Abuse

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Hmmm…do you find it odd that she’d invite you to lunch with them?
Not really. It makes the relationship look innocent.

This priest in not our parish priest. He traveled at least 30 minutes to get to her house.

My friend is (was) involved with a retreat group. He is the Spiritual Director of this group. He told her that under the circumstances they had to be very discreet. She told him that I knew and that I was okay. Okay in the sense that I am her best friend and confidant. But from the beginning when she told me I have never approved of this relationship nor do I encourage it in any way.
 
Dear Jonah,

In my diocese, as in others no doubt, I have learned about a few priests who left the ministry to marry their girlfriends. :crying: You might ask your friend how she would live with her conscience for destroying the priest’s ministry to hundreds of souls over his entire lifetime, in order to keep his heart (which is consecrated to God) for herself. What a terrible judgment she faces from her Creator for permitting herself to be the cause of his demise as a priest!

You alone may be able to share some wisdom to help her see and overcome her blindness. It’s not “all about ME,” and my right to love, life and happiness. It’s about the eternal souls of others, for which she is partly responsible for refusing to give up the relationship.

Carole
 
Every priest, without an exception, is a sinner. Many priests, like many lay people, are sinners against chastity. The next perfect priest I will meet will be the first.

I just don’t think snitching really helps out, it will only destroy the man’s ministry and his reputation permanently.

In a similar situation to the initial post in this thread, I used to be a cab driver. One of the semi-steady patrons was a gentleman who I absolutely knew to be a priest and I picked him up at a local bathhouse in the middle of the night.

For professional reasons of course, I was committed to confidentiality so I couldn’t and wouldn’t snitch or utter a word. Eventually, he quit calling for a cab, I can only hope that he turned from what he was doing although I wouldn’t know.

I think that all that someone can do is to realize that priests, like all men , are weak sinners and they will fall. And pray for them and hope they turn from their sins.
 
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Kielbasi:
I just don’t think snitching really helps out, it will only destroy the man’s ministry and his reputation permanently.
I understand where you’re coming from, but how, in good conscience, can one know a fallen priest and not offer to help him? Consider his ministry is already destroyed. Your added word “permanently” suggests it’s better to have the ministry destroyed temporarily, yet I can’t believe Jesus would view it that way.

While going to the bishop may be going a bit overboard too early, something still must be done to help this priest. He honestly believes what he is doing is ok!! It’s so bad he’s ok with his girlfriend sharing the situation with her best friend.** Someone** needs to reach out to him to re-explain his covenant with God and the reason for celibacy.

Now it shouldn’t be Jonah, because she’s not prepared for such a challenge and she’ll be too easily dismissed by the priest. So it seems we need to help figure out who, in the clergy and in this priest’s social/ministry circle, Jonah can share this information with charitably so that the Spirit can then work through that person to save this priest.

I can’t accept the information being revealed to Jonah is just supposed to sit there. I honestly believe the Spirit moved the friend to share it with Jonah because He knew Jonah would not be able to just stifle it. Perhaps He knew she would turn to us to help guide her, and perhaps we are being moved by the Spirit to help her…in the end it’s all about saving that priest. How can we turn our backs on that call?
 
something still must be done to help this priest. He honestly believes what he is doing is ok!!
I don’t think that the priest thinks that at all. Like Hawthorne’s Dimmesdale , its probably causing him a great deal of guilt, and like Dimmesdale he’s likely to turn around at the end.
I can’t accept the information being revealed to Jonah is just supposed to sit there.
I don’t think she should just “sit there”, she should be proactive and pray for the parties.
 
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Kielbasi:
I don’t think that the priest thinks that at all. Like Hawthorne’s Dimmesdale , its probably causing him a great deal of guilt, and like Dimmesdale he’s likely to turn around at the end.
Remember, he is consistently reassuring this girlfriend of his that it’s not sinful for them to be together and he knows that Jonah knows about their situation and is comfortable inviting her to a lunch date with them. How does that present the impression he is struggling with this??? To me, it suggests he stopped struggling some time ago and is now leaning toward forgetting all he was taught on the subject before.
I don’t think she should just “sit there”, she should be proactive and pray for the parties.
Why do you believe praying is enough, that there is no further obligation to her than that?
 
