Absolution?

[mlz]

I am not Catholic however I went on a Koinania retreat and during Mass during the time everyone is given the Body and Blood of Christ I knew I couldn’t and just started crying. The priest talked to me afterwards and we had a quite long discussion. Near the end of our conversation he gave me a medal which he said was blessed and from Medagorie (sp?), Then…he prayed for me and said “I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit”. It’s been a few years and I now know that you can only recieve absolution if you are Catholic. So my question is this…was the absolution valid?

Just wondering…
mlz

 

[Vico]

I am not Catholic however I went on a Koinania retreat and during Mass during the time everyone is given the Body and Blood of Christ I knew I couldn’t and just started crying. The priest talked to me afterwards and we had a quite long discussion. Near the end of our conversation he gave me a medal which he said was blessed and from Medagorie (sp?), Then…he prayed for me and said “I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit”. It’s been a few years and I now know that you can only recieve absolution if you are Catholic. So my question is this…was the absolution valid?

Just wondering…
mlz

Penance, Eucharist, and Anointing of the Sick are licitly given to any Christian faithful, not just Catholics, according to the canon law of the Latin Church CIC and the Eastern Churches CCEO. It requires a valid baptism however and not all Christian communities have that, and also the proper disposition of the faithful.

 

[Little_One0307]

Penance, Eucharist, and Anointing of the Sick are licitly given to any Christian faithful, not just Catholics, according to the canon law of the Latin Church CIC and the Eastern Churches CCEO. It requires a valid baptism however and not all Christian communities have that, and also the proper disposition of the faithful.

Code of Canon Law

Canon 844

1. Catholic ministers may licitly administer the sacraments to Catholic members of the Christain faithful only and, likewise the latter may licitly receive the sacraments only from Catholic ministers with due regard for 2, 3, and 4 of this canon and canon 861 no. 2. [which has to do with minister of baptism.]

1. Catholic ministers may licitly administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist and annointing of the sick to members of the oriental churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church, if they ask on their own for the sacraments and are properly disposed. This holds also for members of other churches, which in the judgemnt of the Apostolic See are in the same condition as the oriental churches as far as these sacraments are concerned. [Protestant Churches not included in this canon.]

1. If the danger of death is present or other grave ncessity, in the judgement of the diocesan bishop or the conference of bishops, Catholic ministers may licitly administer these sacaments to other Christains who do not have full communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and on their own ask for it, provided they manifest Catholic faith in these sacraments and are properly disposed.

I include all this so my reply can make sense. The absolution given was not valid. The OP does not fit into any of these categories. Does not sound like there was a danger of death or grace necessity.

God bless.

 

[dans0622]

Code of Canon Law, Canon 844…The absolution given was not valid. The OP does not fit into any of these categories. Does not sound like there was a danger of death or grace necessity. …

Hello LittleOne0307,

Wouldn’t it seem that the important word in c. 844 is “licitly”? There is no mention of validity or invalidity there. So, according to c. 844, the situation discussed in this thread was probably illicit. But, regarding validity, I would examine that scenario by asking the following questions:

–did the priest have the faculty to absolve?
–was the “penitent” baptized?
–was the “penitent” contrite?
–did the “penitent”, if in mortal sin, make an integral confession?
–did the “penitent” have any intention to confess and be absolved?

These questions (perhaps others that I am not thinking of) would touch upon the validity of the absolution.

Dan

 

[Little_One0307]

Hello LittleOne0307,

Wouldn’t it seem that the important word in c. 844 is “licitly”? There is no mention of validity or invalidity there. So, according to c. 844, the situation discussed in this thread was probably illicit. But, regarding validity, I would examine that scenario by asking the following questions:

–did the priest have the faculty to absolve?
–was the “penitent” baptized?
–was the “penitent” contrite?
–did the “penitent”, if in mortal sin, make an integral confession?
–did the “penitent” have any intention to confess and be absolved?

These questions (perhaps others that I am not thinking of) would touch upon the validity of the absolution.

