"Abstain ... from blood, from meats of strangled animals"

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Hey all,

I was at bible study last week, and we were reading through Acts. When we came across Acts 15:28-29:
‘It is the decision of the holy Spirit and of us not to place on you any burden beyond these necessities, namely, to abstain from meat sacrificed to idols, from blood, from meats of strangled animals, and from unlawful marriage. If you keep free of these, you will be doing what is right. Farewell.’
we were a bit confused by this prohibition against eating the meat of strangled animals and blood, because we couldn’t think of when this was ever lifted by the church. Was it ever lifted? Or did it happen very early on in the church history and we just hadn’t heard?

Thanks!

Christopher Michael Blaise
 
I was listening to a talk by Scott Hahn just this morning (SalvationHistory.Com - Bible Studies - Gospel of St. Paul - Lesson 05) and he said this ban was officially lifted in the 14th century. I can’t recall the name of the Ecumenical council that lifted it, though.
 
But why lift it? It says that if you were to abstain from those things, you’d be doing what was right. If you lift the restrictions, that simply makes doing them “not wrong”. Thereby, abstaining from them would still be preferable.

And for goodness sakes, they even stated the we placing the least possible burdens on them! 😛

Regardless, I hoped they managed to separate dietary restrictions from that one on “unlawful marriage” at the council. :eek:

:rotfl:
 
It’s hard to imagine quoting all those rules in one sentence, particularly about consuming blood and then the unlawful marriages.

The connection is that these things were forbidden under the commands of God at Sinai.

As you read through the written Torah (first five books of the Bible), mankind is not allowed to eat anything from animals until after the flood of Noah’s time, when God changed the commandment.

Animals were supposed to be sacrificed in the most humane way, as quickly as possible, and so, not strangled as a routine. This is still an important Jewish (“Kosher”) dietary rule for everyday food.

The prohibition about consuming blood was thought to be a command related to not imitating pagan religious cults that existed in the Middle East. As you read the command in Exodus and Leviticus, the explanation, when it is given, is that the “life” is in the blood and the life (and so the blood) belongs to God.

Meat was salted to help remove the remaining blood from an animal carcass.

The commands about unlawful marriages usually relate to either not marrying someone who is too closely related to you, or there are the commands not to marry outside the nation of Israel. The latter are probably related to the idea of not allowing people who practice pagan religions to “marry in” and spread their beliefs and detract from the worship of the LORD.

The former marriage rules were simply commands from God, and they also probably related to discouraging practices of neighboring pagan cults.

The overall topic here is how Christ has “fulfilled” the old covenant and which of the old practices and laws are to be followed and which not. I’m studying the OT right now just for that reason, to understand what these laws might mean,so that I can look at the NT and see what that means as well. It’s the essential subject: What is the new covenant that Christ bought by His blood?
 
But why lift it? It says that if you were to abstain from those things, you’d be doing what was right. If you lift the restrictions, that simply makes doing them “not wrong”. Thereby, abstaining from them would still be preferable.
My thoughts exactly! That’s why we were surprised that no one (as far as we knew) really took this prohibition to heart anymore, especially since the first three prohibitions are essentially about keeping kosher. I find it particularly interesting that no protestant denominations that I know of observe kashrut in light of this scripture.
And for goodness sakes, they even stated the we placing the least possible burdens on them!
Haha, true! But then again, I seem to remember two people were only forbidden from eating an apple and they still succumbed ;). Like Oscar Wilde said, “I can resist everything except temptation.”
Regardless, I hoped they managed to separate dietary restrictions from that one on “unlawful marriage” at the council.

Indeed! 😃

Christopher Michael Blaise
 
The overall topic here is how Christ has “fulfilled” the old covenant and which of the old practices and laws are to be followed and which not.
Ah, I see. So would you say that this is just a reflection of how the growing church was recognizing the fulfillment of the old law and declaring its obsolescence?

Christopher Michael Blaise
 
Ah, I see. So would you say that this is just a reflection of how the growing church was recognizing the fulfillment of the old law and declaring its obsolescence?

Christopher Michael Blaise
Mmm! :ouch:

Yeesh! I don’t know, mate, something about obsolescence…

I mean, it’s not like most of the rules don’t apply anymore. Or is it? I’ve never really understood the “fulfillment of the Law” thing truth be told.

I personally think it something of a shame the Church largely fell away from its Jewish roots. Especially after going through the whole of the Old Testament, it ends up being as though the chosen people fell off the map. Next time you see them, somebody’s persecuting them. Again.
 
