Absolution from Priest only?

[teachccd]

I have a different view. With respect to dbacks, it’s not about feelings and whether we make an appointment or wait till Saturday. It’s the motive behind our sorrow for sin that matters - either it’s God-centered (perfect) or self-centered (imperfect).

The catechism presents our acts and their results.

First is our act of perfect contrition. Mortal sin deprives the soul of charity. Perfect contrition, springing from love, restores charity and obtains forgiveness ***in and of itself ***and mends the rift between the soul and God. (God is love, and he who abides in love, abides in God, and God in him. It’s from St. John somewhere - again I don’t have chapter/verse)

The act of imperfect contrition is rooted more in self-interest (fear of hell, wounded pride, etc.) than love of God. Therefore it cannot, in and of itself, mend the rift between the soul and God and obtain forgiveness.

Neither of these places any restriction on God (how dare we) regarding actions He may or may not perform in addition to our act of contrition. The catechism is silent on this. Does this mean that God cannot choose to forgive anyway? Of course not. God can do whatever He pleases.

The catechism specifies that we must rely on that which we can control: our own act of contrition and our use of the Sacrament of Penance. We are bound under obedience to confess all our mortal sins, whether our contrition is perfect or imperfect. It is presumption to rely on God’s mercy and the possibility that He may forgive outside the rules if we don’t hold up our end of the bargain. Does it not, however, border on despair to believe that if we are prevented by circumstance from getting to Confession, despite our best effort, that God will condemn us?

With regard to the observation that all possible exceptions to sacramental Baptism are presented in the catechism, I believe that is because Baptism is presented as being absolutely necessary for salvation, and the Sacrament of Penance is not. For example, a person saved by Baptism of Desire cannot be expected to use the Sacrament of Penance.

To sum up, the catechism tells what we must do, but not what God may do. And I repeat my suggestion to meditate on the Prodigal Son. The parables of Jesus are as valuable a teaching tool as the catechism.

Betsy

Very well said. Sometimes I feel that we get so legalistic that we forget that God is Love. Not to test Him or ignore His Church’s teachings but just to realize that God is more forgiving than any human could possibly be. Yes, if the prodigal son had tripped on a rock before he reached his father, his father would have run out to him. As long as we’re running toward God, as our intention for Sacramental Reconciliation would indicate, God will seek us. He went through all the trouble of sending His Son to suffer and die for us and forgive those who physically nailed Him to the cross. How could He not see a suffering soul who intends to confess? If I’m on my way to confession and die in the state of mortal sin before getting there and I end up in hell, then my image of an infinitely merciful loving God has been distorted all of my life… God Bless to all

 

[teachccd]

Yet the knowledge of the ordinary need for the Sacrament of Confession, and the realization of the danger in just the drive to a Priest to receive Confession, let alone the time between then and now, has been a great Grace in the avoidance of sin.

I CANNOT bring myself to believe that an infinitely loving God would see us as eternally separated from Him if we are truly sorry and especially if we are on our way to confession. God is infinitely compassionate, merciful, loving, forgiving and infinitely just. So how could He possibly see poor Johnny Smith driving to confession and pow!!! fatal car accident. Too bad Johnny, had you looked in both directions you would have made it to confession and be in heaven but you didn’t quite make it. Father Joe was only a block away but you lost.

Is this really what some here gather that the Church teaches?

 

[Montgomeryatty]

Is this really what some here gather that the Church teaches?

Yes, its what I gather the Church and the Catechism teach. Or so it appears. How I wish Baltobetsy’s perspective was true! But Belfarmer appears to be the only poster faithful to the Catechism. Everyone else seems to be trying to explain away a doctrine that makes them very uncomfortable. Now, we could say that the Church doesn’t really know what its talking about, that “cannot obtain the forgiveness of sins” really means “might not be able to obtain the forgiveness of sins,” but that would undermine the whole notion of a Magisterium. So it appears settled that the Church’s official teaching is that if a sinner commits a mortal sin and lacks Perfect Contrition, look both ways before crossing the street . . . .

 

[Belfarmer]

I CANNOT bring myself to believe that an infinitely loving God would see us as eternally separated from Him if we are truly sorry and especially if we are on our way to confession. God is infinitely compassionate, merciful, loving, forgiving and infinitely just. So how could He possibly see poor Johnny Smith driving to confession and pow!!! fatal car accident. Too bad Johnny, had you looked in both directions you would have made it to confession and be in heaven but you didn’t quite make it. Father Joe was only a block away but you lost.

