Abstenance and Suffering

[TruthSkr]

There comes a time in everyone’s life when prolonged abstenance from sex becomes reality. It might be the result of being unmarried or, if married, be due to separation, illness, or even disability. The reason doesn’t matter. What matters is that it happens. I would like to ask if anyone here does not consider such abstenance a form of suffering, and if so, how do you manage to have this perspective? And if such abstenance is indeed suffering then is our sexuality really a gift? For what kind of gift comes with suffering as an attachment?

 

[Seatuck]

There comes a time in everyone’s life when prolonged abstenance from sex becomes reality. It might be the result of being unmarried or, if married, be due to separation, illness, or even disability. The reason doesn’t matter. What matters is that it happens. I would like to ask if anyone here does not consider such abstenance a form of suffering, and if so, how do you manage to have this perspective? And if such abstenance is indeed suffering then is our sexuality really a gift? For what kind of gift comes with suffering as an attachment?

Maybe you should spend some time looking at and meditating on the crucufix and you will get to your answer.

That is what I do and am trying to do more often. Any human experience we have that helps us to identify with any aspect of Christs life is a true and worthwhile gift. The gift of life comes with both joy and suffering as attachments.

It is our sex crazed culture that seems to make suffering over abstience worse than other sufferings such as starving or enslavement, being ripped apart in a womb etc. We really need to keep things in perspective. Lack of sex is lower on the totem pole than such awful things.

On a personal note yes I do think that it is suffering. Especially if one is married and one spouse is rejecting the other spouse.I think that the reasons do play a role in how well we deal with the suffering.

Suffering itself becomes a gift from God to be used by him to cause us to grow in holiness.

 

[TruthSkr]

Thank you Seatuck for a well thought out reply. I suspected that the answer might be something similar to what you wrote. It just helped a lot to hear from another person about this. It is comforting to know that we are not alone in our suffering and that what we feel is normal. I have done some reading on the subject of suffering and learned that it is much less difficult when there is meaning and purpose. Jesus helps us to find that meaning and purpose in a way that no one else can. And yes, this type of suffering is nowhere near as difficult as those you mentioned. That’s where the perspective part comes in.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

There comes a time in everyone’s life when prolonged abstenance from sex becomes reality. It might be the result of being unmarried or, if married, be due to separation, illness, or even disability. The reason doesn’t matter. What matters is that it happens. I would like to ask if anyone here does not consider such abstenance a form of suffering, and if so, how do you manage to have this perspective? And if such abstenance is indeed suffering then is our sexuality really a gift? For what kind of gift comes with suffering as an attachment?

To some, abstinence *is *a form of suffering. Unfortunately, the Church puts so many restrictions on a natural instinct; It’s an ugly truth, but it’s tolerable if you know how to deal with it.

Personally, I’ve been abstinent all my life. I’m seventeen, so that’s kind of a miracle when I look around at school-- Anyways, the best way to deal with this “suffering” is to understand that sex is a responsibility in this day and age. There’s really no time to worry about a disease or an unwanted pregnancy. For me, it’s not suffering. Curiosity rises, but patience is the key.

As I’ve already referred to, sexuality is a natural instinct. It’s not a gift, nor is it a curse… it’s just there. But, of course, we need to procreate somehow.

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood

 

[Linda_Marie]

From when we were first married 33 years ago, my dh and have have spent most of the time apart. He’s been working at remote mines with a fly-in-fly-out work rotation. This schedule has varied over the years. The job he has now has him home every weekend. The job he had before this one he was 2 weeks on/one week off. Another variant has been 3 weeks on/1 week off.

This necessarily has presented long periods of abstinence. I have never regarded that as suffering. What I suffer is not having my dh with me, rather than not having sex. Also, I regard marriage as a Sacrament and regard having sex as being a part of that Sacrament. Sex is sacred and not to be abused.

Just my :twocents:

 

[Angels_Unaware]

There comes a time in everyone’s life when prolonged abstenance from sex becomes reality. It might be the result of being unmarried or, if married, be due to separation, illness, or even disability. The reason doesn’t matter. What matters is that it happens. I would like to ask if anyone here does not consider such abstenance a form of suffering, and if so, how do you manage to have this perspective? And if such abstenance is indeed suffering then is our sexuality really a gift? For what kind of gift comes with suffering as an attachment?

I do not consider abstinence a form of suffering. I don’t know what to tell you if is not that way for you. Once you have a separation in your marriage, after a short time all marital desires cease for some people. There is no suffering at all.

 

[YipYupYep]

T

What matters is that it happens. I would like to ask if anyone here does not consider such abstenance a form of suffering, and if so, how do you manage to have this perspective?

You already know the answer. Do you feel good or bad when your not getting any. Sure its suffering. You bet. What stronger feeling of physical pleasure is there, and your not getting yours. Thats suffering okay.

And if such abstinence is indeed suffering then is our sexuality really a gift? For what kind of gift comes with suffering as an attachment?

