Abstinence Only Programs?

[TimothyH]

The whole premise of safe sex is a joke. There is no such thing as safe sex outside of marriage.

If you have sex outside of marriage and know better then you are committing a mortal sin and placing your eternal salvation in jeapordy. To hell with the issue of teen pregnancy. Teaching sex outside of marriage is teaching people to sin.

"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Woe to the world because of things that cause sin! Such things must come, but woe to the one through whom they come! (Matthew 18:6-7)

Anyone in favor of teaching safe sex can go ahead and teach it. Hang a millstone around your neck and throw yourself into what ever lake or ocean you care to, the bigger and deeper the better as far as I’m concerned. That is exactly what you are doing to yourself.

My daughter was taught chastity classes by Dominican Sisters - pure women who practice the only safe sex outside of marriage there is - complete chastity. Holy women who wear full habits and fifteen decade rosaries on their belts, and not for show either. And you know what smy daughter said to the doctor who tried to give her the HPV vaccine? “Oh no, I know exactly what that is for. I’m not like those girls who do all that crud!” That’s what she said. Then she looked at me and said, “I have big plans for my life. I don’t have time for sex with boys right now.” $68,000 for a nine years of Catholic education and that moment made it worth every penny.

Go ahead, teach safe sex if you want. See where it gets you. Go ahead.

-Tim-

 

[Debora123]

The whole premise of safe sex is a joke. There is no such thing as safe sex outside of marriage.

If you have sex outside of marriage and know better then you are committing a mortal sin and placing your eternal salvation in jeapordy. To hell with the issue of teen pregnancy. Teaching sex outside of marriage is teaching people to sin.

"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Woe to the world because of things that cause sin! Such things must come, but woe to the one through whom they come! (Matthew 18:6-7)

Go ahead and teach safe sex. Hang a millstone around your neck and throw yourself into what ever lake or ocean you care to, the bigger and deeper the better as far as I’m concerned.

Whoa definitely a lot of hostility here, but thanks for answering, nonetheless.

So I supposed I am to take this to mean that you think abstinence only programs are the way to go then? How do you feel about the fact that they’ve only made the problem worse? I’m just trying to figure out how to come to terms with this.

My daughter was taught chastity by Dominican Sisters who wear full habits and fifteen decade rosaries on their belts. And you know what she said to the doctor who tried to give her the HPV vaccine? “Oh no, I know exactly what that is for. I’m not like those girls who do all that ****!” That’s what she said. Then she looked at me and said, “I have big plans for my life. I don’t have time for sex with boys right now.” $68,000 for a nine years of Catholic education and that moment made it worth every penny.

I didn’t go to a Catholic high school (I went public), but when my doctor asked me about getting that vaccine, I didn’t feel the need to say “no” by degrading other girls who are less blessed than I am. I simply said “no thank you, I won’t be needing that.” It would have been nice if those nuns had taught your daughter some humility as well. Just my opinion.

Go ahead, teach safe sex if you want. And burn in hell for it. Go ahead.

-Tim-

Who are you referring to here? I don’t think any of us are teaching safe sex to high school kids.

 

[JoArtist]

The whole premise of safe sex is a joke. There is no such thing as safe sex outside of marriage.

If you have sex outside of marriage and know better then you are committing a mortal sin and placing your eternal salvation in jeapordy. To hell with the issue of teen pregnancy. Teaching sex outside of marriage is teaching people to sin.

"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Woe to the world because of things that cause sin! Such things must come, but woe to the one through whom they come! (Matthew 18:6-7)

Anyone in favor of teaching safe sex can go ahead and teach it. Hang a millstone around your neck and throw yourself into what ever lake or ocean you care to, the bigger and deeper the better as far as I’m concerned. That is exactly what you are doing to yourself.

My daughter was taught chastity classes by Dominican Sisters - pure women who practice the only safe sex outside of marriage there is - complete chastity. Holy women who wear full habits and fifteen decade rosaries on their belts, and not for show either. And you know what smy daughter said to the doctor who tried to give her the HPV vaccine? “Oh no, I know exactly what that is for. I’m not like those girls who do all that crud!” That’s what she said. Then she looked at me and said, “I have big plans for my life. I don’t have time for sex with boys right now.” $68,000 for a nine years of Catholic education and that moment made it worth every penny.

Go ahead, teach safe sex if you want. See where it gets you. Go ahead.

-Tim-

You are blowing this way out of proportion and not to mention making people say things that they are not. First of all, I think the people are not promoting sex by any means. Henceforth why I chose to push abstinence, but have safe sex training as well. They just realize that these kids have sex no matter what you teach and would rather prevent disease and pregnancy. I cannot tell you how many girls I went to high school or even Jr. High School with got pregnant. Also I knew some kids in High School who contracted HIV at early of ages as 14.