Is this really what some here gather that the Church teaches?

Hope. I can hope that the above is true and there is nothing wrong in that. Yet, whatever I feel, whatever I hope, there is only one Truth, Jesus Christ, and His Church and her teaching. The certainty is that with imperfect contrition only, salvation is not assured. I can hope for salvation, given His mercy in a given circumstance, yet CCC 1453 is very clear.

I choose to do all, with God’s Loving Grace, to avoid sin. Certainly CCC 1453 is part of a powerful reason to do so, and in itself, is a great Grace to help avoid sin. Again, without being scrupulous, at an occasion of serious sin, I would try to make a “perfect” contrition and get to Sacramental Confession ASAP. I would not be assured that a perfect contrition was possible and within my spiritual ability.

If Sacramental Confession is not possible before death, I can hope, but salvation would not be assured as it is through Confession. I see sacramental confession as vitally important to salvation.

 

[Montgomeryatty]

Hope. I can hope that the above is true and there is nothing wrong in that. Yet, whatever I feel, whatever I hope, there is only one Truth, Jesus Christ, and His Church and her teaching. The certainty is that with imperfect contrition only, salvation is not assured. I can hope for salvation, given His mercy in a given circumstance, yet CCC 1453 is very clear.

I choose to do all, with God’s Loving Grace, to avoid sin. Certainly CCC 1453 is part of a powerful reason to do so, and in itself, is a great Grace to help avoid sin. Again, without being scrupulous, at an occasion of serious sin, I would try to make a “perfect” contrition and get to Sacramental Confession ASAP. I would not be assured that a perfect contrition was possible and within my spiritual ability.

If Sacramental Confession is not possible before death, I can hope, but salvation would not be assured as it is through Confession. I see sacramental confession as vitally important to salvation.

Agreed on all points Belfarmer. This seems to be the inescapable truth, no matter the fact that it is intensely unsettling when considered for the first time . . .

 

[YinYangMom]

This seems to be the inescapable truth, no matter the fact that it is intensely unsettling when considered for the first time . . .

Not just the first time, either, though.

That inescapable truth, whenever I have the occasion to reflect upon it, is what finally makes that ‘Fear of the Lord’ phrase real.

The rest of the time, when I’m comfortable in His blessings and mercy, life is going well, etc. it is difficult for me to feel ‘fear’ for such a loving and wonderful Father…

and then those moments, not just that first time, but those moments when I slip up and cross a line I was doing so well in not crossing for quite a while comes along and bam the fear is back, intense as ever, and that drives me to the confessional ASAP…after which I bask in His love and mercy again…but I do try to keep a small sense of fear always with me each time because I find it does help me not slip up as much as I used to.

 

[teachccd]

Yes, its what I gather the Church and the Catechism teach. Or so it appears. How I wish Baltobetsy’s perspective was true! But Belfarmer appears to be the only poster faithful to the Catechism. Everyone else seems to be trying to explain away a doctrine that makes them very uncomfortable. Now, we could say that the Church doesn’t really know what its talking about, that “cannot obtain the forgiveness of sins” really means “might not be able to obtain the forgiveness of sins,” but that would undermine the whole notion of a Magisterium. So it appears settled that the Church’s official teaching is that if a sinner commits a mortal sin and lacks Perfect Contrition, look both ways before crossing the street . . . .

Quite the contrary. Instead of trying to explain away a doctrine that makes me “feel” uncomfortable I’m emphasizing the mercy of God. God is not bound by his commands. We are. That is in the Catechism. CCC# 1257. I am very faithful to the Magesterium and the Catechism but also realize the faithfulness of an infinite loving God. And if you do not believe that God can do anything that He pleases such as offer forgiveness to someone on their way to confession and doesn’t make it, then you just became God. I don’t think that that is the case. We have to be careful not to become legalistic and let God be God. Yes, Sacramental Confession is definitely the ordinary way to be reconciled back to God after a grave sin and we , as Catholics, should never ignore this command. My point is that God is God and no person knows the mind of God. He gave us guidelines in which we need to follow. Remember that the Church teaches that there is a hell. BUT, there is NO official teaching that anyone is there. I’m not ending this post with the presumption of God’s mercy just the understanding that God is Love. Infinite Love. More than anyone posting here or who has ever lived besides Christ Himself would know…Baltobetsy, I’m still with you on this issue because you emphasize that only God reads our hearts …and I don’t believe that if we fail to look both ways on our way to confession that we are eternally doomed…Please Let God be God …

