Absolution prayer

[superamazingman]

Uhh…that’s not the minimum for Mass and like you said it wouldn’t be acceptable. The minimal form of the absolution is acceptable…it’s just not what the OP was hoping for.

The words are not the most important part, it’s the spiritual absolution and sanctifying grace we receive that matters most.

Actually, to be a Mass, that is the minimum. Still never acceptable…

But likewise, except in very grave cases, it’s not acceptable for the minimum to be used for confession.

“The words are not the most important part”?!?! Words are how the sacrament is accomplished!!

 

[Leon_Bloy]

Perhaps he prayed the rest silently as the OP made the act of contrition?

Perhaps, but do the instructions permit that? Not as far as I am aware.

 

[mfrances]

Not the answer I got at all when I wrote my bishop.

What is the answer you received from the Bishop’s office?

 

[superamazingman]

What is the answer you received from the Bishop’s office?

They basically said it was wrong of the priest and would be dealt with appropriately.

 

[onmyknees]

The minimum that the priest has to say is “I absolve you of your sins, In the Name of the Father + and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”

It’s better if the priest does the entire prayer, but they are not incorrect in using the shorter form. This is the answer you will probably get if you write the bishop.

I would have preferred that he leave out the protestant “In Jesus name” and just said, “I absolve you in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit Amen” He is a Catholic priest after all. I don’t think that was correct.

 

[onmyknees]

:extrahappy:We got a new orthodox bishop this year who will most likely do something about this if I write him.

 

[onmyknees]

Why not simply offer this up to God and let it go at that? It sounds like he performed a valid absolution…the bare minimum, but still valid.

Why this urge to report a priest who hasn’t done anything seriously wrong? Now I can understand why my priest always asks me to pray for him. He’s human and makes mistakes or has moments of weakness like all of us.

Forgive him in your heart and move on.

I have forgiven him but that doesn’t mean that it is wrong to make things right.

 

[mgoforth]

I have forgiven him but that doesn’t mean that it is wrong to make things right.

Well…my opinion is clearly outnumbered on this thread.

Don’t get me wrong, I do appreciate when all the priests adhere to the standard forms, and I like certain phrases as much as the next person. But in this case the priest really did nothing illicit or invalid. We have no idea what his reasons were for saying the absolution the way he did. None of us on this thread has any idea. Maybe he thought there were others waiting as Prometheus suggested. Just because there was an hour left doesn’t give us the ability to read his mind. Maybe he was seriously ill and the minimum was all he could muster at that moment. As everyone else has pointed out, he should not use the minimum form unless it’s a grave circumstance…but what most haven’t said is that we can’t know for sure that there wasn’t a serious reason in the mind of the priest.

onmyknees:

I was very disappointed to not hear the beautiful absolution prayer that I am so accustomed, which always brings me to tears.

I totally understand it can be disappointing when people don’t treat us the way we hope they will. You felt cheated, I get that. But try to see that it’s not all about our feelings. It’s not about being brought to tears by the beauty of the words.

There’s a church I attend when I go to the beach in the summer, and the priest there has a style that I don’t really care for. It’s obvious that he really loves giving homilies and in my opinion he tends to rush through the consecration sometimes. Like you, my mind starts saying “This priest is so Protestant…he just wants to preach a sermon but doesn’t value the Eucharist”. I don’t get the same warm feelings when I go to that church and I find myself not paying attention to the Mass because I’m grumbling to myself about the style. But the priest there doesn’t do anything illicit as far as I can tell, and I tell myself that my personal preferences are not what’s important. Plus, I don’t know what’s in his heart…he might be very devoted to the Eucharist, and I’m not seeing it.

I don’t know if I’m getting my point across very well? Perhaps this priest and his style which you consider “Protestant” is your cross in life. Pick it up and carry it. Accept whatever suffering this brings you humbly, and in fact with joy, because it forces you to deny yourself. Denying ourselves and turning to God for comfort is a good thing. I would encourage you to save your complaints to the Bishop for clear and serious infractions, and let the minor things that annoy you serve as personal sacrifices to God.

 

[superamazingman]

Well…my opinion is clearly outnumbered on this thread.

