Abstinence Before Marriage

[Princess18]

I was actually replying to newbtx–as he was talking about being a work in progress–and we all are a work in progress–that no one just follows the rules over night…that’s what I was replying to.

Oh ok. I hoped I didn’t sound so preachy!

 

[newbetx]

I apparently did not come across as I meant to. I’m a little surprised that my “follow the rules” bit was taken this far out of context, so I’ll rephrase.

REPLACE:

WITH:

life_lover, you’re deciding if you want to agree with the guidelines of the Church as to what is sinful and non-sinful behavior. If you agree, you’ll have to change your behavior and you’re deciding if you want to do that.

Better?

I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to derail… What I was attempting to say is that the Catholic Faith is very rich. Accepting EVERYTHING all at once (even though we should) is difficult. Personally, I have to see and understand before accepting ANYTHING… and I’m not there yet to accept EVERYTHING without justification. But through the Grace of God, I’m on the move to get there.

And once you get an understanding, the value of the rule means so much more… I think, better than just blind acceptance. KWIM?

I was trying to show hope, as well. Conversion of the heart or mind takes time. I’m SO slow at it sometimes. Sorry if I confused anyone.

 

[Princess18]

Personally, I have to see and understand before accepting ANYTHING… and I’m not there yet to accept EVERYTHING without justification. But through the Grace of God, I’m on the move to get there.

I had a long chat with the priest about this in our Pre Cana counseling. He said “God saved our from our sins, not our brains”. I told him one of my issues coming back to the Church was the blind faith I am always told I need to have. Like you, newbetx, I have to reason it through and decide for myself. My teachers made me feel that questioning was wrong and if I did that I was extra sinful.

I could have kissed him for saying this to me, but it may have yielded a somewhat awkward situation.

 

[whatevergirl]

Oh ok. I hoped I didn’t sound so preachy!

Oh no–not at all…I think you made perfect sense.

 

[newbetx]

I had a long chat with the priest about this in our Pre Cana counseling. He said “God saved our from our sins, not our brains”. I told him one of my issues coming back to the Church was the blind faith I am always told I need to have. Like you, newbetx, I have to reason it through and decide for myself. My teachers made me feel that questioning was wrong and if I did that I was extra sinful.

I could have kissed him for saying this to me, but it may have yielded a somewhat awkward situation.

You may have made his week! Sounds like a nice man and good spritual leader.

Thomas doubted. God loved him just as much as the others. I get bent out of shape about the condemation of Cafeteria Catholics… but I read and read. Listen and think. And as the pieces fall into place, I feel better and better. And if you are to defend your faith, you better know where the concepts came from! That is really our chalenge, I believe. And a lot of work!

 

[3GirlsRUs]

My fiance and I live together and are getting married in 6 months. I was a virgin when we met and while we did end up having sex before we married, we waited for 2 years.
We have been sexually active together over the past year and just attended our marriage prep. weekend where they suggested to abstain until your wedding night.
I personally would like to follow the church on this idea while my fiance is a little more hesitant. I understand that being a man, it may prove a little more trying for him (nothing against men and their sexuality) but I really do think it could bring us closer and make our wedding night a special and beautiful thing.
I do worry however that this may cause some issues as well. He has made is very clear that he does not like the idea and it is entirely up to me.
How do I make this decision on my own and what can I do to reduce the friction?

I don’t know what you can do in your situation, but I wanted to post to support the idea that you abstain until your wedding night. My DH and I succombed to sin before we were married. When we got engaged, I told him that I didn’t feel right and I thought that we should wait until we married to continue. He was supportive of this…so I understand my situation was different from yours.

I am so glad we did. We had 9 months where we focused on our relationship, talked about things without the blur of emotions related to sexual activity and I believe prepared ourselves for marriage. We weren’t living together though. Is there a place (like parents?) you could live until the wedding night? That might make it easier.