How many people do you know who actually DO eat the meat of strangled animals? No abbatoir I know uses this method of killing, neither do the people that I know who butcher their own game.

As for blood - as far as I know every butcher bleeds the animal carcases after slaughter, the meat tastes better if this is done or something. (Course I might be wrong, I’m not an expert). Of course there’s black pudding to consider and so on …
 
I mean, it’s not like most of the rules don’t apply anymore. Or is it? I’ve never really understood the “fulfillment of the Law” thing truth be told.

I personally think it something of a shame the Church largely fell away from its Jewish roots. Especially after going through the whole of the Old Testament, it ends up being as though the chosen people fell off the map. Next time you see them, somebody’s persecuting them. Again.
It was a tough time for Christians. Jerusalem was pushing for following the law while people like Paul were saying the law is pointless now (“if salvation comes through the law, Christ died for nothing” Gal 2:21)

The biggest group of converts were predominately women, not only that but Gentile women. Paul was having great success converting the gentile nation. The apostles and elders who were in charge in Jerusalem were predominately Jewish with Jewish leanings. Jesus Himself was a Jew. The issue at hand in Acts 15 (and Paul gives his account of the event in Gal 1-2) is what sort of law should people who are not Jew, but still believe in Jesus, follow?

The 4 “rules” or “laws” brought up in Acts 15 are a part of 7 that every rabbi would know from before Jesus was even born. They were rules for non-Jews to follow if they want to be in the community of Jews who have over 600 rules. A sort of basic basics so you can participate. Jews could not eat with Gentiles if the gentiles provided the food because Jews could not eat meat (meals of meat rare anyways) from a inhumanely killed animal, or an animal sacrificed to a pagan god, or blood. So if a non-Jew wanted to participate they couldn’t do, at the very least, those things either. Then they threw in no illicit marriages or sexual unions to be safe. I forget what the other 3 were, sorry.

It is a pretty complicated issue. Should the budding church of Christ enforce Jewish law or not? There is a lot of writings on this topic of Acts 15 and Gal 1-2. I believe the predominant Catholic scholar teaching is that Luke telescoped two separate “councils” (one on circumcision and one on the dietary laws) into one in acts 15 therefore Paul wasn’t there to say, or not to say, his deal for the dietary laws.

I took a New Testament class (secular) and this: Acts 15 and Gal 1-2 and reconciling Paul and the Jerusalem “council” was the entire Final a lot of issues at play.
I personally think it something of a shame the Church largely fell away from its Jewish roots.
Only in this way could it evangelize to a pagan world. But there is still plenty of Jewish practice in Catholicism, most in disguise. Here’s a central one, check out the 4th blessing cup in passover meals. Then look at scripture accounts of Jesus’ passover meal and where the 4th blessing is. Hint: 4th blessing cup = Jesus 😉
 
I was listening to a talk by Scott Hahn just this morning (SalvationHistory.Com - Bible Studies - Gospel of St. Paul - Lesson 05) and he said this ban was officially lifted in the 14th century. I can’t recall the name of the Ecumenical council that lifted it, though.
Ecumenical Council of Florence, Session 11, 4 February 1442

It firmly believes, professes and teaches that every creature of God is good and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because according to the word of the Lord not what goes into the mouth defiles a person, and because the difference in the Mosaic law between clean and unclean foods belongs to ceremonial practices, which have passed away and lost their efficacy with the coming of the gospel. It also declares that the apostolic prohibition, to abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled, was suited to that time when a single church was rising from Jews and gentiles, who previously lived with different ceremonies and customs. This was so that the gentiles should have some observances in common with Jews, and occasion would be offered of coming together in one worship and faith of God and a cause of dissension might be removed, since by ancient custom blood and strangled things seemed abominable to Jews, and gentiles could be thought to be returning to idolatry if they ate sacrificial food. In places, however, where the Christian religion has been promulgated to such an extent that no Jew is to be met with and all have joined the church, uniformly practicing the same rites and ceremonies of the gospel and believing that to the clean all things are clean, since the cause of that apostolic prohibition has ceased, so its effect has ceased. It condemns, then, no kind of food that human society accepts and nobody at all neither man nor woman, should make a distinction between animals, no matter how they died; although for the health of the body, for the practice of virtue or for the sake of regular and ecclesiastical discipline many things that are not proscribed can and should be omitted, as the apostle says all things are lawful, but not all are helpful.
 
