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GiftofMercy
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I did not flag your reply to me, and quite frankly I do not see your reply as breaking any of CAF rules.
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catholic03
Well-known member
You said that the advice was wrong. Now I personally agree with @(name removed by moderator). The priest gave hard advice. But surely you can appreciate that although disagreeing is not always a sin, disobeying can be. I think offering it up is a great idea. Being Catholic is not meant to be like holidaying on the Italian coast. It is hard because of Our Blessed Lord’s high standards. It is therefore not easy to get to heaven, which is why the agent of Christ (the priest) gave challenging but worthwhile advice.
To say that she is blatantly wrong and to say that her advice, which echoes what the priest said, is wrong and should be disregarded is not pleasant. To say that the priest has no business to say to the OP what he said also seems like you are questioning his authority.
The priest gave a reason for withholding absolution. You may disagree with that, but you need not go around making unpleasant comments about other users.
I also do not know how you can say my judgement was rash, synonyms of which include reckless, impulsive and foolish. Am I a reckless fool for making a statement? I also feel it is a little condemning to say my take was false. Maybe I shouldn’t have said you were unkind and picky but I think your reaction was unnecessary. Then to say that any priest who knew about marriage would “be the first to understand” what you wrote is a bit presumptuous.
Anyway, I hope we can agree to disagree. May the Lord Jesus Christ always bless you.
To say that she is blatantly wrong and to say that her advice, which echoes what the priest said, is wrong and should be disregarded is not pleasant. To say that the priest has no business to say to the OP what he said also seems like you are questioning his authority.
The priest gave a reason for withholding absolution. You may disagree with that, but you need not go around making unpleasant comments about other users.
I also do not know how you can say my judgement was rash, synonyms of which include reckless, impulsive and foolish. Am I a reckless fool for making a statement? I also feel it is a little condemning to say my take was false. Maybe I shouldn’t have said you were unkind and picky but I think your reaction was unnecessary. Then to say that any priest who knew about marriage would “be the first to understand” what you wrote is a bit presumptuous.
Anyway, I hope we can agree to disagree. May the Lord Jesus Christ always bless you.
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Finn
Guest
This query has created a remarkable amount of off-topic advice and internal squabbling.And, until I break up with him, absolution would be withheld. He stated if any priest gave me absolution at this time, that priest would be committing a mortal sin.
On the basis of the facts presented by the OP, I’m at a loss to understand how the priest could validly make cessation of such a relationship a condition of absolution.
Certain behaviour inside the relationship? Of course. End the relationship entirely for a predetermined period? Perhaps the cautious suggestion of a trusted confessor or spiritual director but hardly a condition of absolution.
The pre-emptive attempt to stop the OP seeking advice/absolution from another priest - to the extent of suggesting they could be responsible for putting another priest into a state of mortal sin - is far more disturbing.
The OP is now left wondering whether it would be sinful to seek further spiritual counsel - what a terrible outcome.
OP, please - see another priest and discuss the entire situation.
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Vico
Guest
Baltimore Catechism
Q. 770. What do you mean by a firm purpose of sinning no more?
A. By a firm purpose of sinning no more I mean a fixed resolve not only to avoid all mortal sin, but also its near occasions.
Q. 771. What do you mean by the near occasions of sin?
A. By the near occasions of sin I mean all the persons, places and things that may easily lead us into sin.
Q. 772. Why are we bound to avoid occasions of sin?
A. We are bound to avoid occasions of sin because Our Lord has said: “He who loves the danger will perish in it”; and as we are bound to avoid the loss of our souls, so we are bound to avoid the danger of their loss. The occasion is the cause of sin, and you cannot take away the evil without removing its cause.
Q. 773. Is a person who is determined to avoid the sin, but who is unwilling to give up its near occasion when it is possible to do so, rightly disposed for confession?
A. A person who is determined to avoid the sin, but who is unwilling to give up its near occasion when it is possible to do so, is not rightly disposed for confession, and he will not be absolved if he makes known to the priest the true state of his conscience.
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Mary888
Guest
Take it as helpful to get clarification from your boyfriend as well. If you two have been keeping it going for quite some time while “marriage” is always on the table, but isn’t, this time, while apart, maybe you two can figure things out, about the intensity of your feelings towards one another, other than the physical attraction.I 100% agree that I need to make some changes; however, to skip right to a breakup seems extreme. Not pray together, not fast from touch, no other options; just break up, or you’re not to be forgiven.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
I am in no way saying this is what happened, but, remember when we are emotional we do not always remember things clearly (this is why I always take another person along for important doctors visits, etc.)