Don’t get me wrong, I do appreciate when all the priests adhere to the standard forms, and I like certain phrases as much as the next person. But in this case the priest really did nothing illicit or invalid. We have no idea what his reasons were for saying the absolution the way he did. None of us on this thread has any idea. Maybe he thought there were others waiting as Prometheus suggested. Just because there was an hour left doesn’t give us the ability to read his mind. Maybe he was seriously ill and the minimum was all he could muster at that moment. As everyone else has pointed out, he should not use the minimum form unless it’s a grave circumstance…but what most haven’t said is that we can’t know for sure that there wasn’t a serious reason in the mind of the priest.

I totally understand it can be disappointing when people don’t treat us the way we hope they will. You felt cheated, I get that. But try to see that it’s not all about our feelings. It’s not about being brought to tears by the beauty of the words.

There’s a church I attend when I go to the beach in the summer, and the priest there has a style that I don’t really care for. It’s obvious that he really loves giving homilies and in my opinion he tends to rush through the consecration sometimes. Like you, my mind starts saying “This priest is so Protestant…he just wants to preach a sermon but doesn’t value the Eucharist”. I don’t get the same warm feelings when I go to that church and I find myself not paying attention to the Mass because I’m grumbling to myself about the style. But the priest there doesn’t do anything illicit as far as I can tell, and I tell myself that my personal preferences are not what’s important. Plus, I don’t know what’s in his heart…he might be very devoted to the Eucharist, and I’m not seeing it.

I don’t know if I’m getting my point across very well? Perhaps this priest and his style which you consider “Protestant” is your cross in life. Pick it up and carry it. Accept whatever suffering this brings you humbly, and in fact with joy, because it forces you to deny yourself. Denying ourselves and turning to God for comfort is a good thing. I would encourage you to save your complaints to the Bishop for clear and serious infractions, and let the minor things that annoy you serve as personal sacrifices to God.

There’s still a problem. What this priest did was still objectively wrong. If he is going to use the short form, he needs to say “I absolve you of all your sins in the name of the father…”, not anything else about “in the name of Jesus.” He CAN NOT ADD WORDS to the sacraments. That is sinful on his part, which I might point out is quite ironic during the sacrament of confession.

Priests have a duty to follow the rites of the church word for word. Having a priest protestant in his style is indeed a cross for his parishoners. But you make it sound like that is fine for the priest. Acting in a protestant manner is not OK for priests. Put aside all the ecumenical talk for a moment, and remember that the protestants are the ones who are rejecting the one, true faith. There’s no other way around it.

 

[superamazingman]

Well…my opinion is clearly outnumbered on this thread.

Don’t get me wrong, I do appreciate when all the priests adhere to the standard forms, and I like certain phrases as much as the next person. But in this case the priest really did nothing illicit or invalid. We have no idea what his reasons were for saying the absolution the way he did. None of us on this thread has any idea. Maybe he thought there were others waiting as Prometheus suggested. Just because there was an hour left doesn’t give us the ability to read his mind. Maybe he was seriously ill and the minimum was all he could muster at that moment. As everyone else has pointed out, he should not use the minimum form unless it’s a grave circumstance…but what most haven’t said is that we can’t know for sure that there wasn’t a serious reason in the mind of the priest.

I totally understand it can be disappointing when people don’t treat us the way we hope they will. You felt cheated, I get that. But try to see that it’s not all about our feelings. It’s not about being brought to tears by the beauty of the words.

There’s a church I attend when I go to the beach in the summer, and the priest there has a style that I don’t really care for. It’s obvious that he really loves giving homilies and in my opinion he tends to rush through the consecration sometimes. Like you, my mind starts saying “This priest is so Protestant…he just wants to preach a sermon but doesn’t value the Eucharist”. I don’t get the same warm feelings when I go to that church and I find myself not paying attention to the Mass because I’m grumbling to myself about the style. But the priest there doesn’t do anything illicit as far as I can tell, and I tell myself that my personal preferences are not what’s important. Plus, I don’t know what’s in his heart…he might be very devoted to the Eucharist, and I’m not seeing it.

I don’t know if I’m getting my point across very well? Perhaps this priest and his style which you consider “Protestant” is your cross in life. Pick it up and carry it. Accept whatever suffering this brings you humbly, and in fact with joy, because it forces you to deny yourself. Denying ourselves and turning to God for comfort is a good thing. I would encourage you to save your complaints to the Bishop for clear and serious infractions, and let the minor things that annoy you serve as personal sacrifices to God.

