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Jonah

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I’m going to be straight forward because I see no other way to do this.

My best friend is having an affair with priest. I am so confused about this as she goes to receive communion. It makes me kind of mad actually. I have been in an affair myself and it tears me up inside. I go to mass, but don’t receive communion. Everytime I go it’s a conviction against me. I am depressed about it. She receives communion because this priest forgives her sins! That is so messed up or is it?

Now, my best friend is seeing a priest. He is telling her there is nothing wrong with it because “Everything that God created is good. Sex is good and healthy.”

I have never justified my own affair and I’m not a judgemental person, but I must say that my friends affair has caused quite a confusion in my soul.
 
Maybe I’m seeing things. Did you mean that your friend and the Priest are having sexual relations? Or that she is having an affair, continues the affair, still receives communion, and the Priest hears her confession?

If it’s the first, they need to be reported. If it’s the second, it’s none of your business.
 
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Jonah:
I’m . She receives communion because this priest forgives her sins! That is so messed up or is it?

.
a priest cannot forgive the sins of a person with whom’s sins he is a party to or a cooperator. That is one of the most grievous offenses against canon law, and he is automatically excommunicated and this can only be lifted by the Pope. If you know for absolute fact this is true, it must be reported to his bishop because there is a potential all his Masses and sacramental actions can be invalidated. It effects more than your friend, who is an analogous position to a woman having and affair with a married man, it involves the welfare of the parish and the whole Church.
 
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puzzleannie:
a priest cannot forgive the sins of a person with whom’s sins he is a party to or a cooperator. That is one of the most grievous offenses against canon law, and he is automatically excommunicated and this can only be lifted by the Pope. If you know for absolute fact this is true, it must be reported to his bishop because there is a potential all his Masses and sacramental actions can be invalidated. It effects more than your friend, who is an analogous position to a woman having and affair with a married man, it involves the welfare of the parish and the whole Church.
You are right. Canon 1378 says automatic excommunication for absolution of an accomplace.
 
Dear Jonah,
My best friend is having an affair with priest. I am so confused about this as she goes to receive communion. It makes me kind of mad actually. I have been in an affair myself and it tears me up inside. I go to mass, but don’t receive communion. Everytime I go it’s a conviction against me. I am depressed about it. She receives communion because this priest forgives her sins! That is so messed up or is it?
Have you actually seen them together regularly? Do you know for an absolute fact that what your friend says is true? The reason I write this is due to having posted a thread just recently about a priest/saint who was falsely calumniated for having an affair with a woman and allegedly had a child through her. You may want to do a search: St. Gerard, Patron of those falsely accused.

Some women fantacize due to unhealthy mental states, and find special delight in being the favorites of priests. They are promiscuous in trying to attract the priest to themselves, and glory in being able to capture the heart of one who is consecrated.

What “sin” is it that the priest is forgiving in her case? The attachment of their hearts? Or the attachment of their bodies? Big difference, but I suspect that since you used the word affair, it is a commonly understood term in our culture that means a sexual involvement.

Carole
 
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Jonah:
I’m going to be straight forward because I see no other way to do this.

My best friend is having an affair with priest. I am so confused about this as she goes to receive communion. It makes me kind of mad actually. I have been in an affair myself and it tears me up inside. I go to mass, but don’t receive communion. Everytime I go it’s a conviction against me. I am depressed about it. She receives communion because this priest forgives her sins! That is so messed up or is it?

Now, my best friend is seeing a priest. He is telling her there is nothing wrong with it because “Everything that God created is good. Sex is good and healthy.”

I have never justified my own affair and I’m not a judgemental person, but I must say that my friends affair has caused quite a confusion in my soul.
I think that I would go to confession to the Priest. Tell him that you are having an affair, that you are sorry (then stop, you are a sinner and need to stop) and then mention that your friend (mention her name) is having an affair with a “certain” Priest. If this affair doesn’t stop, no matter “how good and healthy” it is, then you will go to this Priest’s Bishop. If he reacts or if it ends, then it is true.