I don’t want to sound bad or anything, but his hesitance might be a “red flag” for your marriage. If you follow church teaching on marital love, you shouldn’t use contraception and should be open to children. This is something you both should delve into before the wedding night to be sure you’re on the same page about things.

 

[newbetx]

I don’t want to sound bad or anything, but his hesitance might be a “red flag” for your marriage.

No. I dissagree. Well, from what I remember, the guys perspective can look like this:

“What? No Sex? Wait a minute… you mean you don’t want sex anymore? If you say “no” now, does that mean after we’re married you’ll say “no” all the time? What’s this? Now what have I gotten myself into? I thought you thought sex was a way of showing love, too. What happened? Church rules? Why are you wanting to follow them now? I love you but I really don’t understand this.”

Ask your hubbies or Hubbies to be… does this sound about right?

If they aren’t confused or concerned at first… they aren’t human.
It might be true that you two aren’t sharing the same beliefs right now… Those DO need attention.

 

[life_lover]

Thanks you Newbetix and Princess. I can honestly say that you have been the most helpful through all of this and some of the few posts that actually have helped came from both of you.
I won’t respond with anger towards those who say "the church says it’s wrong so it’s wrong and you will go to hell and it’s a mortal sin…"etc. All I have to say is, that is not helpful. People come here for ADVICE. they already know the preaching.
Anyway, I plan on getting the Christopher West book, and so far I am still holding strong despite the confused anger from my fiance (which is EXACTLY what was posted by Newbetix, at least I believe it was you).
My fiance is an incredible man who came back to the church and to God after we met and is still working his way into the tougher teachings of the church. And while he may be giving me a hard time I do not doubt him because of this ‘red flag’. He is a man who has been enjoying sex and now cannot. I understand it’s a tough transition.
Thanks to all who have responded and Princess, I am praying for you too.

 

[newbetx]

Life Lover,
Just know that the best thing you can do for your future marraige now is discover whether or not your H2B respects you by his actions not just words. I am speaking from experience here. If he and you can willingly abstain until your married you are giving each other the gift of respect that no one else can match.
I have made alot of mistkes when it has come to my own belief systems and am paying he price. I too did not wait until was married and I too married a non-Catholic. After our EE weekend I wanted to wait also but allowed myself to give in to temptation and did not demand that my husband show me respect with his actions instead of just pretty words. Now 14 years and 4 children later, I have daily struggles in my marriage. I believe in the sacrament of marriage and I have to pray all the time about the man that I married. I love my husband dearly but their are days that I feel our mutual disrespect for one another that we proved before our marriage is an ugly cloud over our marriage. My husband says he respects me and I say the same to him but we do not have a mature, peacefilled marriage that I think we should have. The premarital sex relationships clouded my judgement and my abiliity to see just what I was getting into-maybe if I wasn’t dtermined to be so in love because of My sexual relationship with my husband I would have been able to see the faults that make our marriage so challenging(He too may have seen that I really needed a grownup and realized he was not ready to make the changes necessary)
Sorry this post is so long but I hope for your sake you can heed my advice- I promise you that when you have children you will realize just how important your morals standards will be to you. I ask God every night to forgive me for the things that I have done that I never wish for my children to know about. Please consider prayerfully what you should do next- by consulting God about what seem like difficult decisions now you won’t have to be begging Him so much for help on for very difficult situations later.

In Christ,
Deborah

I know what you mean Redhead(name removed by moderator)my. I, too, struggled with “what happened” and “why did I do this?” We fought about anything. I couldn’t even breathe right… KWIM? I loved my wife and family too much to leave, but it was downright not a very happy house. So I did two things. Three really. First was read TOB… that got my head on straight. Then we signed up for 10 Great Dates at church… that was a slow enough pace that DW and I would at least touch on the “pink elephants” in the room. It took over a year, but we’re getting along so much better and without the guilt that was eating at us. The thrid thing was something I didn’t do much of… I prayed. Not so much for my wife to do or be something different for me, but for her and I to be good models for our kids.