It brings into sharp focus our fallen nature. Torn by and tied to the world of the flesh. Everything works together for happiness when done in accordance with Gods plan. For the celibate, its a heavy cross, probably all the time, stretching and growing the person in there spirit. A hammer and anvil shaping the person. In my own life, as a single man, my sexuality is “the” cross of my life. As for myself, I don’t expect to receive any special blessings for not sinning, but I hope to anyway.

Welcome to the battlefield.

 

[SD_Catholic]

I’m just going to add this although it may not be of any help… but the greatest gift we all have is salvation, and it indeed came through magnificent suffering… so although it may at times feel like suffering that does not exclude it from being a gift.

SD

 

[Angels_Unaware]

I have to say that the idea that people who are living pure lives and committed to celibacy are somehow all “suffering an enormous cross” is disturbing and saddening.

It is categorically untrue. It also diminishes the trust and faith that people have in religious and priests by imagining that they are all secretly wishing they were “getting some”. Not all people are constantly battling lust.

I believe that people who cannot overcome lust when they are single will also fail to do when married, and will quickly become disenchanted with their spouses and turn to other stimulation.

The idea that this is all “great and terrible suffering” is really a convenient excuse for people to forgive themselves for their failure to be pure. I think it is almost laughable. Suffering? Why don’t you try starving or dying from a disease? Why don’t you try abject poverty or persecution? I don’t have a lot of sympathy for people who think “not getting any” is a great suffering.

St. Paul tells us that those who suffer the most will be those who marry, not those who are single. He also tells us not to kid ourselves, and that the fruits of sexual sin are death.

 

[TLM08]

There comes a time in everyone’s life when prolonged abstenance from sex becomes reality. It might be the result of being unmarried or, if married, be due to separation, illness, or even disability. The reason doesn’t matter. What matters is that it happens. I would like to ask if anyone here does not consider such abstenance a form of suffering, and if so, how do you manage to have this perspective? And if such abstenance is indeed suffering then is our sexuality really a gift? For what kind of gift comes with suffering as an attachment?

One of the key teachings of the Catholic Church is that there is redemptive value in suffering. Abstinence from sex for most people would see to me to be more a form of INCREDIBLE sacrifice, (which also has redemptive qualities) than suffering.

 

[Ish_Kabibble]

I have to say that the idea that people who are living pure lives and committed to celibacy are somehow all “suffering an enormous cross” is disturbing and saddening.

Is that supposed to be a joke?

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Is that supposed to be a joke?

I’m sorry, did you ask if it were a joke to suggest that priests and religious and faithful Christians who are unmarried remain celibate without constantly battling lust and without having inner peace?

It most certainly was not a joke to suggest that those who are celibate are not constantly preoccupied by the “enormous cross of suffering”.

Apparently to you the idea of living without sex and not suffering is absurd?

 

[Ish_Kabibble]

Apparently to you the idea of living without sex and not suffering is absurd?

Ah yes. Must have forgotten. The joys of the empty bed. In the wee hours; the comfort received from a virtuous life. How does it so overshadow and make insignificant a thing so mundane as Sex.

The race of human beings just look at the cross and poof ! There hormone over load vanishes. At piece with the world and feel no pain knowing that virtue is its own reward. The years of youth just roll by and one never gives it a thought, so totally enraptured with Holy things and such.

Its a miracle :getholy: Praise The Lord !!!

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Ah yes. Must have forgotten. The joys of the empty bed. In the wee hours; the comfort received from a virtuous life. How does it so overshadow and make insignificant a thing so mundane as Sex.

The race of human beings just look at the cross and poof ! There hormone over load vanishes. At piece with the world and feel no pain knowing that virtue is its own reward. The years of youth just roll by and one never gives it a thought, so totally enraptured with Holy things and such.

Its a miracle :getholy: Praise The Lord !!!

Exactly, with one exception. It has little to do with Christianity. Gloria Steinem has spoken about her time of celibacy and how decreasing sexual behaviors decreases desires until it simply isn’t part of life any more.

And you’re also forgetting the celibate Hindus and Buddhists.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Exactly, with one exception. It has little to do with Christianity. Gloria Steinem has spoken about her time of celibacy and how decreasing sexual behaviors decreases desires until it simply isn’t part of life any more.

And you’re also forgetting the celibate Hindus and Buddhists.

Here’s the interview.abcnews.go.com/2020/Story?id=124030&page=2

B.W. Well, speaking of honeymoons. Gloria, in 1994 you said that you had gone into a period of celibacy and that you didn’t miss sex at all. So, I hate to bring this up, David, but you say, I’m quoting: “since menopause, that part of my brain that has always been a reliable home for sex is gone.” Does David know that?

D.B.: It’s not true.

B.W.: It’s not true?

G.S.: (Laughing) No, well it was true though.

B.W.: But it came back. (laughs)

G.S.: Well, I think that perhaps the truth is this: behavior creates hormones just as hormones create behavior. It’s sort of a cycle.

 

[Ish_Kabibble]

Gloria Steinem has spoken about her time of celibacy and how decreasing sexual behaviors decreases desires until it simply isn’t part of life any more.