Dear Jonah,

You mentioned the need for “discretion” on the part of the priest and your friend. However, no discretion can be hidden forever, because God may cause their actions to become known precisely to force them to take a long hard look at their situation and repent.

I am personal friends with a township supervisor who receives calls in the winter for emergency road service. He received one from a priest who was scheduled to say mass in the parish on Sunday morning, yet he was unable to leave his secretary’s home at 6:00 a.m. due to a freak snowstorm that blanketed the area overnight. The supervisor had to send workers to plow the driveway for Father to get out.

One can only guess why a priest was staying there overnight, but the matter became known because the plowers repeated it in their circles. I personally saw this priest shopping in street clothes with this secretary, and others also observed similar encounters.
The scandal to the faithful is a very grave matter.

There is another matter I considered regarding your friend’s confessions. Is it not true that there must be a firm purpose of amendment for our sins to be absolved? In the Act of Contrition, we profess: “I firmly resolve to sin no more … and to avoid the near occasions of sin. Amen.” Can she honestly say in her “confessions” that she will not put herself in these occasions of sin? I have to wonder how many of these subsequent communions are sacriligeous due to improper absolution in confession. The gravity of their sins is being multiplied in many areas beyond the mere situation of their affair.

One needs only to read the section called “Mystical Body of Holy Church” in the Dialogue of St. Catherine of Siena, to weep with the Lord who shared His heart with Catherine about His priests who become ensnared in this sin. Awesome reading!

Carole
 
Well, I talked to her this morning. I told her that we were both going against God’s will and against the churches teaching. She said that it was God’s will that we be in this situation and … I said,"No, it is our will to be in this situation and we are going against Gods will. "

I did most of the talking… then she said, “I don’t regret my relationship.”

I don’t think that I can snitch on her and her boyfriend priest. I can’t betray her trust.

How can I tell her to leave her lover… when I can’t leave mine?

What a mess!
 
You express very ethical morals in not betraying your friend, yet have little concern about betraying the wife of your lover … ??? Or maybe it is also your husband.

THINK!

Matthew 16:26
For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

Ask a few betrayed spouses to reveal how it virtually destroys them to learn their beloved has been unfaithful with another. :ehh:
 
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Jonah:
How can I tell her to leave her lover… when I can’t leave mine?

What a mess!
Remember, you can leave your lover.
It’ll be difficult for certain, but it **can **be done with Christ.
Redirect your affections, your desires, your needs from your lover’s care to Christ’s and He will bring you home. You are not alone in this now, you will not be alone in this all along the way. Be not afraid, Jonah, please.

Perhaps it is through your leaving your lover that your friend will be able to leave hers. We are called to lead by example more than by what we say.
 
You express very ethical morals in not betraying your friend, yet have little concern about betraying the wife of your lover
You are right on both counts. (but I do have concern even more than a little)
Perhaps it is through your leaving your lover that your friend will be able to leave hers. We are called to lead by example more than by what we say
This has been on my mind all day.
 
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Jonah:
This has been on my mind all day.
Jonah, you are sooo in my prayers.
I will speak on your behalf to Our Lord at Eucharistic adoration this afternoon.

Peace be with you, friend.
 
I, too, have been praying for this entire situation for all concerned, and will join YYM as we continue in prayer. May Christ win the hearts of both of you!
 
archdiocese-chgo.org/departments/professional_responsibility/professional_responsibility.shtm

This is a link in our diocese to report any sexual abuse. It may be called like ours the Dept. of Professional responsibility… I would consider an affair even if it is consensual an abuse of his powers as a priest.

