Accepting Christ as Lord and Savior

[Linkowski]

What I have found is a lot of Catholics believe about Jesus and what He did…but they are so busy performing rituals/sacraments and trying to “make it” that they do not understand the central message of Christianity in a personal way. By releasing all of their effort, realizing their depravity and falling face first on the floor at the knees of our Great God and submitting to His righteousness. They do not understand that we are saved by grace and that salvation has nothing to do with our own efforts (that is what “cooperation” is as well - effort). It is one thing to believe about Jesus and recite a creed - but it another thing to give your all for Christ as Lord and trusting in His great sacrifice for salvation.

I was born again by the water of the Word of God and by the Spirit…by the power of the gospel.

1 Peter 1:23 KJV 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

I was foreknown, predestined, called, justified, and will be glorified…

Romans 8:30 KJV 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

I am washed, sanctified…

1 Corinthians 6:11 KJV 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

John 13:10 KJV 10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

Perfected forever…

Hebrews 10:14 KJV 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

All at the time that I believed - which in and of itself was the gift of God by grace…

Acts 18:27 KJV 27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

Nobody in the Bible ever chose Christ…we are chosen of Him…

John 6:44 KJV 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:37 KJV 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Trusting Christ as Lord and Savior is all the work of God and for that I am so grateful.

 

[Truthstalker]

What I have found is a lot of Catholics believe about Jesus and what He did…but they are so busy performing rituals/sacraments and trying to “make it” that they do not understand the central message of Christianity in a personal way. By releasing all of their effort, realizing their depravity and falling face first on the floor at the knees of our Great God and submitting to His righteousness. They do not understand that we are saved by grace and that salvation has nothing to do with our own efforts (that is what “cooperation” is as well - effort). It is one thing to believe about Jesus and recite a creed - but it another thing to give your all for Christ as Lord and trusting in His great sacrifice for salvation.

What a collection of logical errors.
vague generalization. Did you take a poll? If they disagree with you, does that mean they do not understand? Some Catholics may go through the motions, but that does not invalidate Catholicism, just as someone sitting in a car seat does not invalidate cars.

I was born again by the water of the Word of God and by the Spirit…by the power of the gospel.

In Catholic baptism?

…(post was too long)

Trusting Christ as Lord and Savior is all the work of God and for that I am so grateful.

Mr 8:15 And he cautioned them, saying, “Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of Herod.”

Mr 13:5 And Jesus began to say to them, "Take heed that no one leads you astray.

Mr 13:33 Take heed, watch; for you do not know when the time will come.

Lu 8:18 Take heed then how you hear; for to him who has will more be given, and from him who has not, even what he thinks that he has will be taken away."

Lu 21:8 And he said, "Take heed that you are not led astray; for many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he!’ and, ‘The time is at hand!’ Do not go after them.

Lu 21:34 "But take heed to yourselves lest your hearts be weighed down with dissipation and drunkenness and cares of this life, and that day come upon you suddenly like a snare;

Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

1Co 10:12 Therefore let any one who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.

Ga 5:15 But if you bite and devour one another take heed that you are not consumed by one another.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

1Ti 4:16 Take heed to yourself and to your teaching; hold to that, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Hebrews 3:12
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
1 ¶ Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

Link, beware of the sin of presumption.

 

[Linkowski]

Mr 8:15 And he cautioned them, saying, “Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of Herod.”

Mr 13:5 And Jesus began to say to them, "Take heed that no one leads you astray.

Mr 13:33 Take heed, watch; for you do not know when the time will come.

Lu 8:18 Take heed then how you hear; for to him who has will more be given, and from him who has not, even what he thinks that he has will be taken away."

Lu 21:8 And he said, "Take heed that you are not led astray; for many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he!’ and, ‘The time is at hand!’ Do not go after them.

Lu 21:34 "But take heed to yourselves lest your hearts be weighed down with dissipation and drunkenness and cares of this life, and that day come upon you suddenly like a snare;

Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

1Co 10:12 Therefore let any one who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.

Ga 5:15 But if you bite and devour one another take heed that you are not consumed by one another.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

1Ti 4:16 Take heed to yourself and to your teaching; hold to that, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Hebrews 3:12
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
1 ¶ Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

Link, beware of the sin of presumption.