Dan

Dan,

Hi. You do make a good point. Yet, based on what the OP described none of that entered into their post. I would still hold that the Absolution was not valid in this case.

God bless.

 

[Spirithound]

I am not Catholic however I went on a Koinania retreat and during Mass during the time everyone is given the Body and Blood of Christ I knew I couldn’t and just started crying. The priest talked to me afterwards and we had a quite long discussion. Near the end of our conversation he gave me a medal which he said was blessed and from Medagorie (sp?), Then…he prayed for me and said “I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit”. It’s been a few years and I now know that you can only recieve absolution if you are Catholic. So my question is this…was the absolution valid?

Absolution is given to Christians who have been baptized and who either are Catholic, or are about to become Catholic. Absolution is not given to the typical Protestant because they do not intend to cease living the sin of being Protestant. That being said, I cannot say whether your absolution was valid. It might just depend on whether you believed it was valid. It is clear that the weekend, and especially witnessing the Eucharist was a grace-filled time for you.

 

[Bookcat]

Absolution is not given to the typical Protestant because they do not intend to cease living the sin of being Protestant.

I would say that such is not the reason…

This is not the way the Church would phrase relations with protestant Christians (see CCC).

As for the reason…yes not being in full communion with us is usually part of it. But there are exceptions where Protestants who are not in full communion still can receive the sacrament. (See CIC quoted above). But also remember that Eastern Orthodox are in a somewhat different boat…though admittedly they are in very close communion in comparison.

As for validity… well…such is hard to say. Certainly it was not licit (unless the Bishop approved…it would be at his judgment…perhaps there could be in some diocese general directives given for persons with grave reasons?? I do not know)…it should not have happened…and maybe he meant to give a blessing…I even had a priest (elderly) give me a blessing when intending to give me absolution…but I corrected him and he then gave absolution…the words are very close and given the setting maybe he slipped…I wait for the day when the Priest baptizes me instead hee hee. And certainly normally a person is to be making a confession…but as to the possibility of it being valid in this odd circumstance…that would be a matter for the decision of the Church…though of course God knows

But I would add as a convert…come on in …the water is fine in fact it is splendid!

 

[nightranger]

So my question is this…was the absolution valid?

Just wondering…
mlz

Sounds like a question for Fr. Serpa. (a priest on this forum). Just become catholic and you won’t wonder anymore.

 

[LilyM]

If the OP was baptised Catholic then there’s a good chance it was both
valid and licit - after all, any lapsed Catholic (including those who lapse into other Christian denominations) may reconcile with the Church at any time through the sacrament of penance, no?

 

[Spirithound]

This is not the way the Church would phrase relations with protestant Christians (see CCC).

It seems that you are correct that what I said is no longer the pastoral thing to say. How about this: Believing things that are against Catholic teaching is objectively sinful, even if subjectively, culpability is mitigated for whatever reason. Nevertheless, as long as one does not intend to change the objectively sinful behaviour, then one is not contrite, and can therefore not be absolved.

 

[thistle]

I am not Catholic however I went on a Koinania retreat and during Mass during the time everyone is given the Body and Blood of Christ I knew I couldn’t and just started crying. The priest talked to me afterwards and we had a quite long discussion. Near the end of our conversation he gave me a medal which he said was blessed and from Medagorie (sp?), Then…he prayed for me and said “I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit”. It’s been a few years and I now know that you can only recieve absolution if you are Catholic. So my question is this…was the absolution valid?

Just wondering…
mlz

You haven’t given enough information. You said you are a Protestant but you do not mention if you have been baptised or not. Are you Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran or what and have you been baptised?

As for receiving Communion non-Catholics and Catholics in a state of mortal sin are not permitted to receive. The only exception (and it would also depend on your beliefs) is as Little One quoted in her post from Canon Law about non-Catholic Christians might be able to receive in danger of death or for some other grave reason. Attending a retreat does not qualify.

