Absolute Relativism

[raymond_king]

May The God Of Truth be with us!
The truth is that truth is relative. In fact, in the end, He will be uniquely relative. For in the kingdom we shall have Our Own Glory. We shall become like the Angels. Having our own life within us. Just as Jesus saidThe father gives me life and I have life from the Father. Oh, yes the Truth, The Holy Spirit, gives justice to the world in equity. Raymond D King:

 

[Dan_Daly]

May The God Of Truth be with us!
The truth is that truth is relative. In fact, in the end, He will be uniquely relative. For in the kingdom we shall have Our Own Glory. We shall become like the Angels. Having our own life within us. Just as Jesus saidThe father gives me life and I have life from the Father. Oh, yes the Truth, The Holy Spirit, gives justice to the world in equity. Raymond D King:

Absolute Relativism as opposed to Relative Relativism?

Relativists always struggle with the fact that “Everything is Relative”…is an absolute statement.

Pax

 

[ibo]

May The God Of Truth be with us!
The truth is that truth is relative. In fact, in the end, He will be uniquely relative. For in the kingdom we shall have Our Own Glory. We shall become like the Angels. Having our own life within us. Just as Jesus saidThe father gives me life and I have life from the Father. Oh, yes the Truth, The Holy Spirit, gives justice to the world in equity. Raymond D King:

???

 

[ANNE_2]

Relativism and Secularism in today’s world help to destroy the moral fabric of our Country.

Relativism is the concept that points of view have no absolute truth or validity, having only relative, subjective value according to differences in perception and consideration.
The term is often used to refer to the context of moral principle, where in a relativistic mode of thought, principles and ethics are regarded as applicable in only limited context.
There are many forms of relativism which vary in their degree of controversy. The term often refers to truth relativism, which is the doctrine that there are no absolute truths.

Secularism is the complete separation of a government or society from religion and/or religious beliefs.
The US Constitution does not uphold the actions of Courts which legislate from the bench.
The Constitution only states: " ARTICLE I, Bill of Rights - Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;".

 

[lutherlic]

May The God Of Truth be with us!
The truth is that truth is relative. In fact, in the end, He will be uniquely relative. For in the kingdom we shall have Our Own Glory. We shall become like the Angels. Having our own life within us. Just as Jesus saidThe father gives me life and I have life from the Father. Oh, yes the Truth, The Holy Spirit, gives justice to the world in equity. Raymond D King:

The truth is the truth. It is not relative, flexible, adjustable to personal preferences, etc.

It seems to me that relativism is a tool of the devil to convince people to sin and view what they are doing as somehow less wrong. It is a trap.

Some communities who have separated from the Catholic Church have increasingly raised the will of the individual above truth (i.e. the will of God). You, as a Catholic, know for instance that abortion is murder and that marriage is for life. These things are not relative but absolute. You also know that our doctrine and the teaching of the Magisterium is the infallible truth, not relative. It would be disobedient to the Church and to Christ (who is inseparable from His true Church, protected by the Holy Spirit) to deny these truths, for example.

 

[DPMartin]

The truth is the truth. It is not relative, flexible, adjustable to personal preferences, etc.

It seems to me that relativism is a tool of the devil to convince people to sin and view what they are doing as somehow less wrong. It is a trap.

Some communities who have separated from the Catholic Church have increasingly raised the will of the individual above truth (i.e. the will of God). You, as a Catholic, know for instance that abortion is murder and that marriage is for life. These things are not relative but absolute. You also know that our doctrine and the teaching of the Magisterium is the infallible truth, not relative. It would be disobedient to the Church and to Christ (who is inseparable from His true Church, protected by the Holy Spirit) to deny these truths, for example.

lutherlic

The Truth is the Truth no matter what the Truth is. And the Truth is relative to God the Almighty.
He is the God of Truth and has said as much that He will be known as the God of Truth and the Truth is only of God. So the Truth is relative.