If he has no reaction or the affair does not stop, your friend is telling tales and needs to be prayed for.
 
Wow! If you are positive about this, you need to go straight to the bishop’s office. If you even suspect your friend might be delusional, you still might want to talk to him. Just call and make an appointment with his office and tell them it’s regarding one of his priests and that it’s an emergency. That should get you in the door pretty quick.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
I think that I would go to confession to the Priest. Tell him that you are having an affair, that you are sorry (then stop, you are a sinner and need to stop) and then mention that your friend (mention her name) is having an affair with a “certain” Priest. If this affair doesn’t stop, no matter “how good and healthy” it is, then you will go to this Priest’s Bishop. If he reacts or if it ends, then it is true.

If he has no reaction or the affair does not stop, your friend is telling tales and needs to be prayed for.
While I like the idea, I’m not too sure it would be good to engage in a sacrament under a guise. If he’s not the pastor, she might want to try the pastor first. If he is the pastor, he could retaliate with “the women is crazy”. I think if Jonah knows for sure, it would be wiser to contact a higher up. Jonah could confront the priest in the confessional but I would do it outside of an actual confession.
 
The Sacraments that the priest is celebrating are NOT invalidated because of his sinfulness, although it is scandalous to say the least IF this is true. If he baptizes, then they are bapitzed etc no matter HOW saintly or sinful he is.
 
Dear H Opey,
The Sacraments that the priest is celebrating are NOT invalidated because of his sinfulness, …
That was my understanding, as well. Two Doctors of the Church, St. Catherine of Siena and St. Teresa of Jesus (Avila) have both said in their writings, coming directly from the Lord, that no matter how mortally sinful the priest is, God has preserved them from invalidly celebrating Mass or the sacraments. The latter saint had a vision of a priest elevating the host, where Jesus was held between the hands of the devil himself. The Lord then explained to her that she received this vision to have absolute trust in the power of ordination and its total effectiveness.

I looked up Canon 977 and 1378, and it perplexed me somewhat as to what “latae sententiae” means, and “reserved to the Apostolic See.” Does the Apostolic See have to excommunicate him? Meanwhile, are the Mass and sacraments valid? I understood initially from Puzzleannie that excommunication was immediate through the priest’s own sinful action. Can you help us?

Can. 1378 §1 A priest who acts against the prescription of Can. 977 incurs a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the ApostolicSee.

Carole
 
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Joysong:
Dear Jonah,

Have you actually seen them together regularly? Do you know for an absolute fact that what your friend says is true? The reason I write this is due to having posted a thread just recently about a priest/saint who was falsely calumniated for having an affair with a woman and allegedly had a child through her. You may want to do a search: St. Gerard, Patron of those falsely accused.

Some women fantacize due to unhealthy mental states, and find special delight in being the favorites of priests. They are promiscuous in trying to attract the priest to themselves, and glory in being able to capture the heart of one who is consecrated.

What “sin” is it that the priest is forgiving in her case? The attachment of their hearts? Or the attachment of their bodies? Big difference, but I suspect that since you used the word affair, it is a commonly understood term in our culture that means a sexual involvement.

Carole
I too was thinking along the same lines as Carole on this. I have known some people who are a little messed up in the head to talk about sexual affairs that aren’t happening (maybe wishful thinking on the part of the person). This could have such serious consequences for a priest, who may actually be fully innocent. Therefore, great care and prudence needs to be taken. Personally, I believe the friend needs to be confronted, with charity, but with firm conviction of what is right and wrong. But, there is a way to check out our obligations in such cases.