I would agree with the posters that say your absolution was not valid and I’m also surprised the priest distributed Communion to non-Catholics. With the danger of death and other grave reasons exception that is not allowed.

Having said all that I shouldn’t have been surprised considering the priest is giving out something blessed in Mejugorie, albeit that does not necessarily mean the priest believes in the alleged apparitions there. Medjugorie is a contentious issue and has not been approved by the Church. Many of the priests supporting the alleged apparitions have had their faculties suspended and cannot say Mass or hear Confessions so I hope the medal was not blessed by one of them.

 

[Bookcat]

It seems that you are correct that what I said is no longer the pastoral thing to say. How about this: Believing things that are against Catholic teaching is objectively sinful, even if subjectively, culpability is mitigated for whatever reason. Nevertheless, as long as one does not intend to change the objectively sinful behaviour, then one is not contrite, and can therefore not be absolved.

It is not just the pastoral thing…

Such is not how the Church looks at it …otherwise the Church would not have **any **provisions for Protestants to licitly receive the Sacraments of confession or even Eucharist in rare circumstances (while they yet remain Protestants).

(one can even be completely not-culpable for things one does not know remember…)

 

[joanofarc2008]

Dan,

Hi. You do make a good point. Yet, based on what the OP described none of that entered into their post. I would still hold that the Absolution was not valid in this case.

God bless.

I would go with the combination of the information given by the Dan in the thread knowing Dan’s background and the information probably obtained by the priest on the ground. We often do not give our priests enough credit that they collected the necessary information and think we as lay people know better?

Below is the 26th Admonition of St Francis of Assisi:

26. That the Servants of God should honor Clerics.

Blessed is the servant of God who exhibits confidence in clerics who live uprightly according to the form of the holy Roman Church. And woe to those who despise them: for even though they [the clerics] may be sinners, nevertheless no one ought to judge them, because the Lord Himself reserves to Himself alone the right of judging them. For as the administration with which they are charged, to wit, of the most holy Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, which they receive and which they alone administer to others—is greater than all others, even so the sin of those who offend against them is greater than any against all the other men in this world.

 

[Little_One0307]

I would go with the combination of the information given by the Dan in the thread knowing Dan’s background and the information probably obtained by the priest on the ground. We often do not give our priests enough credit that they collected the necessary information and think we as lay people know better?

Below is the 26th Admonition of St Francis of Assisi:

Hmmm, I do not think that I was the only one that said that this Confession was invalid as well. Why did you not bring up the other posters that said the Confession was not valid as well, why only single out my post? I am just wondering. Fair is fair after all. I don’t mind your post at all, what I do mind is that in your post you did not quote the others that said the Confession was invalid as well. Are they also not “giving our priests enough credit that they collected the necesary information and think we as lay people know better?”

And there were other considerations that I made as well before posting that post as well. Would it surpised you that I also sought the advice of a priest as well ?

I also like the fact that you said this. “We often do not give our priests enough credit that they collected the necessary information and think we as lay people know better?” I never made such a claim in my post.

If this post sounds uncharitable this is not my intention.

God bless.

 

[joanofarc2008]

Hmmm, I do not think that I was the only one that said that this Confession was invalid as well. Why did you not bring up the other posters that said the Confession was not valid as well, why only single out my post? I am just wondering. Fair is fair after all. I don’t mind your post at all, what I do mind is that in your post you did not quote the others that said the Confession was invalid as well. Are they also not “giving our priests enough credit that they collected the necesary information and think we as lay people know better?”

And there were other considerations that I made as well before posting that post as well. Would it surpised you that I also sought the advice of a priest as well ?

I also like the fact that you said this. “We often do not give our priests enough credit that they collected the necessary information and think we as lay people know better?” I never made such a claim in my post.

If this post sounds uncharitable this is not my intention.

God bless.

For the very reason that there is only so much room on a CAF post and that you just questioned not only the priest but ALSO someone who has credentials without giving it a second thought. It was not that your post was uncharitable it was that we should not walk around doing these things unless we ourselves our educated to the same level of the people that we are questioning. I do apologize for not quoting everyone but like I said there is a word limit.