I am fully aware - thanks…

The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom…We must have a healthy fear of God…you all seem to use these scriptures to rain on the parade of those that are glorying in their salvation.

Jeremiah 32:40 KJV 40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

God uses these examples and scriptures for just that.

Thanks again.

 

[Randy_Carson]

With over a thousand posts here on CA, I can see you have experience with posting.

There is no responsibility whatsoever that respondents quote the entire OP to comment on part.

That is silly, nor will I start that practice now.

Maybe you should of thought of that before you posted.

I made no “sport” of the poster. Nonsense.

Apology accepted.

As you can tell by the responses, I’m not the only one who picked up on your “unfortunate” truncation.

 

[Randy_Carson]

What I have found is a lot of Catholics believe about Jesus and what He did…but they are so busy performing rituals/sacraments and trying to “make it” that they do not understand the central message of Christianity in a personal way. By releasing all of their effort, realizing their depravity and falling face first on the floor at the knees of our Great God and submitting to His righteousness. They do not understand that we are saved by grace and that salvation has nothing to do with our own efforts (that is what “cooperation” is as well - effort). It is one thing to believe about Jesus and recite a creed - but it another thing to give your all for Christ as Lord and trusting in His great sacrifice for salvation.

Link-

Two points. First, please keep in mind that a bunch of us here are converts and reverts. We took a long hard look at Protestantism and justification by faith and once saved always saved, etc. and still made the decision to return to the True Church and Gospel of Jesus Christ. I know, you can’t fathom that, but there it is.

I’ll say it again: lots of us have KNOWINGLY and CONSCIOUSLY REJECTED the false traditions of Protestant men.

Second, I suspect that I have known far more Catholics than you have. I have never known any who lived their lives according to the description you have given. Perhaps you’re reading into their situation what you, an evangelical, expect to see?

 

[StevenFrancis]

What I have found is a lot of Catholics believe about Jesus and what He did…but they are so busy performing rituals/sacraments and trying to “make it” that they do not understand the central message of Christianity in a personal way. By releasing all of their effort, realizing their depravity and falling face first on the floor at the knees of our Great God and submitting to His righteousness. They do not understand that we are saved by grace and that salvation has nothing to do with our own efforts (that is what “cooperation” is as well - effort). It is one thing to believe about Jesus and recite a creed - but it another thing to give your all for Christ as Lord and trusting in His great sacrifice for salvation.
.

Do you belong to particular faith group? Is this what is really out there being believed about Catholicism? This is very disturbing to me. I have been on a deep spiritual search and journey my entire life. I’ll be 50 next month. It was only last year that I was brought into full communion with the Catholic Church. I’d been Buddhist for 20 years prior to that, and a 4 square Baptist before that. My baptism was in the Baptist faith, and I was “Born Again”. But it wasn’t until I discovered the Liturgy, and the sacramental life of the Church that I felt the rich and full relationship with Jesus Christ that I now feel. Look, if you’re experiencing all there is to experience in Christ to your way of thinking, then peace be with you. To make a wholesale judgement of the worship of the body of Christ that is the Catholic Faith, and assume that they don’t love our Lord and Savior every bit as much as you do is not only ill informed, but is perhaps even unsafe spiritually. Go where Christ leads you, but don’t just dismiss the glorious blessings of his sacraments, the rich traditions passed on through his Apostles, and complete history of the real presence of the Lamb of God, that you also worship, just out of hand. This is not a skillful or charitable way of thought or action. We are assured by Christ that this church will withstand anything unto the end of time, and I for one am believing it with all my heart and soul. I’m devoting the rest of my days to preserving and teaching about it to anyone who will listen.

Peace be with you, and please let your heart be open to the fullness of Christianity, and ALL that Christ intends for us. It is truly a beautiful thing.

Peace,

Steven

 

[Georgea]

I went tonight to speak with our priest and presented the statement of faith to him. He had some good points that have me thinking perhaps this co-op isn’t for my family. One thing he pointed out was that, b/c Catholic and Protestant faiths have many doctrinal differences, a common statement of faith would “water down” my (and their) beliefs. It would be incomplete in that it would not state all that I believe as a Catholic.