Like a previous post said, I too, don’t have my arms around this “fulfillment” stuff that Christ did. I believe it, but I don’t know quite how the early Church sifted out what didn’t have to be followed any more.

Certainly, the primary cultic ritual of Judaism was circumcision. So, that should be a landmark case to build on, in this thread.

Otherwise, it must be said that Christ fulfilled one of the prophecies in that He brought a new covenant. So, the provisions of the old covenant did not apply, but the provisions of the new covenant DO apply. I can think it through up to this point.

but, then, I’m at a loss about the things that Christ referred to in Mt 28 ('teach them to observe all that I have commanded") and otherwise what is commanded by the “new testament”. Those would be the conditions of the new covenant.

In the least, I think we’d need new laws about purification and sanctification, which so often in the NT we refer to under the heading of things like salvation and righteousness.

But, I don’t know of any NT writing that makes this clear or, especially, concise. Just start with “do good, avoid evil” and take it from there?
 
Commentry for Acts: 15:28-29
haydock1859.tripod.com/id130.html

Ver. 28. It hath seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us. To us in these matters, wherein by the promises of Christ, we are directed by the Holy Ghost, the spirit of truth, &c. — Than these necessary things. Necessary at this juncture, and always, if we except that order of abstaining from blood, and things strangled, which was not a perpetual, unchangeable precept, but to last only for a time, as St. Chrysostom observes. (Witham) — This is the first general council held in the Church, and the model of all succeeding ones. In it the apostles, in a commanding and authoritative manner, laid down the law, which was to be the guide of the faithful, knowing they had a right to impose any regulations in the Church, and that they could not employ this authority but to good purposes, directed as they were by the unerring spirit of truth, which Christ had promised (Matthew xxviii. 20.) should remain with his Church for ever. Hence it would appear that we have no more ground refusing obedience to the voice of the Church at present, than at her first establishment: and that those who will not hear the Church now, speaking in her Councils, would with as little ceremony have opposed the apostles on this occasion, had they lived at the time. By what spirit of seduction has been introduced, and spread, to such an alarming extent, the opinion, that Christianity (the very leading feature of which is to hear and to obey) authorizes unrestricted liberty? Is then authority an unmeaning word? (Haydock)

Ver. 29. From blood, and from things strangled. The use of these things, though of their own nature indifferent, were here prohibited, to bring the Jews more easily to admit of the society of the Gentiles; and to exercise the latter in obedience. But this prohibition was but temporary, and has long since ceased to oblige; more especially in the western churches. (Challoner) — See note on ver. 20, above.
1Tim:4:3 ‘‘Everything God has created us good, and no food is to be rejected provided grace is said for it:’’
Ver. 3. Forbidding to marry, to abstain from meats, &c. Here says St. Chrysostom[1] are foretold and denoted the heretics called Encratites, the Marcionites, Manicheans, &c. who condemned all marriages as evil, as may be seen in St. Irenæus, Epiphanius, St. Augustine, Theodoret, &c. These heretics held a god who was the author of good things, and another god who was the author or cause of all evils; among the latter they reckoned, marriages, fleshmeats, wine, &c. The doctrine of Catholics is quite different, when they condemn the marriages of priests and of such as have made a vow to God to lead always a single life; or when the Church forbids persons to eat flesh in Lent, or on fasting-days, unless their health require it. We hold that marriage in itself is not only honourable, but a sacrament of divine institution. We believe and profess that the same only true God is the author of all creatures which are good of themselves; that all eatables are to be eaten with thanksgiving, and none of them to be rejected, as coming from the author of evil. When we condemn priests for marrying, it is for breaking their vows and promises made to God of living unmarried, and of leading a more perfect life; we condemn them with the Scripture, which teaches us that vows made are to be kept; with St. Paul, who in the next chap. (ver. 12) teaches us, that they who break such vows incur their damnation. When the Church, which we are commanded to obey, enjoins abstinence from flesh, or puts a restraint as to the times of eating on days of humiliation and fasting, it is by way of self-denial and mortification: so that it is not the meats, but the transgression of the precept, that on such occasions defiles the consciences of the transgressors. “You will object, (says St. Chrysostom) that we hinder persons from marrying; God forbid,” &c. St. Augustine, (lib. 30. contra Faustum. chap. vi.) “You see (says he) the great difference in abstaining from meats for mortification sake, and as if God was not the author of them.” We may observe that God, in the law of Moses, prohibited swine’s flesh and many other eatables; and that even the apostles, in the Council of Jerusalem, forbad the Christians, (at least about Antioch) to eat at that time blood and things strangled; not that they were bad of themselves, as the Manicheans pretended. (Witham) — St. Paul here speaks of the Gnostics and other ancient heretics, who absolutely condemned marriage and the use of all kind of meat, because they pretended that all flesh was from an evil principle: whereas the Church of God so far from condemning marriage, holds it to be a holy sacrament, and forbids it to none but such as by vow have chosen the better part: and prohibits not the use of any meats whatsoever, in proper times and seasons, though she does not judge all kinds of diet proper for days of fasting and penance. (Challoner) — We may see in the earliest ages[centuries] of Christianity, that some of the most infamous and impure heretics that ever went out of the Church, condemned all marriage as unlawful, at the same time allowing the most unheard of abominations: men without religion, without faith, without modesty, without honour. See St. Clement of Alexandria, lib. 3. Strom.

