Acceptable Risk to Life?

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MysticMissMisty

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Salvete, omnes!

What is an acceptable risk of life for Catholics?

For example, are “daredevils” such as Nik Wallenda acting in line with Catholic doctrine by risking their lives for the thrill of it/entertainment purposes? (I know Mr. Wallenda is Polish, so I’m also wondering if he himself is Catholic… Common thing in Poland.)

Being a classicist, I’m also thinking of an example from antiquity. In these days, many occupations were much more risky to perform than they are today. Even such occupations as captaining a ship and mining for precious metals held much more risk because of both materials available at the time and management/safety techniques (or the lack thereof) employed. So, back then, would God have approved of such things as sailing of ships? I mean, He likely would have in cases such as when the Apostles sailed to spread the Gospel, but did He approve of sailing ships only for purposes of trade/making money/profit? Or, rather, would God have considered sailing for these uproses alone too great a risk? After all, there was always the risk of both unanticipated storms arising and potentially causing shipwreck as well as such things as the risk of piracy and the potential to loose life in that way. Were such risks back then acceptable to God for merchants sailing the seas for trade purposes alone? I believe that there is passage in one of the “deuterocanonical” texts (which one escapes me now) wherein God’s Providence is cited as providing safe passage for merchant ships which would travel the seas. But, is this passage in any way lending direct, inspired approval to such practices at that time or later?

In more modern times, what about flight? I mean, again, I know that, today, the risk of fatal accidents in flight is very minimal, but, I’m, right now, thinking more about the early development of flight when the task was much riskier to life and limb. If the Wright Brothers, say, were Catholic, would they have been acting rightly in risking their lives for flight, especially since they and others often flew merely for pleasure and eventually merely to get people/goods places faster?

And, finally, what about today? Even thoiugh the risk is low, should a Catholic risk his/her life (small as that risk may be) to, say, go on a cruise ship merely for the purposes of pleasure?

Another more modern example would be that of risky sports such as auto racing or even X-Games kinds of sports. Is participating in such sports a properly Catholic thing to do given the risk to life involved?

Basic question in all of this: What is an acceptable risk of life to a Catholic? Can one risk one’s life merely to seek pleasure/improve one’s life? Are there any limits on this? If so, are these limits probability-based? If probability is the determining factor, what are we to say of the ancient examples above like those of ancient seafaring? And, of the more modern examples such as the development of flight? And, finally, of very modern curising? And, perhaps the most extreme example, what of the “daredevils” such as Nik Wallenda? In this latter case, would Catholic teaching even permit him to risk his life for the “thrill” alone, or for the “entertainment value”? (Please note that, in all these cases, I am specifically speaking of risk to life–the most extreme risk–not any lesser risk such as injury. That could very well be a subject for another thread.)

I might also cite the early and modern space programs. Especially in the early days, going into space was obviously much more risky than it is today and many accidents occurred as a result. Many Catholics cite the beauty of space and the thankfulness we have for God’s wonderful universe that results from our exploration of it as sufficient to counter any possible risk to life which may result from our exploring space. Is death truly an acceptable risk for going into space, for the purpose of exploring God’s Creation, for the joy of it, for its benefits to those on Earth, for any reason whatever?

Consider that we now rely so heavily both on air and sea transport, since the early risk was so great in both of their development, is it even right, technically, to take part in these things in modern times, since we are reaping the benefits of those who may have risked their lives too much, if this is, in fact, contrary to Catholic teaching?

Let us not get distracted too much with any one of these examples. I am interested in hearing your thoughts (and, indeed, any Church teaching, infallible or otherwise) regarding all of these scenarios. As a person who specializes particularly in ancient civilizations, I myself am as interested in your/the Church’s take on the ancient examples as I am the modern.
 
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Similarly to my last point above, if God did not approve of the risk to life inherent in seafaring in the ancient world, would Christians have still been permitted to partake in things that came over the sea to them with proper thanksgiving?

(Forgot to add this question above in the appropriate section on shipbuilding/seafaring.)
 
We are not expected to avoid all risk to bodily life.

The great adventure of human life ends with rolled-back eyes, in any case.

It is not a sin to go to sea. It is not a sin to take to the air, even in an experimental aircraft. It is not a sin to climb in the Himalayas.

Risk to life only becomes sinful when a) connected with something that is itself sinful, like taking street drugs; b) when we are responsible for another’s wellbeing, ie, having children who would suffer from our unnecessary death; or c) when we endanger the life or wellbeing of others, ie via reckless driving.

IIUC.

