capable of understanding that they are no more than an arrangement of inanimate molecules…

.
… and I’m struggling to understand the sort of disingenuous mental acrobatics one must undergo to pretend otherwise.
That is not surprising if you are indeed the product of irrational molecular acrobatics! 🙂
 
Only inasmuch as we are careful to exclude any notion of final causes.
Certainly we are careful to exclude any unproven and unnecessary notions, in the interest of an efficient and objective result.
 
Can scientists observe and create the laws of nature?
Observe their effects, yes. Create, no. What does this prove?
Your claim to be a rational product of irrational events is hardly convincing unless you can demonstrate scientifically how inanimate molecules can be so conveniently arranged that they become aware of themselves and capable of understanding that they are no more than an arrangement of inanimate molecules…
I know this is your favourite hobby horse, and I’m not surprise to see you trotting it out again, even though I’m convinced that you’re aware it doesn’t float.
.That is not surprising if you are indeed the product of irrational molecular acrobatics! 🙂
Your predilection for valueless quips is sometimes quite entertaining. But not at this time of night.
 
Certainly we are careful to exclude any unproven and unnecessary notions, in the interest of an efficient and objective result.
I expect we probably differ greatly on first principles, and on meaningful definitions of terms such as ‘proof’, ‘necessary’, ‘objective’, maybe even ‘we’, but then I tend to place a lot of weight on the importance of defining terms.

Usually, I find that I am unable to have a debate with materialists/physicalists because of the first principles issue, namely that we mean different things when we say ‘the world’. I think it’s best to recognize this up front.

Best of luck to you.
Half the controversies in the world are verbal ones; and could they be brought to a plain issue they would be brought to a prompt termination. Parties engaged in them would then perceive either that in substance they agreed together, or that their difference was one of first principles. We need not dispute, we need not prove, we need but define. At all events, let us, if we can, do this first of all and then see who are left for us to dispute; what is left for us to prove.
John Cardinal Newman
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top