The Catholic Church is so rich and so complete and he asked if I really want to sign something so generic and am I being true to myself and my faith if I sign it. He was way more eloquent in saying this than I am, but the basic point was that do I want to be part of something in which I need to say “these are the beliefs I will bring with me to co-op, and the rest will stay home b/c everyone doesn’t share them and they are not really allowed.”

Jim, I liked your quote from Pope John XXIII and Pope Paul II that “that which seperates us is far less than that which unites us.” It just seems like “that which separates” is pretty big and really difficult to overcome - and I really wish it wasn’t that way.

 

[Georgea]

Georgea, I think these posts, also by “whosebob”, give the Catholic understanding;

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=1690415#post1690415

Frances,

Thanks again for the link. I started going through the posts and there is just so much good stuff in it that I need to look at it when I have some more time. I’ll have to look for more posts by whosebob. He seems very well informed!

God bless ,
Georgea

 

[rtconstant]

The problem with the use of the Nicene Creed or the Apostles Creed (as Catholics know it) is the use of catholic in the creed. While it is a lower case catholic instead of Catholic, it could still be misinterpreted by those who aren’t well versed with the meaning of Catholic.
Also, the Nicene mentions the communion of Saints, a belief that is unique to the CC, and not usually recognized by many Protestants (if I am wrong on that, let me know!)

No the Communion of Saints isn’t unique to Catholicism. All of the Easthern Churches and the Anglicans (Protestant) hold to this as well. I could be wrong but I think the Lutherans also believe in the Communion of Saints. Methodists may as well I’m not sure, they’re interesting in that while they’re evangelical and “Low Church” they tend to think a lot like “High Church” Christians. Anyway, it would actually be a small percentage of Christians who don’t believe in it.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

No the Communion of Saints isn’t unique to Catholicism. All of the Easthern Churches and the Anglicans (Protestant) hold to this as well.

Thank you for correcting me!

 

[Atemi]

Only to the extent that she wanted further clarification about what the Church’s stance is on people who have never heard of Christ. She was not discounting the efficacy of accepting Christ as Savior.

I did not say she was discounting the efficacy of accepting Christ.

Perhaps you were in a hurry and did not read her entire post, and thus, were confused about her intent.

If only.

I wish that was the case, but unfortunately it’s not.

I read the whole thing multiple times. It did not get any better.

No need to be saddened. Catholics are absolutely crazy about Jesus. He is everything to us, and all that we have comes from Him.

That is not what this thread is revealing. I am being attacked for not understanding why the poster had problems with the last part of the statement (the part about our Lord) and not the first two parts of the statement.

The fact that it is not bothersome to many Catholics here is demonstrative.

 

[Atemi]

One thing he pointed out was that, b/c Catholic and Protestant faiths have many doctrinal differences, a common statement of faith would “water down” my (and their) beliefs. It would be incomplete in that it would not state all that I believe as a Catholic.

I didn’t think of this before because the Christian faith is designed to be so uniting among those who call Christ Lord. But now that I think about it, as a Catholic there is no meeting of hearts and minds outside of Roman Catholicism.

As a Catholic, you would have to ask that the entire Catechism (at least) be added to the joint statement of faith…or you can’t have anything to do with it.

Even gathering around the ancient Creeds is far less than a Catholic today can accept. It is funny that those in the early church did not feel the same way, or else why would they have specifically formulated the Creeds as they did?

That is very unfortunate. Christ didn’t intend fellowship among His people to be this way…

 

[trogiah]

I went tonight to speak with our priest and presented the statement of faith to him. He had some good points that have me thinking perhaps this co-op isn’t for my family. One thing he pointed out was that, b/c Catholic and Protestant faiths have many doctrinal differences, a common statement of faith would “water down” my (and their) beliefs. It would be incomplete in that it would not state all that I believe as a Catholic.

The Catholic Church is so rich and so complete and he asked if I really want to sign something so generic and am I being true to myself and my faith if I sign it. He was way more eloquent in saying this than I am, but the basic point was that do I want to be part of something in which I need to say “these are the beliefs I will bring with me to co-op, and the rest will stay home b/c everyone doesn’t share them and they are not really allowed.”

Jim, I liked your quote from Pope John XXIII and Pope Paul II that “that which seperates us is far less than that which unites us.” It just seems like “that which separates” is pretty big and really difficult to overcome - and I really wish it wasn’t that way.