Ver. 5. It is sanctified by the word of God, and prayer. That is, praying that they may not, by the abuse we make of them, be an occasion to us of sinning and offending God. (Witham) — The use of all kinds of meat is in itself good; but if it were not, it would become sanctified by the prayer which we usually pronounce over it, and by the word of Christ, who has declared that not that which enters the mouth defiles a man. (Calmet)
haydock1859.tripod.com/id230.html
 
I personally do not like the idea of my meal being treated inhumanely. Strangling an animal puts adrenaline into the meat and corticosteroids…these things make you as big as the heffer when you consume them…kosher is better. Trust me. As far as drinking the blood of animals…pagan yes, but also blood puddings and other luncheon type meats and purees are not kosher because they are largely cosisting of blood. If the animal has an infection or mad cow you consume that when you eat that animal too…This may also be a big reason for abstaining from blood sources of animals and strangulated meat.
 
The commentaries say that the prohibition of consuming blood, which you would think might be grotesque enough to not require comment in the first place, are based on a basic condemnation of “blood cults” which existed in the Near East. So, the prohibition was more than likely related to a “desacralization” of the pagan cults.

To begin with, the animals sacrified to God in the wilderness and in the Jerusalem temple were animals that had godly status in neighboring pagan cults (recall the “golden calf” incident).

Side note: the animal specified was usually but not alway a male of the species, as females were needed for reproduction, and not so many males had to be kept around for that purpose.
 
I personally do not like the idea of my meal being treated inhumanely. Strangling an animal puts adrenaline into the meat and corticosteroids…these things make you as big as the heffer when you consume them…kosher is better.
I personally feel ( dont take this in a nasty way ) that what you said is a load of Rubbish.

I’ll have my meal any which way you give it to me, of course if the person treated the animal in an evil way then of course we pray for that person, but it still doesnt effect how you eat the animal.

all that scientific rubbish is out the window, once you pray and say grace for it, its good to eat.

as for becoming as big as the heffer you consume I have yet to see anything on ripleys beleive it or not to confirm that one 😛

St.Thomas a aquinas was a big lad, didnt stop him from tucking into his big legs of chicken and given a good sermon. MMmmmMMMMmMmMmMmMmmMmm:pizza:
 
Getting fat is not the problem. Simply put, stress on the animal as it’s killed makes it taste nasty. The taste of adrenaline and fear in the meat is nasty. If the animal was stressed enough to release its bowels when killed, it’s nastier still.

This is why hunters and slaughterers have a vested interest in killing meat animals before they know what’s happening. A quick and painless kill is good for cooking. A painful death makes the meat almost worthless, without a great deal of fiddling about with secret recipes and hanging the meat for a long time.
 
Getting fat is not the problem. Simply put, stress on the animal as it’s killed makes it taste nasty. The taste of adrenaline and fear in the meat is nasty. If the animal was stressed enough to release its bowels when killed, it’s nastier still.

This is why hunters and slaughterers have a vested interest in killing meat animals before they know what’s happening. A quick and painless kill is good for cooking. A painful death makes the meat almost worthless, without a great deal of fiddling about with secret recipes and hanging the meat for a long time.
well then…I’ll have it nasty too. since saint Paul tells us not to be concerned too much about food, and since the Christian life is not about comfort but one of seeking discomfort and suffering, I shall have to bite my lip whilst mumbling the words ‘‘to Love is to suffer’’ and shall eat the nasty meat and thank God for it wholeheartedly.
as for its bowels being released, you get all that in a hamburger down at your local burger king, so I dont see the problem.:rolleyes:

I am getting hungry now with all this talk about mad cow.😦

God bless
Stephen.
 
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