 

[newbetx]

Thanks you Newbetix and Princess. I can honestly say that you have been the most helpful through all of this and some of the few posts that actually have helped came from both of you.
I won’t respond with anger towards those who say "the church says it’s wrong so it’s wrong and you will go to hell and it’s a mortal sin…"etc. All I have to say is, that is not helpful. People come here for ADVICE. they already know the preaching.
Anyway, I plan on getting the Christopher West book, and so far I am still holding strong despite the confused anger from my fiance (which is EXACTLY what was posted by Newbetix, at least I believe it was you).
My fiance is an incredible man who came back to the church and to God after we met and is still working his way into the tougher teachings of the church. And while he may be giving me a hard time I do not doubt him because of this ‘red flag’. He is a man who has been enjoying sex and now cannot. I understand it’s a tough transition.
Thanks to all who have responded and Princess, I am praying for you too.

Life_Lover,
Thank you for understanding and hanging in here. We hope you come back for more (of the good stuff). There are very many good folks here at CAF… and even if some may be harsh, they generally have useful information even though they lack a “good bedside manner.”

I hope your H2B reads CW, too. If he doesn’t agree, at least he knows the rules, too. And not something somebody said…KWIM?

 

[LeahInancsi]

Life_Lover,
Thank you for understanding and hanging in here. We hope you come back for more (of the good stuff). There are very many good folks here at CAF… and even if some may be harsh, they generally have useful information even though they lack a “good bedside manner.”

I plead guilty to being harsh and I apologized for it before I addressed this issue. It’s not so much the couples who are not aware of the Church’s teachings, but the Church itself. I only converted two years ago (at age 50), but for the past 35-40 years and very little contact with practicing Catholics, I have known that the Catholic church forbade artificial birth control and that sex before marriage was a sin (in any Christian religion). I was also harsh to another couple who said that after three children and many years of marriage in the Catholic church, they were not aware the artificial birth control was forbidden. I simply don’t understand.

Where has this train jumped the track???

 

[newbetx]

I plead guilty to being harsh and I apologized for it before I addressed this issue. It’s not so much the couples who are not aware of the Church’s teachings, but the Church itself. I only converted two years ago (at age 50), but for the past 35-40 years and very little contact with practicing Catholics, I have known that the Catholic church forbade artificial birth control and that sex before marriage was a sin (in any Christian religion). I was also harsh to another couple who said that after three children and many years of marriage in the Catholic church, they were not aware the artificial birth control was forbidden. I simply don’t understand.

Where has this train jumped the track???

Basically, sex is not talked about… Abortion? Almost every Mass, it seams…

We had a young priest. He brought up a very tough subject and covered it well. That of ABC… I told him later that he should do that more often… but the truth is… no one likes to hear the Truth. So many Catholics are practicing ABC today, that I’m sure there is fear of running them off. But it need not be…

But how do you take TOB to the masses (another pun intended)? It’s not something you can condense into 10 min and provide to all people in the proper sequence… It’s a difficult subject to cover for those that don’t seek it out.

Sorry, LL for hijacking your thread!

So many know (or have heard) the DON’Ts… there are so many DO’s in the TOB that are worth knowing, too. So it may seem like the rules are basically there to limit us. So who wants to learn more about that?

 

[Norseman82]

I’m going to repeat those two words that lizanne posted earlier:

mortal sin

Enough said.

Well, actually, not enough. If you are serious about abstaining, then you are also going to have to stop cohabitating, since that is also an occasion of sin that will be a constant source of temptation for both of you. In fact, I know of parishes and pastors that tell couples in marriage prep to stop cohabitating if they want to get married in that parish.

 

[newbetx]

I won’t respond with anger towards those who say "the church says it’s wrong so it’s wrong and you will go to hell and it’s a mortal sin…"etc. All I have to say is, that is not helpful. People come here for ADVICE. they already know the preaching.