Perhaps there is a dept.similar to this in your own diocese. At least by reporting this behavior it will be investigated. This type of scandal is not healthy by anyone and a coverup, historically has proven to be very detrimental for all parties, most particularly the Body of Christ, the Church.

Pray on it.
 
It is correct to make an appt. with your Bishop and tell him what you know(he can discreetly find the truth). He is the only one who is qualified to deal with this priest. Our Bishop is frequently burdoned with the problems and sinfulness of the priests in our diocese, but he is quick to remind us all that he too is a sinner.
He does all he can to give guidance, counsel and in confession, absolution to priests that are sometimes not as mature as we would hope. He has had to relieve some priests from their duties or confirm that they need to leave the priesthood in very sad and infrequent cases.
The good news is that the Bishop might be able to help this priest find his way back to being faithful to his vows. That is what Bishops do! (and perhaps find some much needed counseling for your friend) Let him do his job, then you can begin to work on your own life.
This is all I can offer to this discussion which I feel is bordering on gossip of a priest and others that I do not know. Trust your Bishop to do what is needed and trust Jesus in His mercy.
 
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Jonah:
Well, I talked to her this morning. I told her that we were both going against God’s will and against the churches teaching. She said that it was God’s will that we be in this situation and … I said,"No, it is our will to be in this situation and we are going against Gods will. "

I did most of the talking… then she said, “I don’t regret my relationship.”

I don’t think that I can snitch on her and her boyfriend priest. I can’t betray her trust.

How can I tell her to leave her lover… when I can’t leave mine?

What a mess!
I’m of the belief that all of this would best be discussed with your confessor. All of us, or at least most of us, have sins to which we are attached. There is often a pet sin that is difficult to part with. I spent 20 years in “hell” over my pet sin, thinking it was hopeless.

When Pope John Paul II died, I woke up, then sought out a Catholic priest who would drive me to hold myself accountable - something less likely out of a progressive minded priest who himself dissents on multiple issues (been there; done that).

The result was that it abruptly came to an end and brought about the truest joy I ever felt. It was liberating and it is why St. John of the Cross writes about attachment to apetites as a form of painful bondage. You are living it and giving testimony to that through the pain I see in your words as you continue to resist change. An athlete will always remain mediocre without a good coach. Most ball players cannot grow to their full potential without that coach pointing out this detail and that - all things difficult for the athlete to see himself. The coach provides techniques.

But, first, you must truly want to give up that pet sin.

Choose God and find fulfillment in Him, not someone here on earth. The Church still does teach the last four things: Death, Judgment, Heaven and Hell. Hell is real for those who know of their sinfulness, but choose not to work on it. Working on it, requires action, not well intentioned thinking. Contrary to what the culture will teach you, all of your good works will not get you into heaven if you die in mortal sin. You risk hell and the loss of heaven for eternity.

People do not decided what is good and bad, God does. Therefore, no matter how comforted you may feel by this affair, you still violate one of the 10 commandments, emblazened in the tablets by God Himself in committing the sin of adultery. Such sin is a choice. What makes it difficult are the effects of original sin - called concupiscence. We gravitate towards the easier route, which is often sinful. When we use the sacrament of confession we receive grace, which is the very thing that gives us strength to do that which pleases God and reject that which displeases HIm. When we follow confession up with Holy Communion, and each time we receive, we receive more grace.
By staying in this relationship and refraining from confession and communion, you receive no graces in which to fight concupiscence. It’s like trying to run a marathon, but refusing all nourishment.

The fact that you even dropped into this forum to discuss your sin, and that of your friend, reveals God is tapping on your heart and providing you with some grace. Grace must always be acted on. Recognizing the need for confession is a grace as well. Hopefully, you act on that because it is a gift from God. Don’t reject His gift.

After reading through this thread, I’m convinced you need to worry less about your friend right now and more about your own salvation. Bottom line is that it is difficult to help her when you won’t help yourself. The way you help yourself is to get out of this relationship you are in, and do it now. Get that orthodox priest to challenge you, trust God, and ask Him to give you the graces necessary to make this most difficult step.