ICXC NIKA
 
We could all stay in bed and run no risks at all 🙂

But seriously, I don’t think God minds, as long as the risks are reasonable, iyswim. For instance, Wallenda trained for many years to do what he does. He didn’t start way up high, bit about 6 inches off the ground. Sailors didn’t sail because they might get shipwrecked, but as a means to other things; things which were not sinful. Again, sailors too were reasonable: they didn’t go out when the weather was going to turn bad.

OTOH, God doesn’t want us to be stupid, like doing things without training or safety features which exist.
 
Sea, air, space travel not sinful.

The US sent men into space beginning in 1961. The only injuries and fatalities in flight occurred with the space shuttle disasters in 1986 and 2003. We could argue that space travel is riskier now than it was earlier.
 
Keep it in perspective. Some things are worse than death.
“Whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.”
 
Risk to life only becomes sinful when a) connected with something that is itself sinful, like taking street drugs; b) when we are responsible for another’s wellbeing, ie, having children who would suffer from our unnecessary death; or c) when we endanger the life or wellbeing of others, ie via reckless driving.

IIUC.

ICXC NIKA
Just wondering, is this official teaching of any kind or just personal opinion? (Totally not trying to be mean. Honestly, genuinely curious as I really don’t know.)

I think I heard somewhere that the Church, in some way, shape or form frowns on at least certain risk-to-life issues.
 
But seriously, I don’t think God minds, as long as the risks are reasonable, iyswim. For instance, Wallenda trained for many years to do what he does. He didn’t start way up high, bit about 6 inches off the ground. Sailors didn’t sail because they might get shipwrecked, but as a means to other things; things which were not sinful. Again, sailors too were reasonable: they didn’t go out when the weather was going to turn bad.
That sounds perfectly reasonable to me, though, I’m wondering if simple trade in merchandise is ever worth any risk to life, especially something as great as, certainly in antiquity, dying in a shipwreck in a storm at sea. How would we responde to something like this? Is the issue perhaps not any difference in value of the two at all, but, rather, of personal concern for one’s life? In other words, as you say, as long as you value your own life and the lives of others enough to take necessary precautions, pretty much no matter what you’re doing, God approves of what you are doing, both in terms of the activity and in terms of the precautions taken? So, all this has to do with the value you place on life, not on the activities involving risk themselves? However, one could argue that, if you truly value your life, you wouldn’t be doing the kinds of things I mentioned above that would risk it in the first place. How do we resolve all this? Again, opinions? Any official Church teaching on this or that at least touches to a relevant degree on it?
 
When thinking of the ancient sailing example, I was just thinking about the disciples fishing on the water when that storm came up.

Indeed, Christ Himself seemed not only to approve of this method but also to engage in it Himself. At the very least, He never spoke out against it and this could be interpreted as tacit(?) approval. I mean, perhaps one could also argue that, if this was a concern for Him, He would’ve asked them to engage in safer methods of fishing or even disallowed fish for food on the whole. However, one could also argue that the disciples were under some special protective grace so that they would not be harmed by a storm even if it were to arise.

Still, fishing supplies a need for nutrition. Seafaring for goods often involves things gotten merely fore enjoyment and not so much for necessity…

Responses to all this as well?
 
Just wondering, is this official teaching of any kind or just personal opinion? (Totally not trying to be mean. Honestly, genuinely curious as I really don’t know.)

I think I heard somewhere that the Church, in some way, shape or form frowns on at least certain risk-to-life issues.
I will ask a knowledgeable priest today.

But, seriously, the Church has never made dangerous activity per se a sin. Nothing is more dangerous than soldiering, yet the Church admires soldiers. Etc.

ICXC NIKA
 
I will ask a knowledgeable priest today.

But, seriously, the Church has never made dangerous activity per se a sin. Nothing is more dangerous than soldiering, yet the Church admires soldiers. Etc.

ICXC NIKA
I was seriously going to say, “Aww, wow, thanks!” to the first one…! :o

As far as soldiering, one of the goals of this is to protect life, but, true, it is also used to protect livelihood/property/land. But, perhaps, in that case, the protection of life is the main reason soldiering is allowed…?

In this thread, I’m mainly addressing the issue of an apparently great difference in inherent value between life and perhaps less necessary goods, whether material or otherwise.
 
There is no real avoidance of danger. Even lying in bed entails the risk of life-ending blood clots.

Sure, there are dangers in going to sea. But what livelihood is without danger, particularly in our LORD’s day? Farming the land had its dangers (it is still, in modern NA, considered a dangerous profession). Merchants got robbed and often murdered. People died of minor skin infections which occurred doing any kind of work. Etc.

Going to sea was arguably less dangerous than some of the alternatives.