We live in a time in western culture where every man does that which was right in his own eyes. And if your eyes are on Christ then the Truth of God is relative to you. If you eyes are not on Christ then the Truth of God is not relative to you.

So as you accuse the world of its evil doing, you don’t realize that the Truth of God is not relative to them. But condemning them ain’t going make them look to you for any answers, is it? And its my understanding that accusers of the children of men are no permitted in God’s Presence. So accusations, true or not, of the children of men, is not of the Holy Spirit which is God’s Presence. Jesus is not there accuser, why should you be?

 

[Trevor_Stamm]

lutherlic

The Truth is the Truth no matter what the Truth is. And the Truth is relative to God the Almighty.
He is the God of Truth and has said as much that He will be known as the God of Truth and the Truth is only of God. So the Truth is relative.

We live in a time in western culture where every man does that which was right in his own eyes. And if your eyes are on Christ then the Truth of God is relative to you. If you eyes are not on Christ then the Truth of God is not relative to you.

So as you accuse the world of its evil doing, you don’t realize that the Truth of God is not relative to them. But condemning them ain’t going make them look to you for any answers, is it? And its my understanding that accusers of the children of men are no permitted in God’s Presence. So accusations, true or not, of the children of men, is not of the Holy Spirit which is God’s Presence. Jesus is not there accuser, why should you be?

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.

John 17:17-19 Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. 18 As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.

Seems to me that Christ, being the Word of God is Truth. The Word has spoken the Truth. Therefore the Truth is not relative but spoken by Christ, who is Truth, to us. And what was spoken to us as Truth?

 

[tonyrey]

The term “relative” is so ambiguous it is necessary to define its precise meaning in any given context.

 

[lutherlic]

The term “relative” is so ambiguous it is necessary to define its precise meaning in any given context.

FWIW - Wikipedia says:

Relativism is the concept that points of view have no absolute truth or validity, having only relative, subjective value according to differences in perception and consideration. The term is often used to refer to the context of moral principle, where in a relativistic mode of thought, principles and ethics are regarded as applicable in only limited context. There are many forms of relativism which vary in their degree of controversy. The term often refers to truth relativism, which is the doctrine that there are no absolute truths, i.e., that truth is always relative to some particular frame of reference, such as a language or a culture (cf. cultural relativism). Another widespread and contentious form is moral relativism. (See also moral relativism, aesthetic relativism, social constructionism, and cognitive relativism).

Our Holy Father has said:

We are moving toward a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one’s own ego and one’s own desires.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Relativism and Secularism in today’s world help to destroy the moral fabric of our Country…The US Constitution does not uphold the actions of Courts which legislate from the bench.
The Constitution only states: " ARTICLE I, Bill of Rights - Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;".

I get the feeling the Establishment clause is meant to be displayed in a negative light in this context. It’s worth mentioning the environment in which it was added to the constitution. During the colonial phase of America a desire to escape religious persecution was one of the motivators for people to come over. But persecution based on religion started fairly quickly, such as the puritans wanting every one to worship in the Puritan way. Nonconformers were whipped, imprisoned, or banished. Early America was composed of a patchwork of religions (including the ideas of the indigenous people).

 

[DPMartin]

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.

John 17:17-19 Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. 18 As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.

Seems to me that Christ, being the Word of God is Truth. The Word has spoken the Truth. Therefore the Truth is not relative but spoken by Christ, who is Truth, to us. And what was spoken to us as Truth?

Trevor Stamm
thanks for the reply

And if you want to know the Truth of God you go to Jesus Christ. Therefore the Truth of God is relative to God, God the Father says Jesus the “Word of God” is His Son that is of God the Father. When you think about it when God speaks, He speaks for His View in His Presence. The Word of God is relative to God for the Word of God is from God and nowhere else.

 

[DPMartin]

The term “relative” is so ambiguous it is necessary to define its precise meaning in any given context.

tonyrey
Yea, your right, but I am trying to show that the OP is not as far off base as thought to be.