Nothing in what you have written so far gives me a clear idea of your situation as far as the options you have for your children so some of what I am writing may be off base but I thought I would ask a couple of questions and offer a couple of thoughts,

Is there a Catholic school option that is available to you? What are the options for your children if they do not go to this school?

Even if the only thing you could agree on was the commandment to “treat others as you would have them treat you”, your children could do much worse. Focusing on a the bare essentials may seem like “watering down” to some but a strong focus on basic moral principles is never a bad thing. You could still teach your children an appreciation for the sacraments and the liturgy of the church. If you have a school where you could do this then by all means send your children there but I get the impression that if such an option were available to you, you would already have taken it.

I don’t think that you or any other Catholic should feel like you have to settle all disputes between Christian denominations before you let your children associate with “their” children. Your signing of an agreement shouldn’t be taken by you, the director of the school, or your parish priest to be a total faith committment of mind and soul on your part to the school’s philosophy. It is simply a decision to cooperate in the situation God has placed you in.

Take a closer look at what seperates you from the other members of the coop and what unites you. (I have little idea what you are facing so only you can really decide which is greater in your situation) But if you don’t have a better option for your children, then there is nothing wrong with accepting the best of imperfect options.

Just my opinion.
Good luck

Jim

 

[Like]

That is very unfortunate. **Christ didn’t intend fellowship among His people to be this way…​

You are so right, Christ did NOT intend for His ONE TRUE CHURCH to be protested against!
God bless you for seeing this!
**

 

[JLSacred]

The problem with the statement of faith is that it’s couched in Evangelical catch phrases and semantics. It’s not written in neutral language. It is a statement of faith that encapsulates Evangelical theology in a nutshell.

The Evangelical idea of theological unity means to boil down the Christian experience to “Accept Jesus as you Personal Lord and Savior”. That is a very 20th century Evangelical statement that implies a one time experience of salvation that is promoted by Evangelical Christians.

 

[Atemi]

The problem with the statement of faith is that it’s couched in Evangelical catch phrases and semantics. It’s not written in neutral language. It is a statement of faith that encapsulates Evangelical theology in a nutshell.

The Evangelical idea of theological unity means to boil down the Christian experience to “Accept Jesus as you Personal Lord and Savior”. That is a very 20th century Evangelical statement that implies a one time experience of salvation that is promoted by Evangelical Christians.

LOL…or not so lol.

It is amazing that any Christian, even in this day and age, can say they cannot agree with repenting, turning from sin, and calling on Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. They give such crazy ideas as those a label that one should flee from and disdain.

Who woulda thunk?

Wowzers.

That’s all that can be said.

 

[Georgea]

It is amazing that any Christian, even in this day and age, can say they cannot agree with repenting, turning from sin, and calling on Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior…

For the record, I have repented, turned away from sin and accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior.

 

[Linkowski]

Link-

Two points. First, please keep in mind that a bunch of us here are converts and reverts. We took a long hard look at Protestantism and justification by faith and once saved always saved, etc. and still made the decision to return to the True Church and Gospel of Jesus Christ. I know, you can’t fathom that, but there it is.

I’ll say it again: lots of us have KNOWINGLY and CONSCIOUSLY REJECTED the false traditions of Protestant men.

Second, I suspect that I have known far more Catholics than you have. I have never known any who lived their lives according to the description you have given. Perhaps you’re reading into their situation what you, an evangelical, expect to see?

If you spent any time at all going out and doing door to door evangelism, you would find people who were basing their salvation on their works with no mention of Christ and His work on the cross. Many of them (including myself) are shocked when you show them that it is all of faith - works are an ultimate and inevitable result of faith because of the change God makes in the life of the elect and we will be judged on the entire package…but, they honestly do not understand the gospel - what Christ really accomplished on the cross and they do not understand it in a personal way - they are just distant facts clouded by sacraments/rituals that seem to take a higher priorty. I cam to faith in one “sacrament”…the hearing of the word of God…

Romans 10:14-17 KJV 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

1 Peter 1:23 KJV 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The elect will be the only one’s that will be saved - and those are people that have placed their faith in Christ as Lord and Savior and were changed forever when they repented form sin and God gave them faith by grace (Act 18:27), he gave them the Holy Spirit (Act 10:43-44, Gal 3:2), washed them, sanctified them, justified them, etc…And the elect will not fall away.