LL. You are very kind. Like so many before you, I would have just blew off those who condemed you and walked away thinking that the Catholics are just a bunch Self Righteous Hypocrites. Somehow I think you are are more in tune with the Lord than some that post here. I’m sorry that so many here at CAF appear to be “preachers” and not evangalists. Apologetics are nice, too. We need more of these and less of the former. But it takes a great deal of effort to change one’s disposition. I hope you’ll come back some day and join me to pray for those that have forgotten our Lord’s example. He did not condem, but opened their eyes. May we all follow Him and lead others to follow as well.

Also, I hope that you come back to help other’s to open their eyes in the future. We are all sinners. And we need all the help we can get.

Keep us posted!

 

[homewardbound]

I also live with my boyfriend and have found it is helpful to pray together. If we sit down at least every other day and pray the rosary together, we are a lot less likely to have sex. Also, I used to have a poster of Our Lady on the wall and that helped too.

We have been slipping up recently, ruining 8 months of chastity, it is hard, and if I didn’t have to live with him due to being disabled and unable to move to my parents because they can’t afford me, I wouldn’t be here. Anyway, I think I definitely want to pray more together again and get another poster.

It can be done, but only if both people are open to it. Pray together, and pray for God to work at his heart. God should be number one and all we can do is the best we can to put him first. Everyone sins and slips up, those who judge others so harshly are definitely not being honest with their own sins. Chastity really does make the relationship stronger and I feel closer to my boyfriend when we are NOT intimate. Good luck and God Bless!

 

[newbetx]

I also live with my boyfriend and have found it is helpful to pray together. If we sit down at least every other day and pray the rosary together, we are a lot less likely to have sex. Also, I used to have a poster of Our Lady on the wall and that helped too.

We have been slipping up recently, ruining 8 months of chastity, it is hard, and if I didn’t have to live with him due to being disabled and unable to move to my parents because they can’t afford me, I wouldn’t be here. Anyway, I think I definitely want to pray more together again and get another poster.

It can be done, but only if both people are open to it. Pray together, and pray for God to work at his heart. God should be number one and all we can do is the best we can to put him first. Everyone sins and slips up, those who judge others so harshly are definitely not being honest with their own sins. Chastity really does make the relationship stronger and I feel closer to my boyfriend when we are NOT intimate. Good luck and God Bless!

You sound like you have a lot going well in your relationship already… Do you have a planned wedding date? (A light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak) And HomewardBound… does that mean you are coming back to the Church?

Here’s my usuall plug… Christopher West’s The Good News About Sex and Marriage. It discusses the frame of reference about sacrafice, well. Once I understood and accepted, it made loving my wife without sex almost as wonderful as with it. The only difference for you would be that you’d have to do that with your clothes on. (disclaimer: Your experience may vary and your spouse’s may vary from that.)

 

[homewardbound]

You sound like you have a lot going well in your relationship already… Do you have a planned wedding date? (A light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak) And HomewardBound… does that mean you are coming back to the Church?

Here’s my usuall plug… Christopher West’s The Good News About Sex and Marriage. It discusses the frame of reference about sacrafice, well. Once I understood and accepted, it made loving my wife without sex almost as wonderful as with it. The only difference for you would be that you’d have to do that with your clothes on. (disclaimer: Your experience may vary and your spouse’s may vary from that.)

We are planning on marriage prep this year and marriage in 2009. I am in RCIA now and will be confirmed easter 2009. My boyfriend is a cradle Catholic.

I definitely want to get a copy of the Good News About Sex and Marriage. I’ve heard so much about it.

 

[praisethelord12]

Give a child everything he or she demands and they end up a spoiled brat. That’s true the world over. The more you give in, the less they respect you.
Would he not prefer sex on a monday morning rather that waking up to go to work. What did he do while in the army??? He would not try that with his boss or he’d get the boot. So why God and you???
In India, there are scores of men who work in the persian gulf for 2 years at a stretch and are home for 2 months after that. All because they can put their children through school and a little food on the table. That’s sacrifice.
Is he not then turning into a brat??? What will he be after marriage?

God bless you both.