If a friend of mine told me that she was having sexual relations with a priest and she claimed that same priest was “forgiving her sins” for the relations, I would take one of two approaches.
  1. I would talk to my own priest, in confession, and tell him what my friend has told me to find out if there are any obligations on my part. Does the priest feel I am guilty of omission in not confronting her (maybe a good application of when we should provide “counsel”) . Does the priest feel I should report it to the bishop?
  2. Ask to speak directly to the bishop on the phone, without revealing my name or the name of those involved and explain the scenario. Then, once again, find out if he feels you are obligated in any way to say anything, or to encourage them to end it. If this priest is forgiving her sins, it does sound like he has incurred latae sententiae, which is automatic excommunication. Here is some limited explanation, differentiating.:
An excommunication is the heaviest spiritual sanction the Church can render. So long as it is in force, it bars the excommunicated person from the church community and from receiving most of the sacraments, as well as from all public associations affiliated with the Church. An automatic (or “latae sententiae”) excommunication is an especially severe penalty. The nine or so latae sententiae excommunications in the Code are reserved for use against certain things the Church particularly wants to deter, like assaulting the pope (can.1370) and priests divulging matters heard in the confessional (can.1388). Most excommunications can only follow a tribunal trial (can. 1425, §1, 2°). But latae sententiae penalties operate like a bill of attainder in that there is no “process” for their imposition–the fact that the person voluntarily performed the proscribed act, in the absence of some exception provided in the law, means the penalty is incurred. An excommunication can usually be lifted by the local bishop (the “local ordinary”) and sometimes by a priest during confession (can. 1354-1357).

Source: http://members.aol.com/abtrbng/canonl.htm
 
H Opey:
The Sacraments that the priest is celebrating are NOT invalidated because of his sinfulness, although it is scandalous to say the least IF this is true. If he baptizes, then they are bapitzed etc no matter HOW saintly or sinful he is.
Hi H Opey…as I understand matters and in accord with the teaching of St. Augustine…a priest in the state of most heineous sin still celebrates Mass and The Sacraments validly. Nothing is invalidated because of the sin of a priest as far as Mass and The Sacraments are concerned.
Nevertheless, the problem of the person who started this thread is an unenviable one. Were it my problem, I think I would report it to my Archbishop including all the facts which may indicate that my knowledge or summizing may be incorrect to protect the priest in question if the accusation is false and also the woman involved if she has not been telling the truth. I’d let my Archbishop sort it out.
If the accusation is correct, it has potential to do terrible harm not only to the priest and woman in question, but through creating scandal. Let the Archbishop sort it out after presenting him with ALL facts…and then be in peace on the matter.

If you do feel that the situation is as this woman has presented it, then you have something of an obligation to act and in the interest of others, as well as your own peace of mind and the priest and woman involved. But be sure to present the Archbishop with ALL actual facts…including that this woman may not have been telling you the truth.

Were it my problem, I would also inform the woman that I have an obligation to report the situation to my Archbishop and that I intend to do so outlining to him all the facts to which I have access.

Barb, Sth. Aust.
 
I think that I would go to confession to the Priest. Tell him that you are having an affair, that you are sorry (then stop, you are a sinner and need to stop)
BTDT!

I know that I am a sinner… but then so are you, aren’t you?

I believe this is abuse. My friend has always had a weakness when it come to men making passes at her. (Due to her lack of male influence in her life. But I’m not trying to justify her behavior.)
She told this priest about her past and grrr… I think he took advantage of her.

The priest told her that (paraphrasing) if there is love between two people it is not a sin… IF THIS IS SO TRUE THEN WHY AM IT TORTMENTING MYSELF? Because I know that he is full of ****.

I cannot go to the Bishop… isn’t that like the pot calling the kettle black. I have no place to be judgemental or to even throw a stone their way. I’m just as guilty…

Just for the record my friend is not delusional… I think she knows if she has had sex with a priest. Delusional perhaps about their future, but that’s about it.

But I have to say that I have never seen them in the act of sex. Now, do I think that my best friend would lie to me… ummm NO. We know each others lives pretty well.
 