As far as the HPV vaccine, I fully planned on staying a virgin until marriage until I was raped by a boyfriend in college. I got HPV. If I would have gotten the vaccine, I wouldn’t have had the extra consequence that came with being raped. Not only did I not get to give my virginity to my husband, have severe emotional hardships, but I had this disease too that could cause me to get cervical cancer. There are 100,000 reported rapes of women a year in the U.S. and many more not reported. We need to protect ourselves by any means necessary.

 

[Debora123]

As far as the HPV vaccine, I fully planned on staying a virgin until marriage until I was raped by a boyfriend in college. I got HPV. If I would have gotten the vaccine, I wouldn’t have had the extra consequence that came with being raped. Not only did I not get to give my virginity to my husband, have severe emotional hardships, but I had this disease too that could cause me to get cervical cancer. There are 100,000 reported rapes of women a year in the U.S. and many more not reported. We need to protect ourselves by any means necessary.

Oh my.

I had no idea you went through this. I am so sorry.

In the eyes of God though, you still were a virgin even after being raped. Virginity is something that is given away. It cannot be taken away.

My prayers are with you. God bless.

 

[JoArtist]

Oh my.

I had no idea you went through this. I am so sorry.

In the eyes of God though, you still were a virgin even after being raped. Virginity is something that is given away. It cannot be taken away.

My prayers are with you. God bless.

It is okay, things worked out in the end. My body ended up eradicating the disease over a few years and then I met my wonderful husband. My situation is not all that uncommon though… there is no harm in preparing for the worst and hoping for the best.

 

[EasterJoy]

I think that it is a mistake to think that teenagers can be left alone unchaperoned. There are teens who will avoid the near occasion of sin, who will not only avoid pregnancy but who will remain chaste, if trusted entirely to their own devices. That isn’t enough, and you can’t tell who it is going to be until they’re put to the test.

What is the difference between teen with moral formation and education and one without, when left alone with the object of their romantic obsession? About the difference in survival time between someone who can and cannot swim if dropped in the North Atlantic. It is a real difference, it is a huge difference, but there are conditions where simply knowing how to swim will not keep you from drowning. It only buys you a certain amount of time. If it is just you standing between you and failure…you’re sunk.

 

[TimothyH]

You are blowing this way out of proportion and not to mention making people say things that they are not. First of all, I think the people are not promoting sex by any means. Henceforth why I chose to push abstinence, but have safe sex training as well. They just realize that these kids have sex no matter what you teach and would rather prevent disease and pregnancy. I cannot tell you how many girls I went to high school or even Jr. High School with got pregnant. Also I knew some kids in High School who contracted HIV at early of ages as 14.

As far as the HPV vaccine, I fully planned on staying a virgin until marriage until I was raped by a boyfriend in college. I got HPV. If I would have gotten the vaccine, I wouldn’t have had the extra consequence that came with being raped. Not only did I not get to give my virginity to my husband, have severe emotional hardships, but I had this disease too that could cause me to get cervical cancer. There are 100,000 reported rapes of women a year in the U.S. and many more not reported. We need to protect ourselves by any means necessary.

I’m sorry that you were raped.

But doesn’t sin matter to you?

-Tim-

 

[1ke]

Yes I have. Two evils - teen pregnancy/abortion, teen safe sex education. That’s two moral evils.

You are confusing the choice with the result.

The two *choices *are abstaining or having contracepted sex. One is moral the other is intrinsically evil and can never be supported or promoted in any circumstance.

The result of having sex is pregnancy. Whether one tries to “prevent” it or not, it is the outcome of sex. Pregnancy is not an intrinsic evil. Abortion is always an evil.

Regardless, we can never do evil even if the intent is that a perceived good come from it. Teaching contraception is an evil. Period.

 

[JoArtist]

I’m sorry that you were raped.

But doesn’t sin matter to you?

-Tim-

Sin does matter to me, but teaching abstinence only doesn’t stop it. If these kids are going to make the mistake of having pre-marital sex, I would rather them not get STI’s such as HIV, herpes, HPV, ect. or get pregnant (which could have been prevented even though they decided to make the mistake of pre-marital sex). We should push abstinence and link sex with marriage, but we need to have safe sex training to help protect those who disregard what we have to say about pre-marital sex. Hormones end up outweighing morals for most teens.
P.S. Do you see now why we still need to vaccinate? It is not pushing sex, it is pushing safety. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

 

[Corki]

Sin does matter to me, but teaching abstinence only doesn’t stop it. If these kids are going to make the mistake of having pre-marital sex, I would rather them not get STI’s such as HIV, herpes, HPV, ect. or get pregnant (which could have been prevented even though they decided to make the mistake of pre-marital sex). We should push abstinence and link sex with marriage, but we need to have safe sex training to help protect those who disregard what we have to say about pre-marital sex. Hormones end up outweighing morals for most teens.
P.S. Do you see now why we still need to vaccinate? It is not pushing sex, it is pushing safety. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

I am sorry for what happened to you but no ammount of safe sex teaching in high school would have protected you.

