Abuses and Irregularities in EWTN Masses?

[Rickwood]

Perhaps because the written word means a lot. You can reference the document, whatever position it will take. Having a document in hand is still worth something. We may live in an electronic age, but, a document, especially concerning something this important, is in black and white. It is concrete.

What you don’t realize – and what the cardinal explained is that there is no prohibition against processing-up and receiving a blessing during communion in any Church document.

You also don’t seem to realize that the documents are crafted and approved to allow leeway and subtly – in this case leaving the ultimate decision to the local ordinary. Not everything is black and white.

Again, aside from your misinterpretation of the specific document in this case, not understanding the intent, authority and reach of the Church’s liturgical documents in general appears to be a source of confusion for you.

Though I am certain I have read and studied just as many if not more such documents than you, my overall understanding is still at a neophyte stage.

I do however have the education and training to resoundingly reject clearly erroneous notions like “it it’s not in the GIRM/RS then it must be an abuse!”"

 

[Rickwood]

However, there have been times when the local ordinaries (and even conferences) have completely botched things. Take the Australians, for example. In 2000, they were all taken to the sacramental woodshed by Pope John Paul II because the local ordinaries were allowing a wholesale use of General Absolution and other grave issues related to the Sacrament of Penance. It got the point that the CDWDS, at the request of Pope John Paul II, had to issue a document specifically spelling out how the Sacrament of Penance was to be administered.

I wouldn’t necessarily get too triumphal, Rick. There is probably more to this than meets the eye.

Given Cardinal Arinze’s videoed explanation, why can’t you admit that you are in error on this matter?

 

[mammallama]

Regarding the blessing, it is still that, a substitute. Have you ever tried remaining in your pew, kneeling and making a Spiritual Communion as the Church understands that to be. It entails asking the Lord to come into your heart. No physical activity is required as far as going up and getting a blessing is concerned.

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HUH? Do you honestly think you are trying to be helpful?Can’t I being doing both.I attend Mass in person every Sunday and watch it on EWTN everyday the rest of the week so I am familiar with the spiritual communion prayers.So one day a week I ask the priest to bless me then say the prayer and the other six days I say the prayer along with the televised Mass.

 

[benedictgal]

Given Cardinal Arinze’s videoed explanation, why can’t you admit that you are in error on this matter?

Well, maybe it helps to have a document. Surely, you, of all people, wouldn’t approach your bishop with something and try to justify it by saying, “Well, Cardnial Arinze said this and it was posted on YouTube.” That wouldn’t work at all. He’d want something in writing.

You can reference a document, not YouTube.

You say that you’ve read the documents. Just what is your experience with the liturgy?

 

[benedictgal]

HUH? Do you honestly think you are trying to be helpful?Can’t I being doing both.I attend Mass in person every Sunday and watch it on EWTN everyday the rest of the week so I am familiar with the spiritual communion prayers.So one day a week I ask the priest to bless me then say the prayer and the other six days I say the prayer along with the televised Mass.

So, what is wrong with saying the prayers during the Mass you are actually attending and remaining in your pew, in silent contemplation? It’s the same concept, only, it’s live, and not Memorex, and you are there.

What I am saying is that we live in an age where we feel that if we aren’t included in the activity, then, something is missing. We feel that just because we can’t receive that we should still be in line and at least get something for our efforts, almost like a consolation prize.

Even 30 years ago, this kind of thing would not have happened. As I said earlier, those who couldn’t come to the altar were encouraged to make a spiritual communion, offering up their pain at not being able to receive Our Lord and asking Him to strengthen them and to prepare them for such time when they could actually receive Him.

 

[Rickwood]

Well, maybe it helps to have a document. Surely, you, of all people, wouldn’t approach your bishop with something and try to justify it by saying, “Well, Cardnial Arinze said this and it was posted on YouTube.” That wouldn’t work at all. He’d want something in writing.

You can reference a document, not YouTube.

You say that you’ve read the documents. Just what is your experience with the liturgy?

No need for a document. They are already aware of what the cardinal explained in the video – there is no prohibition from the Church on processing up for a blessing during communion. They are also aware that the Church documents are not always black and white.

I’ll ask again. Given the cardinal’s videoed explanation (and not simply an answer based on his personal understanding), what keeps you from admitting your error in understanding this matter?

 

[benedictgal]

No need for a document. They are already aware of what the cardinal explained in the video – there is no prohibition from the Church on processing up for a blessing during communion. They are also aware that the Church documents are not always black and white.