ICXC NIKA
 
That sounds perfectly reasonable to me, though, I’m wondering if simple trade in merchandise is ever worth any risk to life, especially something as great as, certainly in antiquity, dying in a shipwreck in a storm at sea. How would we responde to something like this? Is the issue perhaps not any difference in value of the two at all, but, rather, of personal concern for one’s life? In other words, as you say, as long as you value your own life and the lives of others enough to take necessary precautions, pretty much no matter what you’re doing, God approves of what you are doing, both in terms of the activity and in terms of the precautions taken? So, all this has to do with the value you place on life, not on the activities involving risk themselves? However, one could argue that, if you truly value your life, you wouldn’t be doing the kinds of things I mentioned above that would risk it in the first place. How do we resolve all this? Again, opinions? Any official Church teaching on this or that at least touches to a relevant degree on it?
Well, it is necessary to understand that sea-faring was conducted as safely as possible, and life on land wasn’t all that much safer! You could get what is now a minor sickness but which, back then, killed many people. There are bandits, injuries, etc. Life itself was risky, even if spent in bed, as GEddie pointed out 🙂

We are to be *brave, *but not *reckless. *Wallenda can go on a tightrope 40 feet up–for me to do that would be reckless 😉
 
Oh, and this is an area of prudential judgement: the issue turns so much on aspects of each situation that the Church gives only general guidelines, not specific rulings. The Church expects me to realize I should not walk a tightrope 40 feet above ground 🙂
 
Just wondering, is this official teaching of any kind or just personal opinion?..
The Catechism has this:
Respect for health
**
2288** Life and physical health are precious gifts entrusted to us by God. We must take reasonable care of them, taking into account the needs of others and the common good.
Concern for the health of its citizens requires that society help in the attainment of living-conditions that allow them to grow and reach maturity: food and clothing, housing, health care, basic education, employment, and social assistance.
2289 If morality requires respect for the life of the body, it does not make it an absolute value. It rejects a neo-pagan notion that tends to promote the cult of the body, to sacrifice everything for its sake, to idolize physical perfection and success at sports. By its selective preference of the strong over the weak, such a conception can lead to the perversion of human relationships.
2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.
2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.
 
You guys both make good points, but, I guess my question is whether God would’ve considered the ancient risks of sailing justifiable when men could very often simply have stayed at home, as it were, to acquire all their necessities and even luxury goods that were available where they were. Surely they didn’t need to go sailing to do this. With that in mind, would GOd have considered the risks to life inherent in sailing justifiable, even if sufficient precautions were taken on voyages?
 
The Catechism has this:
This even further problematizes the issue.

The “common good” cited at 2288 would seem to justify the acquisition of goods from other lands, both now and in antiquity.

Also, does 2290, then, prohibit auto racing?

Any thoughts?

Hmm, perhaps I should not be lazy and go back and look at the Latin here. “To whom much is given” and all that… 🙂
 
You guys both make good points, but, I guess my question is whether God would’ve considered the ancient risks of sailing justifiable when men could very often simply have stayed at home, as it were, to acquire all their necessities and even luxury goods that were available where they were. Surely they didn’t need to go sailing to do this. With that in mind, would GOd have considered the risks to life inherent in sailing justifiable, even if sufficient precautions were taken on voyages?
If we had no close friends or living relatives we would be more justified in risking our life, particularly if it is not just for pleasure or excitement but for benefiting humanity in some way - such as being a volunteer to test a drug to cure cancer. If we have dependants our first duty is obviously to them and the very least we can do is to ask their opinion. Exploring the world has led to discoveries that have enriched our lives.
 
You guys both make good points, but, I guess my question is whether God would’ve considered the ancient risks of sailing justifiable when men could very often simply have stayed at home, as it were, to acquire all their necessities and even luxury goods that were available where they were. Surely they didn’t need to go sailing to do this. With that in mind, would GOd have considered the risks to life inherent in sailing justifiable, even if sufficient precautions were taken on voyages?
Is there a particular reason why you focus on sailing?

The Bible, remember, was given to the Jews. Biblical Jews were not a seagoing nation. In fact, they feared to live along the sea, never mind traveling across it. In Biblical times, important cities were all inland.

Yet though they avoided the sea, life was not safe. The merchant of Jericho was beaten and left for dead. People were killed by wild animals while walking on land. One could get a sudden illness and die (Lazarus) or die while out in the field (possibly by heat stroke?) (the widow’s son in Elisha’s times), or die while sleeping (the man with the silos in our LORD’s parable).

Life was uncertain at all times then, as it is now.

For those who did take to the sea, the potential reward surpassed the risk of death, to their mind, probably more than the risk/reward in farming, etc.

ICXC NIKA
 
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