As for the vaccine, if it was one of the panel of vaccines required for kids to enter the school system, along with measels, whooping cough and tetnus, I wouldn’t have a problem with it. But it is “marketed” to pre-teen girls as a sex vaccine and that’s wrong. I am not against the vaccine, but against it’s implementation.

 

[Debora123]

You are confusing the choice with the result.

The two *choices *are abstaining or having contracepted sex. One is moral the other is intrinsically evil and can never be supported or promoted in any circumstance.

The result of having sex is pregnancy. Whether one tries to “prevent” it or not, it is the outcome of sex. Pregnancy is not an intrinsic evil. Abortion is always an evil.

Regardless, we can never do evil even if the intent is that a perceived good come from it. Teaching contraception is an evil. Period.

Ah, I see what you’re saying.

So do you advocate abstinence only, even though they lead to more abortions and single teen moms?

 

[Debora123]

I am sorry for what happened to you but no ammount of safe sex teaching in high school would have protected you.

She was saying the HPV shot would have protected her. She didn’t say anything about safe sex ed protecting her.

 

[JoArtist]

I am sorry for what happened to you but no ammount of safe sex teaching in high school would have protected you.

As for the vaccine, if it was one of the panel of vaccines required for kids to enter the school system, along with measels, whooping cough and tetnus, I wouldn’t have a problem with it. But it is “marketed” to pre-teen girls as a sex vaccine and that’s wrong. I am not against the vaccine, but against it’s implementation.

I never said that the safe sex education would have protected me, but it can protect others. I was using what happened to me to promote the use of the HPV vaccine… it was not part of my argument for safe sex education.

 

[Corki]

Ah, I see what you’re saying.

So do you advocate abstinence only, even though they lead to more abortions and single teen moms?

Abstinence only education programs **do not **lead to more abortions or to more teen moms. At best, there is a correlation but not a causal link. Even that is a debated statistic. No one who is successfully taught to abstain from sex is getting an abortion or getting pregnant while still in her teens.

The question should not be is it better to teach kids to abstain or better to teach them to contracept. That one should be a no-brainer - abstain! The real question is how can we do a better job at teaching abstinence.

 

[Corki]

I never said that the safe sex education would have protected me, but it can protect others. I was using what happened to me to promote the use of the HPV vaccine… it was not part of my argument for safe sex education.

Sorry, I thought we had been warned to stay on topic and I was trying to do so. Carry-on.

 

[Corki]

She was saying the HPV shot would have protected her. She didn’t say anything about safe sex ed protecting her.

I thought this thread was about sex-ed and responded accordingly. My mistake.

 

[JoArtist]

Sorry, I thought we had been warned to stay on topic and I was trying to do so. Carry-on.

I was responding to another person’s post when I was speaking about the HPV vaccine.

 

[Debora123]

Abstinence only education programs **do not **lead to more abortions or to more teen moms. At best, there is a correlation but not a causal link. Even that is a debated statistic. No one who is successfully taught to abstain from sex is getting an abortion or getting pregnant while still in her teens.

The question should not be is it better to teach kids to abstain or better to teach them to contracept. That one should be a no-brainer - abstain! The real question is how can we do a better job at teaching abstinence.

There is a lot of evidence out there that points to abstinence programs being less effective in preventing teen pregnancies/abortions than programs that teach both.

I guess if you don’t believe those statistics, this whole thread doesn’t apply and of course, the best and only answer would be abstinence only programs.

 

[Corki]

There is a lot of evidence out there that points to abstinence programs being less effective in preventing teen pregnancies/abortions than programs that teach both.

I guess if you don’t believe those statistics, this whole thread doesn’t apply and of course, the best and only answer would be abstinence only programs.

No abstinence program or contraceptive program can prevent an abortion. May I suggest a basic statistics course?

You can say that abstinence programs are not effective at preventing teen sex and that that ineffectiveness correlates with more teen pregnancies and that more teen pregnancies correlates with more teen abortions. But to have causality, which is what you claim, you would have to show that more teens who learned abstinence were having sex than were teens who were taught contraception and that more teens who were abstinent were having abortions. That’s causality. Without causality, you can’t claim that the abstinence programs “lead to” pregnancy let alone abortion. The statistics just aren’t there to show causality.

 

[Debora123]

No abstinence program or contraceptive program can prevent an abortion. May I suggest a basic statistics course?

You can say that abstinence programs are not effective at preventing teen sex and that that ineffectiveness correlates with more teen pregnancies and that more teen pregnancies correlates with more teen abortions. But to have causality, which is what you claim, you would have to show that more teens who learned abstinence were having sex than were teens who were taught contraception and that more teens who were abstinent were having abortions. That’s causality. Without causality, you can’t claim that the abstinence programs “lead to” pregnancy let alone abortion. The statistics just aren’t there to show causality.

What I meant by that is, more unplanned teenage pregnancies happen while using abstinence only programs. Thus leading to more abortions. The way it was worded doesn’t really matter, as I’m sure everyone here knew what I meant.

Anyway, how to you feel about using these programs if they have been proven ineffective?