Abuse scandal questions

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timber501

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I’ve heard that priests have lower pedophilia rates that general population but don’t have any hard data to back it up. I’m wondering what would be the best way to approach people who are attacking the catholic faith because of the scandal and crimes that Catholic church has committed throughout the ages?

I know that the individual sins do not damage what the Catholic Church stands for as we are all sinners but I don’t want to come across as defending the actions of the guilty as well.
 
In addition to the abuse was the cover up and failure to protect future victims or provide justice to prior victims. It is an institutional sin to protect power.

The majority of clergy are innocent of it all and yet because they are priests they consent to being part of the institution in spite of its human flaws. Image a seminarian today with full knowledge of the situation and yet still pursuing ordination because of the deeper spiritual reality. That takes a powerful call these days.
 
TheLittleLady said:
http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/child-and-youth-protection/upload/The-Nature-and-Scope-of-Sexual-Abuse-of-Minors-by-Catholic-Priests-and-Deacons-in-the-United-States-1950-2002.pdf

The John Jay report is important reading.
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I’m aware of this… It’s a long read … There’s been two versions of this report.

It points to pedophilia / homosexual activity amongst Catholic Clergy - is way above the Norm - Yes?

Which dovetails with the common knowledge of Millions of Catholics and others

Along with this (very unwelcomed by some!) Report of Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI
which evidences legions of Catholic priests (some who became bishops)
brought up in the atmosphere of an UnderGround Homosexual Milieu -

Full text of Benedict XVI: ‘The Church and the scandal of sexual abuse’​

Excerpts:

The long-prepared and ongoing process of dissolution of the Christian concept of morality was, as I have tried to show, marked by an unprecedented radicalism in the 1960s. This dissolution of the moral teaching authority of the Church necessarily had to have an effect on the diverse areas of the Church. In the context of the meeting of the presidents of the episcopal conferences from all over the world with Pope Francis, the question of priestly life, as well as that of seminaries, is of particular interest. As regards the problem of preparation for priestly ministry in seminaries, there is in fact a far-reaching breakdown of the previous form of this preparation.

In various seminaries homosexual cliques were established, which acted more or less openly and significantly changed the climate in the seminaries. In one seminary in southern Germany, candidates for the priesthood and candidates for the lay ministry of the pastoral specialist ( Pastoralreferent ) lived together. At the common meals, seminarians and pastoral specialists ate together, the married among the laymen sometimes accompanied by their wives and children, and on occasion by their girlfriends. The climate in this seminary could not provide support for preparation to the priestly vocation. The Holy See knew of such problems, without being informed precisely.
 
If a man wanted access to young boys, what an excellent strategy to hide in the clergy. Trusted position, access to families. Just like coaches, teachers, etc.

You can reveal the person’s bias if you say that a person can love baseball, love going to games, bring their kids to games and have their kids participate. No problem. However, if it was revealed that devious men with ill intention saw baseball as a means to gain access to young boys, and they became coaches, no fan of baseball would want the sport of baseball to be shut down because of it. Men thrown into prison? Absolutely. But keep the game available to kids. This kind of reasoning and common sense is often thrown out the window if it’s the Church. All kinds of filth and backlash is thrown on everything Catholic for the actions of devious men who came in to scam and deceive people.
 
PennyinCanada said:
If a man wanted access to young boys, what an excellent strategy to hide in the clergy. Trusted position, access to families. Just like coaches, teachers, etc.
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This might have been the case in some cases.

However, many a young man was changed After entering a seminary

The whole thing Stinks to high Heaven and reveals how easy it is for anyone to potentially succumb to Temptation to Sin Gravely – Including COVERUPS of Behaviors and zero concern for Victims

SHAME!

Always Maintain your FAITH in JESUS
 
EndTimes said:
Always Maintain your FAITH in JESUS
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In Jesus yes, and refrain from painting all coaches, teachers, priests, etc. with the same brush, at the same time be aware of established safe practices.
 
Sometimes we might end up throwing our pearls before swine, meaning we try to present a rational explanation but the other person is too swept up in passion and anger for it to make a dent. In these cases it is better to share in their grievance and then pray for them.
 
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I understand the bulk of clergy abuse has been directed to young males beyond puberty. I am not sure at what age/de developmental stage we cease to label the abuse pedophilia and the abuser a pedophile.
 
While the term “pedophilia” has a specific meaning and age cutoff to those in certain fields like psychology, we need to remember that the general public often has a different and broader understanding of the term and will use it to describe anyone who is sexually attracted to or sexually abusing/harassing any minor under the legal age of consent or in a subordinate position to the older person (for example, a high school student who is above legal consent age generally but whom the law declares “off limits” to an adult who is their teacher, principal, coach etc. ).

It’s a weak argument to say, “The priest didn’t commit pedophilia because his victim was 16 and that’s ephebophilia, not pedophilia”. The person hearing that is likely to react by saying, “I don’t care what word games you want to play, it was disgusting and it hurt the victim” which is likely true. I’ve even seem someone try to claim a priest didn’t commit sexual abuse because all he was doing was soliciting nude photos from minors online and he never actually met up with them. That’s not going to fly either.

Best to just own up to the bad acts some priests have done, including to young girls and women - the emphasis on homosexuality tends to just ignore the huge number of girls and women who were also harmed - and focus on how the Church is working hard to prevent such incidents going forward and quickly remove offenders instead of just ignoring the problem or transferring them.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
It’s a weak argument to say, “The priest didn’t commit pedophilia because his victim was 16 and that’s ephebophilia, not pedophilia”.
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I wasn’t making an argument - certainly not one to lessen the heinous nature of the crime. I don’t see much difference between abusing a 12 year old or a 14 year old.
Tis_Bearself said:
Best to just own up to the bad acts some priests have done, including to young girls and women - the emphasis on homosexuality tends to just ignore the huge number of girls and women who were also harmed
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I am not denying any bad acts. Properly understanding the nature of the deeds done (which span a spectrum) does not diminish any victim.
 
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Yes, I didn’t mean that to sound like I was lecturing you. I was just building on your point about what age does it stop being pedophilia.
 
timber501 said:
I’m wondering what would be the best way to approach people who are attacking the catholic faith because of the scandal and crimes that Catholic church has committed throughout the ages?
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Be honest, it happened, and due to protocols being put in place, it should never ever happen again. Evil happens everywhere, not just in the Church. That is not a good argument though, so avoid that one.

The guilty should be facing the full force of civil law, that is the law of the country, just as any other criminal would.
 
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Rau said:
I am not sure at what age/de developmental stage we cease to label the abuse pedophilia and the abuser a pedophile.
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The medical/legal community do have a specific point. Puberty.
Tis_Bearself said:
“The priest didn’t commit pedophilia because his victim was 16 and that’s ephebophilia, not pedophilia”.
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I for one do not use it as an argument, but, an encouragement that we define the terms in our conversation, precisely because:
Tis_Bearself said:
  • the emphasis on homosexuality tends to just ignore the huge number of girls and women who were also harmed -
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timber501 said:
to approach people who are attacking the catholic faith because of the scandal and crimes that Catholic church has committed throughout the ages?
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First, they’re probably already predisposed to attack the Catholic faith and are using the abuse problems as an excuse to pile on.

Second, simply stating that the bag guys and the Catholic faith are not one in the same is the most reasonable approach. Reasonable people will understand this perspective.

Third, if they don’t, you’re wasting your time and aggravation by trying to convince them.
 
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