Gloria Steinem… Man, this is just too - too much. What next? But… is there more that one. Could there be two? Or do you mean this one?

“In a March 22, 1998 Op/Ed piece in the New York Times, Steinem effectively gave support to the notion that a man may: (1) uninvited, open-mouth kiss a woman; (2) uninvited, fondle a woman’s breast; and (3) uninvited, take a woman’s hand and place it on the man’s genitals; and as long as the man retreats once the woman says “no” that this does not constitute sexual harassment. [22] This has become known in the popular culture as the “One Free Grope” Theory”.

Well now, you just keep up the good work there.

 

[Michael_Prophet]

Yes it is suffering BUT so are a lot of other things. We can not do a lot of things when we want to, isn’t missing an event we really wanted to attend suffering to? Face it marriage is for better or worse and if your spouse is sick or away that is the worse.
It isn’t easy so we just do the best we can.
Michael

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Gloria Steinem… Man, this is just too - too much. What next? But… is there more that one. Could there be two? Or do you mean this one?

“In a March 22, 1998 Op/Ed piece in the New York Times, Steinem effectively gave support to the notion that a man may: (1) uninvited, open-mouth kiss a woman; (2) uninvited, fondle a woman’s breast; and (3) uninvited, take a woman’s hand and place it on the man’s genitals; and as long as the man retreats once the woman says “no” that this does not constitute sexual harassment. [22] This has become known in the popular culture as the “One Free Grope” Theory”.

Well now, you just keep up the good work there.

Sorry, do you have a problem with reasoning? I’m a little confused. Wasn’t the ENTIRE POINT of quoting Gloria S. to refute your ridiculous accusation that celibacy was only something that Christian people pretend to accept as normal?

You are wrong, and you seem quite bitter about it. I wonder why.

 

[Ish_Kabibble]

I’m a little confused.

Yes you are.

Reread your posts here. Who do you think you are?

One may be well advised to not pontificate what you have written. Speak to you yourself; no problem there. However, to put the rest of the normal flesh and blood people in your transcendental situation in unfair to us humans. You need only to look at this site to see the sexual drama that rolls across the pages of this site to see that, unlike your self, you are the only to have reached sainthood. We are still slugging it out down here on Earth.

In doing so, you negate the pain and suffering of us mortals with flippant and untrue statements. More so, you have more than made light the courage and as some poor mortal slob put it, “incredible sacrifice” of engagement in the fierce battle. You deny it even exists.

If God has seen fit to lift this burden from your shoulders, all the day long, thank Him; praise Him.

Wasn’t the ENTIRE POINT of quoting Gloria S. to refute your ridiculous accusation that celibacy was only something that Christian people pretend to accept as normal?

You quoted her, not me. I don’t know why. Cant imagine. She is a notorious flake. Scandalous, and a promoter of the mass murder of The Holy Innocents.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Yes you are.

Reread your posts here. Who do you think you are?

One may be well advised to not pontificate what you have written. Speak to you yourself; no problem there. However, to put the rest of the normal flesh and blood people in your transcendental situation in unfair to us humans. You need only to look at this site to see the sexual drama that rolls across the pages of this site to see that, unlike your self, you are the only to have reached sainthood. We are still slugging it out down here on Earth.

In doing so, you negate the pain and suffering of us mortals with flippant and untrue statements. More so, you have more than made light the courage and as some poor mortal slob put it, “incredible sacrifice” of engagement in the fierce battle. You deny it even exists.

If God has seen fit to lift this burden from your shoulders, all the day long, thank Him; praise Him.

You quoted her, not me. I don’t know why. Cant imagine. She is a notorious flake. Scandalous, and a promoter of the mass murder of The Holy Innocents.

The only conclusion I can draw from this rambling post is that you have failed to follow the argument I made. I surmise from that conclusion that your lack of coherence is purposefully self-inflicted to avoid the conclusion that everyone is responsible for their own sexuality.

So let me repeat the argument that I made in a succinct format since you cannot follow it.

1. Chastity is not abnormal.
   1a. Because chastity is not abnormal, it does not necessarily involve continuous suffering.
2. To propose that chastity is abnormal is offensive to the Catholic faith, because that proposition undermines the value placed NOT ONLY on celibate lifestyles BUT ALSO on the limitations placed on sexuality within marriage.

You then openly ridiculed] the above propositions, and the Catholic faith. See below.

Its a miracle Praise The Lord !!!

I then pointed out to you that:

1. Chastity without suffering occurs EVEN among non-Christians, which even further weakens your sarcasm, hatred, and bitterness toward people who are not slaves to their sex drives.

For example:

3a. Gloria Steinem, a prominent liberal Feminist who does not adhere to the moral tenets of the Church herself did not suffer during a period of abstinence.

3b. Buddhists and Hindus have a tradition of celibacy.

THEREFORE, if anyone continues to suffer by following the moral teaching of the Church that demands we not be a slave to the flesh, then there is no excuse, since even those who are not Christians can regularly do this.