There’s still a problem. What this priest did was still objectively wrong. If he is going to use the short form, he needs to say “I absolve you of all your sins in the name of the father…”, not anything else about “in the name of Jesus.” He CAN NOT ADD WORDS to the sacraments. That is sinful on his part, which I might point out is quite ironic during the sacrament of confession.

Priests have a duty to follow the rites of the church word for word. Having a priest protestant in his style is indeed a cross for his parishoners. But you make it sound like that is fine for the priest. Acting in a protestant manner is not OK for priests. Put aside all the ecumenical talk for a moment, and remember that the protestants are the ones who are rejecting the one, true faith. There’s no other way around it. It is a problem when a priest begins to take on the manerisims and nuances of those who reject the faith.

It just makes me sick to see priests like that.

PRIESTS NEED TO STOP CHANGING THE WORDS OF THE SACRAMENTS! THIS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS.

 

[superamazingman]

Well…my opinion is clearly outnumbered on this thread.

Don’t get me wrong, I do appreciate when all the priests adhere to the standard forms, and I like certain phrases as much as the next person. But in this case the priest really did nothing illicit or invalid. We have no idea what his reasons were for saying the absolution the way he did. None of us on this thread has any idea. Maybe he thought there were others waiting as Prometheus suggested. Just because there was an hour left doesn’t give us the ability to read his mind. Maybe he was seriously ill and the minimum was all he could muster at that moment. As everyone else has pointed out, he should not use the minimum form unless it’s a grave circumstance…but what most haven’t said is that we can’t know for sure that there wasn’t a serious reason in the mind of the priest.

I totally understand it can be disappointing when people don’t treat us the way we hope they will. You felt cheated, I get that. But try to see that it’s not all about our feelings. It’s not about being brought to tears by the beauty of the words.

There’s a church I attend when I go to the beach in the summer, and the priest there has a style that I don’t really care for. It’s obvious that he really loves giving homilies and in my opinion he tends to rush through the consecration sometimes. Like you, my mind starts saying “This priest is so Protestant…he just wants to preach a sermon but doesn’t value the Eucharist”. I don’t get the same warm feelings when I go to that church and I find myself not paying attention to the Mass because I’m grumbling to myself about the style. But the priest there doesn’t do anything illicit as far as I can tell, and I tell myself that my personal preferences are not what’s important. Plus, I don’t know what’s in his heart…he might be very devoted to the Eucharist, and I’m not seeing it.

I don’t know if I’m getting my point across very well? Perhaps this priest and his style which you consider “Protestant” is your cross in life. Pick it up and carry it. Accept whatever suffering this brings you humbly, and in fact with joy, because it forces you to deny yourself. Denying ourselves and turning to God for comfort is a good thing. I would encourage you to save your complaints to the Bishop for clear and serious infractions, and let the minor things that annoy you serve as personal sacrifices to God.

There’s still a problem. What this priest did was still objectively wrong. If he is going to use the short form, he needs to say “I absolve you of all your sins in the name of the father…”, not anything else about “in the name of Jesus.” He CAN NOT ADD WORDS to the sacraments. That is sinful on his part, which I might point out is quite ironic during the sacrament of confession.

Priests have a duty to follow the rites of the church word for word. Having a priest protestant in his style is indeed a cross for his parishoners. But you make it sound like that is fine for the priest. Acting in a protestant manner is not OK for priests. Put aside all the ecumenical talk for a moment, and remember that the protestants are the ones who are rejecting the one, true faith. There’s no other way around it. It is a problem when a priest begins to take on the manerisims and nuances of those who reject the faith.

It just makes me sick to see priests like that. People need to stop running interference for these guys. What their doing is wrong, and destroying the church.

PRIESTS NEED TO STOP CHANGING THE WORDS OF THE SACRAMENTS! THIS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS.

 

[mgoforth]

There’s still a problem. What this priest did was still objectively wrong. If he is going to use the short form, he needs to say “I absolve you of all your sins in the name of the father…”, not anything else about “in the name of Jesus.” He CAN NOT ADD WORDS to the sacraments. That is sinful on his part, which I might point out is quite ironic during the sacrament of confession.