Matthew 24:24 KJV 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

 

[Mannyfit75]

If you spent any time at all going out and doing door to door evangelism, you would find people who were basing their salvation on their works with no mention of Christ and His work on the cross. Many of them (including myself) are shocked when you show them that it is all of faith - works are an ultimate and inevitable result of faith because of the change God makes in the life of the elect and we will be judged on the entire package…but, they honestly do not understand the gospel - what Christ really accomplished on the cross and they do not understand it in a personal way - they are just distant facts clouded by sacraments/rituals that seem to take a higher priorty. I cam to faith in one “sacrament”…the hearing of the word of God…

Link,

You assumed that the Catholic Church teaches false doctrines? I base this because you quote about false Christs, and deceivers?

You are very wrong to judge the Catholic Church’s teachings in her authority to teach moral and faith issue as false.

If you claim the CC to be false then consider this.

1. Council of Nicea in 325 A.D defined the Trinity that God is Three Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
2. The Church condemned the heresy of Arianism and Nectorianism which challenge the divinity of Jesus Christ in the Council of Nicea in 325 (Arianism) and Council of Ephesus 400s AD).
3. The Council of Rome, Hippo and Carthage declared all 27 NT as inspired Word of God and worthy use for liturgy.

In these times, the Church was One and it was Catholic.

Second if you truly profess we are mislead then consider these questions.

1. The Catholic Church teaches abortion, fornication, homosexuality, euthanasia, contraception, fetus stem cell research, death penalty, pornography, prostitution, as grave sins against God.

Are these teachings false doctrine? These teachings are necessary in order to preserve the purity of the faithful, so and to lead us into a more holy life.

This forum like Randy said is largely Catholic reverts, and converts. They have seen the errors of Protestantism. Protestantism has been around since the days of Martin Luther, and the Catholic Church has been around for 2,000 years.

It is founded by Jesus Christ, he build his Church upon Peter, whom he grafted unto himself and this Church is the Catholic Church.

This Church has given us the the Bible both OT and NT, protected it from heresies of Gnosticism, Arianism, Nectorianism, Sabellanism, etc.

I don’t believe Jesus Christ would abandon His Bride the Church. How dare you call the Bride of Christ a deceiver! Who gave you authority to preached that Jesus’ Bride is misleading his believers?

You only live here on Earth for a short while compared to the Church which have spread the Gospel since the time of the Apostles.

 

[StevenFrancis]

Link,

You assumed that the Catholic Church teaches false doctrines? I base this because you quote about false Christs, and deceivers?

You are very wrong to judge the Catholic Church’s teachings in her authority to teach moral and faith issue as false.

If you claim the CC to be false then consider this.

1. Council of Nicea in 325 A.D defined the Trinity that God is Three Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
2. The Church condemned the heresy of Arianism and Nectorianism which challenge the divinity of Jesus Christ in the Council of Nicea in 325 (Arianism) and Council of Ephesus 400s AD).
3. The Council of Rome, Hippo and Carthage declared all 27 NT as inspired Word of God and worthy use for liturgy.

In these times, the Church was One and it was Catholic.

Second if you truly profess we are mislead then consider these questions.

1. The Catholic Church teaches abortion, fornication, homosexuality, euthanasia, contraception, fetus stem cell research, death penalty, pornography, prostitution, as grave sins against God.

Are these teachings false doctrine? These teachings are necessary in order to preserve the purity of the faithful, so and to lead us into a more holy life.

This forum like Randy said is largely Catholic reverts, and converts. They have seen the errors of Protestantism. Protestantism has been around since the days of Martin Luther, and the Catholic Church has been around for 2,000 years.

It is founded by Jesus Christ, he build his Church upon Peter, whom he grafted unto himself and this Church is the Catholic Church.

This Church has given us the the Bible both OT and NT, protected it from heresies of Gnosticism, Arianism, Nectorianism, Sabellanism, etc.

I don’t believe Jesus Christ would abandon His Bride the Church. How dare you call the Bride of Christ a deceiver! Who gave you authority to preached that Jesus’ Bride is misleading his believers?

You only live here on Earth for a short while compared to the Church which have spread the Gospel since the time of the Apostles.

Amen. Thank you. This is what I was trying to say, many posts back.

Peace be with you,

Steven