It is not outside the realm of possibility for a conversation to go like this:
“I confess the sin of stealing. I shoplifted 3 dresses, some jewelry and some makeup from Target.”
“Is this the first time you have shoplifted?”
“No, I have this friend, Rachel. We have always had this game where we see who can swipe the most cool thing, started when we were kids and when I am with her, we just fall back, it is our way of bonding. We start out just going to the store to get face masks, but, she looks at me and I look at her and before I know it I have three dresses in my handbag. I always go to confession the next day!”
“Well, it sounds as if being around Rachel is a near occasion of sin for you. The best way to get out of this routine is to stay away from Rachel for awhile, can you go 6 months without hanging out with her?”
“NO She is my best friend, she is also my cousin, we cannot go 6 months without seeing each other!! (begins to cry a little bit)”
“Then 3 months. Stay away from your near occasion of sin for 3 months.”
Getting more upset “I think I will just talk to Father Joe when he comes back, he always hears my confessions, he understands”
Priest “Anyone can priest shop until they find one who will tell them what they want to hear. Continuing to put yourself in a near occasion of sin, thinking ‘Father Joe will forgive me’, dear child of God, that is compounding the sin with the mortal sin of presumption.”
Pentitent gets up and leaves.
It is not outside the realm of possibility for a conversation to go like this:
“I confess the sin of stealing. I shoplifted 3 dresses, some jewelry and some makeup from Target.”
“Is this the first time you have shoplifted?”
“No, I have this friend, Rachel. We have always had this game where we see who can swipe the most cool thing, started when we were kids and when I am with her, we just fall back, it is our way of bonding. We start out just going to the store to get face masks, but, she looks at me and I look at her and before I know it I have three dresses in my handbag. I always go to confession the next day!”
“Well, it sounds as if being around Rachel is a near occasion of sin for you. The best way to get out of this routine is to stay away from Rachel for awhile, can you go 6 months without hanging out with her?”
“NO She is my best friend, she is also my cousin, we cannot go 6 months without seeing each other!! (begins to cry a little bit)”
“Then 3 months. Stay away from your near occasion of sin for 3 months.”
Getting more upset “I think I will just talk to Father Joe when he comes back, he always hears my confessions, he understands”
Priest “Anyone can priest shop until they find one who will tell them what they want to hear. Continuing to put yourself in a near occasion of sin, thinking ‘Father Joe will forgive me’, dear child of God, that is compounding the sin with the mortal sin of presumption.”
Pentitent gets up and leaves.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Lust is a sin, married or not. We need to learn to control our passions, to root out the sin of lust as we would any other deadly sin.
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edward_george1
Guest
I’m frankly quite astonished at the tone that this thread has taken on, to say nothing of the highly imprudent and unqualified advice that is going around.
To the OP, @holyholyholy, I don’t think the priest was right to impose such a burden upon you as making absolution contingent upon breaking up with your boyfriend. If I were in that situation, I would advise you to sit down and talk to your boyfriend about boundaries and chastity, and I might even offer to help mediate such a discussion. I might even ask some questions to help you sort through whether or not this relationship is worth staying in if this keeps becoming a problem. I would NEVER, I repeat NEVER withhold absolution contingent upon you breaking up with him, whether short-term or permanently. And I would certainly never further bind your conscience by telling you that it would be a mortal sin to go to another priest. This sounds incredibly manipulative, and I would find another priest very soon and confess to him if I were you. That said, you do need to think about the relationship with your boyfriend and how you could better set boundaries, etc.
To all of those who are making the frankly idiotic suggestion that they should “just get married,” I can’t believe what I’m hearing. If a couple came into my office and told me they wanted to get married just because they can’t maintain chastity, I would be duty bound to refuse them. Marriage is to be entered into because the couple desire a permanent, fruitful, and exclusive union with one another. It is meant for the mutual sanctification of the spouses and the education of children. It is NOT meant to give legitimacy to your continued using of one another as objects of lust. Yes, lust is possible within marriage, use is possible within marriage, even if both people consent to it and aren’t feeling forced. St. John Paul II is quite clear about this in Theology of the Body.
I wasn’t going to weigh in, but this thread went too far. It got really weird and really ugly. Please, people, if you’re out of your depth, just admit it and move on, and don’t continue trying to help in ways that might end up hurting someone.