Priests have a duty to follow the rites of the church word for word. Having a priest protestant in his style is indeed a cross for his parishoners. But you make it sound like that is fine for the priest. Acting in a protestant manner is not OK for priests. Put aside all the ecumenical talk for a moment, and remember that the protestants are the ones who are rejecting the one, true faith. There’s no other way around it. It is a problem when a priest begins to take on the manerisims and nuances of those who reject the faith.

It just makes me sick to see priests like that. People need to stop running interference for these guys. What their doing is wrong, and destroying the church.

PRIESTS NEED TO STOP CHANGING THE WORDS OF THE SACRAMENTS! THIS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS.

I’m sorry if I was unclear. It’s hard for me to get my point across in writing sometimes. I never intended to say it was “fine for the priest”. I believe I said that I agree, he should be using the full form. However, I don’t agree that going to the Bishop is the best first step. Prayer should always be the first step. I’m sure the OP has already prayed about this matter because it sounds like they took it quite seriously. I don’t intend to say there’s anything wrong with taking it seriously. It wasn’t my intention that onmyknees should just forget about it or act like it never happened. Just trying to bring some perspective to the conversation.

Now to respond to some of your more pointed comments. No, they are not “destroying the church.” Jesus said, “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Matt 16:18 So have faith, my brother, the Church cannot be destroyed.

Also I don’t intend to “run interference” for anyone. Jesus said, “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.” Matt 5:9 I’d like to bring peace to this situation. Responding to a potentially errant priest with love and understanding will certainly produce better results than saying “it makes me sick to see priests like that”. Remember that it makes God “sick” to see you the way you are, and I am, and all of us are…as sinners. But He doesn’t fire lightening bolts on us from Heaven. He sent Jesus to love us and die for us.

You have zeal, but also a lot of anger. Let the anger go. It’s our calling as laity to love and care for our priests. If they do something wrong, let’s pray for them and talk to them about it privately first. If it’s serious and they refuse to listen, THEN go to the Bishop. But go to him with love and compassion. Tell him that you’re worried about one of his priests…not that the priest makes you sick.

Peace. :console:

 

[promethius]

There’s still a problem. What this priest did was still objectively wrong. If he is going to use the short form, he needs to say “I absolve you of all your sins in the name of the father…”, not anything else about “in the name of Jesus.” He CAN NOT ADD WORDS to the sacraments. That is sinful on his part, which I might point out is quite ironic during the sacrament of confession.

I am a bit confused as to how you know it is specifically sinful on his part…

After all, the church never teaches that something is objectively sinful, only that things are objectively grave matter or at least that they are intrinsically disordered. Whether or not something is specifically sinful depends on knowledge and freedom of the will.

No one, not even you, can look solely at the fact that something is grave matter and therefore declare unequivocally that someone has sinned.

Priests have a duty to follow the rites of the church word for word. Having a priest protestant in his style is indeed a cross for his parishoners. But you make it sound like that is fine for the priest. Acting in a protestant manner is not OK for priests. Put aside all the ecumenical talk for a moment, and remember that the protestants are the ones who are rejecting the one, true faith. There’s no other way around it. It is a problem when a priest begins to take on the manerisims and nuances of those who reject the faith.

This brings another possibility to mind, and I’m rather slapping myself in the forehead… what if this was an Anglican convert of the new Anglican Ordinariate? And here you would be calling a valid form sinful… you really should be more careful with your rash judgements…

It just makes me sick to see priests like that. People need to stop running interference for these guys.

Sick? Really? I would hate for you to peruse youtube for “liturgical abuse”, you might die if something THIS small makes you literally sick…

Let’s leave the hyperbole at the door and have a little more decorum in this discussion.

What their[sic] doing is wrong, and destroying the church.

Nothing can destroy the church. If you think that the gates of hell CAN prevail against holy mother church, then you should watch out who you’re claiming sounds “protestant”

 

[promethius]

I’m sorry if I was unclear. It’s hard for me to get my point across in writing sometimes. I never intended to say it was “fine for the priest”. I believe I said that I agree, he should be using the full form. However, I don’t agree that going to the Bishop is the best first step. Prayer should always be the first step. I’m sure the OP has already prayed about this matter because it sounds like they took it quite seriously. I don’t intend to say there’s anything wrong with taking it seriously. It wasn’t my intention that onmyknees should just forget about it or act like it never happened. Just trying to bring some perspective to the conversation.

Emphasis mine.