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Joysong:
I looked up Canon 977 and 1378, and it perplexed me somewhat as to what “latae sententiae” means, and “reserved to the Apostolic See.” Does the Apostolic See have to excommunicate him? Meanwhile, are the Mass and sacraments valid? I understood initially from Puzzleannie that excommunication was immediate through the priest’s own sinful action. Can you help us?
My understanding is: Even an excommunicate priest validly administers the sacraments (all other things (intending what the Church intends, et cetera) being equal). Consider our separated brethren, the Orthodox, with whom we are not in communion but who have valid sacraments.

tee
(Not a Canon Lawyer)
 
Sometimes we have to do things that are hard. It is up to you. IF you do not go to the Bishop, at least do this. Make sure your friend understands how serious this is(mortal), and what jeaopardy she puts herself in AND the priest. Also, if you do decide to speak with the Bishop, please include your name or he might “trash it”.
God Bless
Also, there are times when we do have to correct people. It is hard and it may mean you make enemies, but that is when YOU have to decide what God is calling you to do. 👍
 
H Opey is right Jonah. There are times when correction is necessary. The prohibition against judgement refers to people, not actions.

And, as others have told you, you need to stop your affair. I’ve been there and done that, and in the strongest possible terms, it just isn’t worth it.

One thing I want to make you aware of is Canon 220, which states “No one is permitted to harm illegitimately the good reputation which a person possesses nor to injure the right of any person to protect his or her own privacy.” The key word is illegitimately. If you go to the bishop, make sure your ducks are in order and you present what you think you know clearly and concisely. Others in this thread have recommended you speak with another priest about it, that might be a wise move before going to the bishop.

This is a tough one. You and your friend and the priest will be in my prayers.
 
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Jonah:
BTDT!

I know that I am a sinner… but then so are you, aren’t you?

I believe this is abuse. My friend has always had a weakness when it come to men making passes at her. (Due to her lack of male influence in her life. But I’m not trying to justify her behavior.)
She told this priest about her past and grrr… I think he took advantage of her.

The priest told her that (paraphrasing) if there is love between two people it is not a sin… IF THIS IS SO TRUE THEN WHY AM IT TORTMENTING MYSELF? Because I know that he is full of ****.

I cannot go to the Bishop… isn’t that like the pot calling the kettle black. I have no place to be judgemental or to even throw a stone their way. I’m just as guilty…

Just for the record my friend is not delusional… I think she knows if she has had sex with a priest. Delusional perhaps about their future, but that’s about it.

But I have to say that I have never seen them in the act of sex. Now, do I think that my best friend would lie to me… ummm NO. We know each others lives pretty well.
Why would you be worried about reporting a scandalous priest to his bishop? He is abusing his power as a priest. Your friend is probably not the first person he has done this to nor will she probably be the last unless he is stopped. This is not about throwing stones. This is about protecting your friend’s (and the priest and anyone else he might be doing this with) mortal soul.
 
Why would you be worried about reporting a scandalous priest to his bishop?
Because this scandalous priest is having an affair with my best friend. I would rather deal with her. The affair is only about 3 months. He has really brainwashed my friend into believing that it’s no big deal, he is a man in love with her and sex is a natural progression; they are consenting and two adults in love.

The thing that makes me upset is that she is receiving communion. I told her that she shouldn’t and she said that he had forgiven her. GRRRRR…

And thank you for your concern for me I accept your prayers. I thank God for being patient and merciful with me during this hideous crime of mine. He is my Rock and my Refuge.
 
If you are then STOP, Go to confession and then get on with your life. If you are not then Go to confession and get on with your life. If you do one of the above you are no longer a hippocrite and can go to the Bishop. If you are in an affair and wont stop you are playing roullette with eternity.
 
Yes, I am. I don’t want to make this thread about me, but I want to say one thing about my affair. IF leaving it was as easy as just saying “stop it” it would have been over a decade ago.

Thank you for all the response.

I was mostly curious if this priest could indeed forgive the sin of his accomplice. If he can then she is so much better off than I. ( I will continue to talk her out of this relationship)
 
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