I’ll pray for you.
 
this is the second thread i read as a new member, and wow, what a thread!

the two things that stand out for me are your claims that 1) you feel hypocritical about reporting the affair because you yourself are in one, and 2) you love the church in spite of your own sins.

the two don’t add up as far as i can see - if you really regard the church as separate/ more than yourself, then you will report the abuse, no matter what your state of sin/ grace.

it wouldn’t be hypocritical at all - you would simply be showing that you love the church more than yourself. it’s ok to be stuck in sin, so long as you’re trying to fight your way out of it in some way, but it’s not ok as a member of the church that you rightly love to allow a priest to do such things.

your friendship with the lady has very little, morally, to do with anything, as far as i can figure.

all that i can see is that you’re a sincere catholic who is stuck in sin and who knows of another sin which you are wrongly connecting to yourself. in reality they are entirely separate issues, but i can understand how they seem connected when you’re in the state and situation that you’re in.

report the priest, for the church’s sake. even for the priest’s sake.

if you really hold the church in higher esteem than yourself or your friendships, then you will do this.
**
“‘What about you?’ he asked them, ‘Who do you say I am?’”
(Luke 9:20)**
 
So after much thought… I approached her about her affair.

I told her that I held priest to a higher standard of ethics.
She responded that he was just a man and no one is perfect.

She asked me if I was scandalized. I told her that I was. Even though I am having my own affair the fact that she has a priest for a boyfriend does not sit well with me. She said, “I’m sorry.”

Then she told me that she felt that she was doing God’s will. “How?” I asked her and she said, “If it was not Gods will that I be here I wouldn’t be here.” My God… Is this woman insane?

Then she went on to say that she did NOT know if what she was doing was right or wrong… :crying: . She didn’t know if what the church was teaching was what God wanted… So in my distress I told her that if she didn’t know** if** what the church was teach was right or wrong to please not receive communion.

She told me that she had witnessed my affair and that she never judged it as right or wrong, she just saw it as a great love.

True.

But I told her that I have always known that my affair was wrong in the eyes God and of the church.

I told her that I had thought about turning Priestly into the bishop and she said that he was not under the Bishop that he was free. I did not understand that. Aren’t all priest under the Bishop of the diocese in which they serve? (Priest is from San Salvador)

Then she said, "Don’t worry about me, I’m not going to try to take this priest away from the people. He loves serving God. "

I’m exhausted.
 
God bless you, Jonah, for talking to your friend! I think God placed you in this situation for the spiritual benefit of all of you.

Regarding the bishop question: I know that in some cases, if a priest is an order priest, they may come under a different jurisdiction than the local bishop. I knew of a situation (decades ago, now) where a priest was ministering in a locality, but, because he was a member of an order, he technically didn’t fall under the local bishop. As a result, sometimes, priests in those types of situations can “fall through the cracks” when it comes to discipline issues.

If you decide that talking to a bishop is the way to go, find out, if you can, what order this priest may belong to, and who his surperiors are.

God bless you, Jonah. I agree with some other posters. I think God is calling out to you to come back to Him. I admire your awareness of your own situation.
 
It does not matter if the priest is from an other order or is a missionary priest. If he is in a position to minister to a parish within the diocese, he does so at the discretion of his Bishop. He may have a superior in his order, but he only has permission to say mass or perform his priestly duties within the diocese as delegated by the Bishop.

Granted, most Bishops would not use this power lightly, but this is a serious situation and the Bishop should be notified. He is the one who can assist this priest in the salvation of his soul and stop him from leading others into sin.

The Bishop would most likely involve this priest’s superiors in the situation as well; all for the benefit of a priest who badly needs guidance and perhaps some time away from his duties to do so.

And as I said before, then you can deal with your own issues. Take yourself out of the middle of this. Sometimes people find it exciting or at least interesting to be on the inside of a “juicy” bit of information like this, but it is not spiritually or emotionally healthy.
 
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