I heartily agree. Going to the bishop is RARELY the first step. Prayer, certainly, but then the next step is to approach the priest himself. The church has laid out a very clear plan for dealing with perceived transgressions, which is FIRST to approach the person, THEN to bring it to the higher authority of the church.

If we fail to follow these prescribed steps, then we ourselves are failing to follow church teaching on the matter… and furthermore we are failing to charitably give the person a chance to explain their legitimate reasons (if they have one) or otherwise to privately correct their vice.

Furthermore, as I just noted, another option is that the priest was from the new Anglican Ordinariate… which would make a lot of sense since he used a form of absolution which, if I remember correctly, is very similar to what I’ve heard in the rare times I attended Episcopalean services…

You have zeal, but also a lot of anger. Let the anger go. It’s our calling as laity to love and care for our priests. If they do something wrong, let’s pray for them and talk to them about it privately first. If it’s serious and they refuse to listen, THEN go to the Bishop. But go to him with love and compassion. Tell him that you’re worried about one of his priests…not that the priest makes you sick.

CAF won’t let me insert enough emoticons for me to give this all the thumbs up it should have. I used to be just like Superamazingman and the bevvy of others who “police the liturgy”, caught in a rut of angry disobedience and thinking that it was my job to enforce the standards on priests… that they OBVIOUSLY didn’t know as much as I did about the liturgy. Nobody ever caught me along the way and pointed out that it was solely myself who had laid that position on my shoulders, and it took me YEARS to realize that the anger was eating away at my faith.

That, I think, is the major pitfall of all the internet resources that are at our fingertips now… sure, knowing church teaching and standards are better… but if we allow Satan to twist that knowledge to destroy our ability to CHARITABLY respond to perceived errors, to follow the church’s standard of response to such situations, and most importantly to destroy our humble obedience to those who stand in the place of Christ, then we have failed more than we know.

 

[mgoforth]

CAF won’t let me insert enough emoticons for me to give this all the thumbs up it should have. I used to be just like Superamazingman and the bevvy of others who “police the liturgy”, caught in a rut of angry disobedience and thinking that it was my job to enforce the standards on priests… that they OBVIOUSLY didn’t know as much as I did about the liturgy. Nobody ever caught me along the way and pointed out that it was solely myself who had laid that position on my shoulders, and it took me YEARS to realize that the anger was eating away at my faith.

That, I think, is the major pitfall of all the internet resources that are at our fingertips now… sure, knowing church teaching and standards are better… but if we allow Satan to twist that knowledge to destroy our ability to CHARITABLY respond to perceived errors, to follow the church’s standard of response to such situations, and most importantly to destroy our humble obedience to those who stand in the place of Christ, then we have failed more than we know.

Thanks for the response. My thoughts were directed to myself as much as anyone else…I still fall back into anger and “holier than thou” attitudes quite a bit, but I’m really trying to work through it. I’ve realized what a huge hole in my faith this is. And it’s slowly emerging as a major focus of my Lenten studies and prayers. Just yesterday I responded to another thread and was not nearly as charitable as I should have been…I was feeling irritated by the person I was “conversing” with (really we were just bickering with each other and being sarcastic). In the end I bowed out of the discussion because I couldn’t think of a way to respond to this person that was truly inspired by love.

 

[promethius]

Thanks for the response. My thoughts were directed to myself as much as anyone else…I still fall back into anger and “holier than thou” attitudes quite a bit, but I’m really trying to work through it. I’ve realized what a huge hole in my faith this is. And it’s slowly emerging as a major focus of my Lenten studies and prayers. Just yesterday I responded to another thread and was not nearly as charitable as I should have been…I was feeling irritated by the person I was “conversing” with (really we were just bickering with each other and being sarcastic). In the end I bowed out of the discussion because I couldn’t think of a way to respond to this person that was truly inspired by love.

Mea maxima culpa, me too on the falling back into it thing. A few months ago I remarked to my girlfriend how many families were kneeling while the fathers (the “men of the family”) sat idly watching their wives and children give proper reverence. My girlfriend then, in her wonderful style, calmly said “what if they have knee problems?” I was incredulous that all of them would, but she pointed out that I have no way of knowing… and she was right, I didn’t. It helped that I injured MY knee shortly thereafter and had a few weeks where I almost didn’t kneel and it was painful for me to do so… So God teamed up with the girlfriend to teach me a lesson I guess…