 

[baltobetsy]

CCC 1257 says:

The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are “reborn of water and the Spirit.” * God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.* (italics in original)
He himself is not bound by his sacraments. In other words, He can do whatever He pleases. Notice also that the sentence says “sacraments” (plural), not just Baptism.

So there we are again, walking the fine line between presumption and despair. That line consists of obedience and trust.

Betsy

 

[teachccd]

**1453 **The contrition called “imperfect” (or “attrition”) is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin’s ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.

The thief on the Cross next to Jesus was disposed to forgiveness but could not come down from the Cross to be baptized. The extreme desire to have Jesus remember him when He came into His kingdom was enough for Our Lord to say," Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise." (Luke 24:43) Jesus did not reiterate what He said in John 3:5, " Amen,amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and spirit." Here is a fine example where we must allow God to be God.

 

[teachccd]

Hypothetical: On Sunday afternoon after Mass, I commit a mortal sin, get on my knees, pray (with fervent but nonetheless imperfect contrition) for God’s mercy and forgiveness, resolve to not commit the sin ever again. I spend the entire week faithfully avoiding other mortal sin and powerfully resisting any temptation to sin. Saturday afternoon I’m driving to reconciliation (the only opportunity offered at our parish), and I’m hit by a truck and die instantly. If I understand the Church’s teaching correctly, I’m in Hell now, correct?

If you’re a legalist you may believe so. If you are a disciple of Christ and know that each of us is up for judgement according to our love of Him, then no one can answer your question. Only God can. God is not in time nor is His knowledge of us in time. So if, chronologically speaking, we die before our desired confession, He (GOD) knows that our disposition is for the reconciling of ourselves back to Him. In your above example you are putting severe restraints on an infinite God. Why is it so easy for so many of us to do that??

 

[Montgomeryatty]

God is not bound by his commands. We are. That is in the Catechism. CCC# 1257.

CCC 1257 says . . . “God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.”

teachccd & betsy: In a word, Bingo. Thank you! These are the first “God is love/God is mercy” posts that have included some authority to support the proposition.

Please understand, I have never disagreed with the notion that God is loving and merciful and sincerely desires for all of us to be saved (2 Peter 3:9).

But one of the chief characteristics of the Catholic Church is that when she asserts something via the magisterium, there is an imprimatur and an implicit “clarity” or “refinement” of the statement. Blanket statements are often not used for fear of leading the flock astray. Because the only thing I had encountered in the Catechism were statements explicitly providing that confession was the sole method of obtaining forgiveness for a sin countered by only imperfect contrition, I was somewhat in shock at the proposition that God had really taught, through the Church, that salvation was always and forever and without exception so “formulaic.”

I would say that I’ve kept a similar principle in mind during this discussion, but with the necessary conclusion being different from that you two have reached. Namely, I’ve kept in mind that just because God has the power to do something doesn’t mean he ever exercises that power. If he did, God would be directly responsible for all things occuring on this earth, from the blowing of the leaves to the evil acts of men. I think its clear that God does not do so. So although God is indisputably omnipotent and may do as he pleases, my impression from the Catechism was that God has done as he pleases by teaching, through the Church, that the Sacrament of Reconciliation is the sole and only method of reclaiming salvation after mortal sin/imperfect contrition. Or to put it another way, I was understanding the Church’s teaching to necessarily mean that God had chosen in His infinite wisdom to exercise no discretion in the matter.

The Cathecism citation you’ve provided in no way means “eh, confession is good when you get around to it,” but it most assuredly does indicate that the Church acknowledges God’s discretion in this manner. And that is very good news indeed.

Thank you!

 

[teachccd]

teachccd & betsy: In a word, Bingo. Thank you! These are the first “God is love/God is mercy” posts that have included some authority to support the proposition.

Thank you!

And thank you. We all learn from different perspectives. God Bless you…teachccd