Abuse & Co-operation with Civil Authorities

[NPC]

I’m just wondering if there are any particular situations around the world - please give examples if you can - where it would not be wise for bishops to involve the civil authorities in allegations of abuse against their priests.

I ask this in light of the recent circular letter from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, dated May 3. While it is clear that it exhorts bishops to allow for the requirements of civil law, and it notes rightly that abuse is a crime in civil law as well as canon law, it notes:

Although relations with civil authority will differ in various countries, nevertheless it is important to cooperate with such authority within their responsibilities.[italics mine]

Does this indicate that there are genuine reasons for not having a universal clear-cut policy of reporting all allegations to the civil authorities? If so, what might these reasons be?

 

[Santi2]

I’m just wondering if there are any particular situations around the world - please give examples if you can - where it would not be wise for bishops to involve the civil authorities in allegations of abuse against their priests.

I ask this in light of the recent circular letter from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, dated May 3. While it is clear that it exhorts bishops to allow for the requirements of civil law, and it notes rightly that abuse is a crime in civil law as well as canon law, it notes:

Does this indicate that there are genuine reasons for not having a universal clear-cut policy of reporting all allegations to the civil authorities? If so, what might these reasons be?

Consideration of laws which refers to age of consent would be one of those.

 

[Scoobyshme]

I would think that if there are any countries where the penalty for child abuse is execution, then I would say don’t tell the authorities. (Not sure if there are any, but there could be. Especially in Communist or 3rd world countries.)

 

[purplesunshine]

I would think that if there are any countries where the penalty for child abuse is execution, then I would say don’t tell the authorities. (Not sure if there are any, but there could be. Especially in Communist or 3rd world countries.)

And the children suffer? I’m sorry, but I think if there was more fear that they would be prosecuted abuse would not umbrella the way it does. Not all abuse re-offend, but all of those who offend (with a tiny minortity for psycopaths) have been abused. If abuse, expecally sexual abuse, was swiftly punished it would prevent the mental disease from spreading. Today, there are children who abuse children. In one case a 3yo was being abused by a 6yo, who was being abused by an 8 &10yo the 10yo was beign abused by a 13yo who had been abused by a “boyfriend” who had also abused 12 other kids within a year’s time. The man was a know abuser, but the mothers thought “it wouldn’t happen to my kids” and the mother of the 8yo who was letting her kid play with an 10yo never saw it comming. Kids turn into abusers before the age of reason!

If on first report and conviction this guy had been hanged by his toes four children would not of been made into abusers.

 

[ProPatria]

I would think that if there are any countries where the penalty for child abuse is execution, then I would say don’t tell the authorities. (Not sure if there are any, but there could be. Especially in Communist or 3rd world countries.)

This may sound harsh, but personally I think that it’s better to execute a child molester than to let him look for more victims as a free man. At least here in Finland the legal penalties for child abuse are terribly mild. They usually spend a little time (if any) in prison and then they are free again. This is a horrible cycle, and if executing the offenders is the only way to protect innocent children, I believe it’s justified.

 

[Scoobyshme]

And the children suffer? I’m sorry, but I think if there was more fear that they would be prosecuted abuse would not umbrella the way it does. Not all abuse re-offend, but all of those who offend (with a tiny minortity for psycopaths) have been abused. If abuse, expecally sexual abuse, was swiftly punished it would prevent the mental disease from spreading. Today, there are children who abuse children. In one case a 3yo was being abused by a 6yo, who was being abused by an 8 &10yo the 10yo was beign abused by a 13yo who had been abused by a “boyfriend” who had also abused 12 other kids within a year’s time. The man was a know abuser, but the mothers thought “it wouldn’t happen to my kids” and the mother of the 8yo who was letting her kid play with an 10yo never saw it comming. Kids turn into abusers before the age of reason!

If on first report and conviction this guy had been hanged by his toes four children would not of been made into abusers.

Not turning him into the local authorities does not preclude him being dealt with so that he stops the abuse.

 

[Scoobyshme]

This may sound harsh, but personally I think that it’s better to execute a child molester than to let him look for more victims as a free man. At least here in Finland the legal penalties for child abuse are terribly mild. They usually spend a little time (if any) in prison and then they are free again. This is a horrible cycle, and if executing the offenders is the only way to protect innocent children, I believe it’s justified.

We believe that the right to life is an ultima facae right, and trumps the prima facae right not to be abused. That being said, not turning him into the local authorities does not preclude him being dealt with so that he stops the abuse.

 

[manualman]

Don’t forget that “catholic” means universal. Canon law must consider both civilized countries and totalitarian ones.

It is not reasonable in countries where the criminal justice system is a mere sham controlled by the dictator to require bishops to cooperate with them. In most cases, the dictator is simply looking for ways to crush the Church under his boot.

Historically, it has been the rare exception where civil courts dispense justice better than ecclesiastical ones.

 

[Godfollower]

I’m just wondering if there are any particular situations around the world - please give examples if you can - where it would not be wise for bishops to involve the civil authorities in allegations of abuse against their priests.

I ask this in light of the recent circular letter from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, dated May 3. While it is clear that it exhorts bishops to allow for the requirements of civil law, and it notes rightly that abuse is a crime in civil law as well as canon law, it notes:

Although relations with civil authority will differ in various countries

The only situation that really springs to mind is the parts of the world where the Church is underground. So, if the bishop and the offending priest are in a communist country and are both unknown to the authorities as Catholics, it might not work the same as in the U.S. – because the bishop (as far as the government knows) has no authority over (or even connection with) the priest.

That would not excuse the bishop from taking steps to protect the children; it would simply suggest that in some circumstances a formal “Dear authorities, please be advised of the following” memo would not be required.