I’ll ask again. Given the cardinal’s videoed explanation (and not simply an answer based on his personal understanding), what keeps you from admitting your error in understanding this matter?

It is not an error. What is wrong with asking for clarification and a definitive statement, Rick? What is wroing with asking for clarity? Any lay person is free to write to the Congregation to ask for that.

 

[Rickwood]

So, what is wrong with saying the prayers during the Mass you are actually attending and remaining in your pew, in silent contemplation? It’s the same concept, only, it’s live, and not Memorex, and you are there.

NO ONE said there was anything “wrong with saying the prayers during the Mass you are actually attending and remaining in your pew, in silent contemplation”

Don’t do that anymore…

What I am saying is that we live in an age where we feel that if we aren’t included in the activity, then, something is missing. We feel that just because we can’t receive that we should still be in line and at least get something for our efforts, almost like a consolation prize.

Now you are claiming to know what others feel when they process up and avail themselves to a blessing during communion?!?

**Even 30 years ago, this kind of thing would not have happened. ** As I said earlier, those who couldn’t come to the altar were encouraged to make a spiritual communion, offering up their pain at not being able to receive Our Lord and asking Him to strengthen them and to prepare them for such time when they could actually receive Him.

Over 30 years ago it certainly happened here – and I was there to personally witness it.

 

[Rickwood]

It is not an error. What is wrong with asking for clarification and a definitive statement, Rick? What is wroing with asking for clarity? Any lay person is free to write to the Congregation to ask for that.

Your personal beliefs that:

*a.) The GIRM and/or RS prohibit people from availing themselves to processing up and receiving a blessing during communion.

b.) “If it’s not in the GIRM/RS/other Church document then it MUST be an abuse”*

have both been showed to be untrue by the videoed explanations of Cardinal Arinze.

I’m just curious why you cannot concede that you are mistaken in your understanding of the documents under question?

 

[mammallama]

What I am saying is that we live in an age where we feel that if we aren’t included in the activity, then, something is missing. We feel that just because we can’t receive that we should still be in line and at least get something for our efforts, almost like a consolation prize.

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We do? Who is this “we”??? I was invited to do so by the priest that is doing his very best to protect me and my eternal salvation.Perhaps you would care to be consulted the next time he offers council? Are you saying that you know more than my priest and bishop?

 

[Atreyu]

Perhaps because the written word means a lot. You can reference the document, whatever position it will take. Having a document in hand is still worth something. We may live in an electronic age, but, a document, especially concerning something this important, is in black and white. It is concrete.

Protestant.

Seriously: think about what you are saying!

 

[Atreyu]

As soon as you provide documentation that your rejection of this idea is a valid rejection.

Others have given you the answer you are looking for.

It would be nice if held up your end of quid pro quo.

Protestant: “If it’s not in the Bible, then it’s wrong!”

Rickwood: “You are incorrect.”

Protestant: “Show me where it says that in the Bible!”
Maurin, in my fake conversation above, try substituting “Protestant” for “Maurin”, and “Bible” for “GIRM/RS” and you should be able to see why Rickwood has found your requests so strange. You are in effect trying to get him to prove the very opposition point of what he is trying to prove.

 

[Atreyu]

Simply asking Cardinal Arinze for clarification is not taking anyone on, Rick. You have been most uncharitable in your responses and in your thread. You’ve been making a lot of comments in this thread without backing them up. Furthermore, you complain about EWTN and rant about what they are doing without even bothering to ask them why.

Since when does asking for clarification, in a spirit of filial inquiry, ever constitute questioning authority?

(my emphasis).

Bendedictgal, you have repeatedly accused Rickwood of criticising EWTN, when he clearly has not. I think it is time you clearly show where Rickwood:

1. 
   *]Complains about EWTN,
   *]Rants about what EWTN is doing.
   
   If you cannot do these two things, then you yourself are clearly guilty of “making a lot of comments in this thread without backing them up”. If you can’t substantiate your claims, then you need to repent of your false witness.

 

[BSHoop96]

Many of us consider the daily televised EWTN Masses on EWTN to be fairly good examples of Masses with few abuses or irregularities.

Some on these forums are now suggesting that if something is not specifically directed in the GIRM or RS that it should NOT be done during the Mass. That doing so is an “abuse” (or more likely an irregularity.)

While I resolutely reject that mindset, I’m wondering how the EWTN Mass measures up to such a standard? Following are some of the things I see on televised EWTN Masses:

• The processional cross is not “put away.”
• Two corporals are used on top of the altar cloth.