 

[Trevor_Stamm]

Trevor Stamm
thanks for the reply

And if you want to know the Truth of God you go to Jesus Christ.

Here’s how this sounds in it’s purest form:

“And if you want to know the God of God you go to God.”

tautological, are we?

Truth of God = Christ

Christ = God the Son

God the Son = One Person of the Trinity

Trinity = God

Were you trying to say: “And if you want to know the true teachings of God, you go to Him”?

If this is what you meant, then the question is how do you go to God?

 

[DPMartin]

Here’s how this sounds in it’s purest form:

“And if you want to know the God of God you go to God.”

tautological, are we?

Truth of God = Christ

Christ = God the Son

God the Son = One Person of the Trinity

Trinity = God

Were you trying to say: “And if you want to know the true teachings of God, you go to Him”?

If this is what you meant, then the question is how do you go to God?

Trevor Stamm

thanks for the reply

Then explain this

1Pt:1:3: **Blessed be the God and Father of **our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Ps:31:5: Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of truth.

Isa:65:16: That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.

The Word of God precedes from God, the Son of God is of the Father.

 

[Trevor_Stamm]

Not sure what you want explained. Please, elabroate.

Also, with all due respect, please answer the question I asked before preceeding.

 

[DPMartin]

Not sure what you want explained. Please, elabroate.

Also, with all due respect, please answer the question I asked before preceeding.

Trevor Stamm
sorry missed that
You request to be in His Presence, or maybe better said, request His Presence be with you, in a repentant, and humble manor, that He hear your prayer, by His Grace and Mercy, seeking Mercy, in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ forever. That He would give you answer, or agree and fulfill (grant), of which He is not required. For it is man who has to answer to God, one why or the other, in what the Creator requires in His Presence, in His creation.

 

[raymond_king]

The truth is the truth. It is not relative, flexible, adjustable to personal preferences, etc.

It seems to me that relativism is a tool of the devil to convince people to sin and view what they are doing as somehow less wrong. It is a trap.

Some communities who have separated from the Catholic Church have increasingly raised the will of the individual above truth (i.e. the will of God). You, as a Catholic, know for instance that abortion is murder and that marriage is for life. These things are not relative but absolute. You also know that our doctrine and the teaching of the Magisterium is the infallible truth, not relative. It would be disobedient to the Church and to Christ (who is inseparable from His true Church, protected by the Holy Spirit) to deny these truths, for example.

 

[raymond_king]

raymond_king:
I do not hold to the teachings that the Pope is infallible. I think that this doctrine was made to insure the imperial hold over , what was left, after the unification of Italy. This ,so called , last the political empire of this “church” had gone the way of their absolute control over the people and their ideas. Today, this same “church” under the leadership of Benedict 16, is trying to lead us back into the “slavery of sin”. We were free under vatican 2 , but now we are brought back to the Tridentine mentality. Ray

 

[raymond_king]

raymond_king:
Wow, you must go to bed with a cross under your pillow. I have herd the whipers. Do not let these concepts gain control they are fleeting. I Do!

 

[lutherlic]

I do not hold to the teachings that the Pope is infallible. I think that this doctrine was made to insure the imperial hold over , what was left, after the unification of Italy. This ,so called , last the political empire of this “church” had gone the way of their absolute control over the people and their ideas. Today, this same “church” under the leadership of Benedict 16, is trying to lead us back into the “slavery of sin”. We were free under vatican 2 , but now we are brought back to the Tridentine mentality. Ray

If you are referring to general (not intended to be infallible) teachings of the Holy Father, then OK. I wouldn’t agree however with your analysis at all, but respect your opinion.

If you are saying the Church lacks infallibility in the faith and moral teaching of the Magisterium led by the Pope (when such is their intention), then for you the Church is just another Christian religious organization among many. It’s beliefs are just positions, particularly on modern matters, are to be accepted or rejected by personal standards or democratic consensus. The Magisterium is an organizational administrative body and the Holy Spirit does not guide the Catholic Church differently or with greater protection than other groups. Right?