 

[Little_One0307]

For the very reason that there is only so much room on a CAF post and that you just questioned not only the priest but ALSO someone who has credentials without giving it a second thought. It was not that your post was uncharitable it was that we should not walk around doing these things unless we ourselves our educated to the same level of the people that we are questioning. I do apologize for not quoting everyone but like I said there is a word limit.

I was not aware that CAF posts had a word limit, I have seen some extremely long posts in many other threads. I for one have made many long posts with many words and multi-quotes in them, it takes a lot of work, which hmmmm I wonder if you were willing to do?

And secondly, why are you assuming that my education may not be on par with Dan’s? You may know his background, but you do not know mine, nor a majority’s here on the forum, and yet you make broad sweeping statements such as in your last reply.

So, with all this said and done. I still hold to my position of the absolution being invalid.

I meant no insult to Dan, and I think it is quite funny that Dan has not responded to the thread, but it was you. Just something to ponder on.

God bless.

 

[thistle]

I was not aware that CAF posts had a word limit, I have seen some extremely long posts in many other threads. I for one have made many long posts with many words and multi-quotes in them, it takes a lot of work, which hmmmm I wonder if you were willing to do?

And secondly, why are you assuming that my education may not be on par with Dan’s? You may know his background, but you do not know mine, nor a majority’s here on the forum, and yet you make broad sweeping statements such as in your last reply.

So, with all this said and done. I still hold to my position of the absolution being invalid.

I meant no insult to Dan, and I think it is quite funny that Dan has not responded to the thread, but it was you. Just something to ponder on.

God bless.

I agree with you. Based on the information given by the OP the absolution is not valid.

 

[dans0622]

…
I meant no insult to Dan, and I think it is quite funny that Dan has not responded to the thread, …

Hello again,

I haven’t responded because I had nothing else to say… Until the OP gives more information, I have no opinion and no answer in regard to the question he/she asked. I can see why some would say “invalid” and why others would say “valid.”

I think the most important point is to encourage the OP to complete the journey and receive the grace of a certainly valid absolution.

Dan

 

[joanofarc2008]

I was not aware that CAF posts had a word limit, I have seen some extremely long posts in many other threads. I for one have made many long posts with many words and multi-quotes in them, it takes a lot of work, which hmmmm I wonder if you were willing to do?

And secondly, why are you assuming that my education may not be on par with Dan’s? You may know his background, but you do not know mine, nor a majority’s here on the forum, and yet you make broad sweeping statements such as in your last reply.

So, with all this said and done. I still hold to my position of the absolution being invalid.

I meant no insult to Dan, and I think it is quite funny that Dan has not responded to the thread, but it was you. Just something to ponder on.

God bless.

It was not just Dan’s education it was also the benefit of the doubt given to the priest on the ground to have collected the information. I apologize if you have the same background as Dan and I have overlooked but most people that work where Dan works on a daily basis are not going to off the cuff question priests without giving some room for benefit of the doubt which in my opinion you did not.

Granted I did not say all - I said most. I also said my opinion.

Also - CAF does have a character limit which I have gone over many times and have had to scale back - a simple reading of the forum rules would have told you this.

But hey if you want to accuse me of being lazy thats OK - go right ahead. I know sloth isn’t an issue.

 

[Little_One0307]

Hello again,

I haven’t responded because I had nothing else to say… Until the OP gives more information, I have no opinion and no answer in regard to the question he/she asked. I can see why some would say “invalid” and why others would say “valid.”

I think the most important point is to encourage the OP to complete the journey and receive the grace of a certainly valid absolution.

Dan

Hi Dan,

I agree with you on this. Perhaps the OP should post a bit more information, and I am open much open to whatever the OP has to post more, that my orginal assesment of it being invalid to changing.

I am in agreement with the OP being encouraged to seeking the grace of valid absolution and coming to the Catholic Church.

God bless.