*** The inside of the chalice is wiped after wine is poured into it.**

• Some of their servers prostrate themselves during the consecration.
• They briefly ring the sanctus bells as the priest consumed the Precious Blood.
• People process-up for and receive blessing during communion.
• An ablution cup is placed on the altar and it is used by those distributing Mass.

Could these seemingly pious/harmless practices and materials actually constitute “liturgical” abuses?

I highlighted one thing to point out how you are totally exaggerating what went on in the other thread. When we say insert things in the Mass any logical person knows we’re not talking about when the priest takes a drink of water or something which is something that was brought up on the other thread.

And by the way, you never answered the question I asked you at least twice.

Would you kindly tell us if you are you Catholic and if so, which part of the country are you from?

btw, I love EWTN but that doesn’t mean you should be using them as your authority.

 

[Rickwood]

It is not an error. What is wrong with asking for clarification and a definitive statement, Rick? What is wroing with asking for clarity? Any lay person is free to write to the Congregation to ask for that.

Do you honestly believe that this matter is actually up in the air? It’s not. If you’re lucky you’ll get what the good Cardinal said in writing – which likely already exists and either has not been published or was published in an obscure media.

Your contention that people are prohibited from processing up to receive a blessing during communion is wrong. The cardinal’s very words underscore that.

Your belief that “if it’s not in the GIRM/RS then is must be an abuse!” is in grave error. You lack the understanding of the authority and reach of such documents – that much has been demonstrated on this thread.

 

[Rickwood]

So, what is wrong with saying the prayers during the Mass you are actually attending and remaining in your pew, in silent contemplation? It’s the same concept, only, it’s live, and not Memorex, and you are there.

Given there is no prohibition by the Church there is nothing wrong with processing up for a blessing during communion. Some might choose to remain in their pew – nothing wrong with that, nor has anyone even hinted there was a problem with that on this thread.

What I am saying is that we live in an age where we feel that if we aren’t included in the activity, then, something is missing. We feel that just because we can’t receive that we should still be in line and at least get something for our efforts, almost like a consolation prize.

Your beliefs might apply to you, but they in no way apply to all. There is no prohibition by the Church there is nothing wrong with processing up for a blessing during communion.

Even 30 years ago, this kind of thing would not have happened. As I said earlier, those who couldn’t come to the altar were encouraged to make a spiritual communion, offering up their pain at not being able to receive Our Lord and asking Him to strengthen them and to prepare them for such time when they could actually receive Him.

It did happen 30 years ago – in my parish – I was there.

 

[maurin]

And by the way, you never answered the question I asked you at least twice.

.

good luck…I’ve asked him a few times now to give support of his statement, and he mocked me twice and ignored me the rest of the time.

It seems as if he might have something to hide.

 

[Rickwood]

good luck…I’ve asked him a few times now to give support of his statement, and he mocked me twice and ignored me the rest of the time.

It seems as if he might have something to hide.

What value did your posting add? All you did was take a personal shot. Very bad form.

What question did you ask? I don’t respond to loaded questions – I ignore them. I have nothing to hide.

Not that it’s any of his business but I might respond to that other fellow if he would stop mischaracterizing my comments about EWTN.

 

[palmas85]

Why do people have local customs? That’s why they are called local customs. If you can always ask the priest for another blessing and it is part of the local custom, then why not do it then?

Hey, I’m just asking why? Like I said you’ll get a blessinh anyway in about ten to fifteen minutes, so why do you need two? I’m not trying to be confrontational, I just don’t understand the concept or the motivation behind it.

 

[palmas85]

All I know is this…In 1989 JP II on a a visit to Sweden gave the blessing to Lutheran Archbishop Werkstrom and Bishop Svenungsson WHILE they were in the communion line.He even spoke about that event in his general audience address on Jan 23,1991.So that’s the end of the story for me.and apparently my priest and bishop agree.It’s the salvation of my soul here and their’s too.It’s not like I’m one of those pro-choice politicians who are actually getting in line and receiving the Host.

As has been posted already, I also read the documents as did my daughter. She in Italian and French and I in Spanish. We too could find no mention of the incidents you alluded to. Perhaps you had the wrong date? While the entire dialogue was on ecumenism the Holy Father made no mention of any specific acts he had done such as blessings in a communion line or anywhere else for that matter.

He did give the standard Apostolic Blessing at the end of the dialogue however, but that was directed at everyone there.