-Fr ACEGC
To the OP, @holyholyholy, I don’t think the priest was right to impose such a burden upon you as making absolution contingent upon breaking up with your boyfriend. If I were in that situation, I would advise you to sit down and talk to your boyfriend about boundaries and chastity, and I might even offer to help mediate such a discussion. I might even ask some questions to help you sort through whether or not this relationship is worth staying in if this keeps becoming a problem. I would NEVER, I repeat NEVER withhold absolution contingent upon you breaking up with him, whether short-term or permanently. And I would certainly never further bind your conscience by telling you that it would be a mortal sin to go to another priest. This sounds incredibly manipulative, and I would find another priest very soon and confess to him if I were you. That said, you do need to think about the relationship with your boyfriend and how you could better set boundaries, etc.
To all of those who are making the frankly idiotic suggestion that they should “just get married,” I can’t believe what I’m hearing. If a couple came into my office and told me they wanted to get married just because they can’t maintain chastity, I would be duty bound to refuse them. Marriage is to be entered into because the couple desire a permanent, fruitful, and exclusive union with one another. It is meant for the mutual sanctification of the spouses and the education of children. It is NOT meant to give legitimacy to your continued using of one another as objects of lust. Yes, lust is possible within marriage, use is possible within marriage, even if both people consent to it and aren’t feeling forced. St. John Paul II is quite clear about this in Theology of the Body.
I wasn’t going to weigh in, but this thread went too far. It got really weird and really ugly. Please, people, if you’re out of your depth, just admit it and move on, and don’t continue trying to help in ways that might end up hurting someone.
-Fr ACEGC
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1ke
Guest
Father, it is even more troubling than that. The priest told her that any other priest who absolved her would himself be committing a mortal sin for doing so.And I would certainly never further bind your conscience by telling you that it would be a mortal sin to go to another priest.
Something is very wrong in this scenario.
Thank you for weighing in because I too was very concerned with some of the responses I was seeing.
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adgloriam
Guest
You can cause someone scandal and grave damage by opinion and opinionated disagreeing.disagreeing is not always a sin, disobeying can be.
to say nothing of the highly imprudent and unqualified advice that is going around.
99% of priests would never tell anyone:“break up” (less so under the circumstance described)!!!why the agent of Christ (the priest) gave challenging
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)St. John Paul II is quite clear about this in Theology of the Body.
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edward_george1
Guest
Which is a flat-out lie, of course. And very manipulative.Father, it is even more troubling than that. The priest told her that any other priest who absolved her would himself be committing a mortal sin for doing so.
Ain’t that the truth…Something is very wrong in this scenario.
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edward_george1
Guest
It is hard because of Our Blessed Lord’s high standards. It is therefore not easy to get to heaven, which is why the agent of Christ (the priest) gave challenging but worthwhile advice.
But the Lord makes it easy to access him in the sacraments. And the way the law is worded with regards to the administration of the sacraments, the principle of charity is always observed. The faithful have a right to the sacraments if they are not legally impeded (the OP was not) and are properly disposed (nothing indicated she wasn’t). The priest gave a reason for withholding absolution. It wasn’t a good one.The priest gave a reason for withholding absolution. You may disagree with that, but you need not go around making unpleasant comments about other users.
In short, we give the benefit of the doubt to the one confessing and let God handle the rest. I’m sorry, but your take on this is not truly helpful.
-Fr ACEGC
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” Matthew 11:28-30
There is nowhere in Scripture where Jesus makes it difficult for souls to make it into heaven. This was the construct the Pharisees created, of which he opposed.
Divine Mercy Sunday, also contradicts the idea that salvation is too difficult for most
Jim
There is nowhere in Scripture where Jesus makes it difficult for souls to make it into heaven. This was the construct the Pharisees created, of which he opposed.
Divine Mercy Sunday, also contradicts the idea that salvation is too difficult for most
Jim
A
aroosi
Guest
Father, I am one of the people that suggested to get married but I think I was completely misunderstood so please let me clarify my post.
I am not saying that you should just get married with the first person you meet in the street so that you can ‘have a free pass’ to satisfy your lust. Not at all.
OP said they are adults and discussed many times about getting married. I think of engagement period as a time of discernment but how long is that discernment time going to last. For my own experience the longer the engagement period is the higher is the chance to enter these scenarios:
-you feel the person is not right for you but breaking up is really hard because with a long time spent together there is a strong bound
-if you are healthy and young purity for several years becomes very hard and even more unlikely if the fiancee doesn’t share the same vision and/or religion
-the discernment time becomes a limbo and a comfortable carefree routine, what is the need to get married and start a family?
I have been in OP shoes, I am just trying to tell her not to drag for a long time making a choice about her future together with her boyfriend (if she thinks he is the person she wants to built a family and a future together) or about finding an other person that share her values and life vision.
I am not saying that you should just get married with the first person you meet in the street so that you can ‘have a free pass’ to satisfy your lust. Not at all.
OP said they are adults and discussed many times about getting married. I think of engagement period as a time of discernment but how long is that discernment time going to last. For my own experience the longer the engagement period is the higher is the chance to enter these scenarios:
-you feel the person is not right for you but breaking up is really hard because with a long time spent together there is a strong bound
-if you are healthy and young purity for several years becomes very hard and even more unlikely if the fiancee doesn’t share the same vision and/or religion
-the discernment time becomes a limbo and a comfortable carefree routine, what is the need to get married and start a family?
I have been in OP shoes, I am just trying to tell her not to drag for a long time making a choice about her future together with her boyfriend (if she thinks he is the person she wants to built a family and a future together) or about finding an other person that share her values and life vision.
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Dolphin
Guest
This is why it’s good to have a regular confessor
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IdaCatholic
Guest
The problem with threads like these is that you only have the OPs version of what she understood. So now we have everybody on the thread judging a priest as unmercifully abusing a sacrament. I think either there is more to the story or the OP needs to meet with the priest to clarify. If the priest is so adamant about this advice he should have no problem investing time into this couple. Something doesnt add up here. And our charity should certainly extend to the priest involved.
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adgloriam
Guest
That’s a cliché, unpacking the last buzzword would yield an entire book.I think of engagement period as a time of discernment
What’s worst about the cliché: It neglects (and downplays) the persons are already in a relationship. So the word “Responsibility” has to precede the cliché in emphasis, exchanging the buzzword “discernment” for something more workable and concrete, namely:“Responsibility”.
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tafan2
Guest
I have to wonder if it’s not a misunderstanding, perhaps it was a warning that it would be a mortal sin for the OP to go to another priest for absolution? Even that is strange though.
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tafan2
Guest
There is no doubt there comes a time in long relationships when it is time to fish or cut bait. I did not see how long the OP and her boyfriend have been dating. If it has been several years, the imo, it’s time to either get engaged or follow the priests advice and break up. Long relationships prior to engagements are not a good thing in my opinion. If one is dating, it seems to me one is looking for a spouse. If a couple, who are looking for a spouse and discerning marraige, cannot figure out if they are right for each other after several years, they should give up and move on. I do not know if this applies to the OP.
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Sbee0
Guest
Are you sure the priest put it that way? I understand it is grave sin for a priest to not withhold absolution when someone is not truly penitent nor has any intention of repenting from that sin but I wouldn’t think one priest would be able to make a general declaration of whether other priests are incurring sin or not based on your confession to him.Just had a strange situation occur and could use some (name removed by moderator)ut. My boyfriend and I have been struggling with impurity and nearing fornication for some time; I have confessed it multiple times, and we keep falling into the same sins. I confessed this to a new priest today. After some inquiry, he stated that I needed to remove the occasion of sin (which I agree with), but then stated that the only way to do so would be to break up with my boyfriend for 3-6 months. And, until I break up with him, absolution would be withheld. He stated if any priest gave me absolution at this time, that priest would be committing a mortal sin.
My understanding of withholding absolution is that it can basically be done for two reasons: lack of contrition (which is not the case here, though my contrition may be imperfect rather than perfect), or the confessor’s refusal to make changes in the direction of discontinuing the sin. I 100% agree that I need to make some changes; however, to skip right to a breakup seems extreme. Not pray together, not fast from touch, no other options; just break up, or you’re not to be forgiven.
I guess my question is thus: is it sinful/disobedient of me to go to another priest, explain the situation honestly, and try to get a second opinion? Or am I truly faced with the option of breaking up with a man I’m nearly convinced I may be called to marry? Thank you and pray for me.
Removing that near occasion of sin can be absolutely tough to do. Believe me, I know. Jesus did talk about what to do if your eye causes you to sin… and that’s what needs to happen. Wouldn’t hurt I think to get the second opinion for an alternative that would do that short of a breakup. If that doesn’t work though… unfortunately you know what needs to happen. Imo
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