accepting Christ as personal Lord and Savior: I don't get it

[Jim_Dandy]

Wow.

I am off this thread.

Bye.

That did not apply to all Protestants – only those whose teachings I described.

Jim Dandy

 

[Matthew_P_Muehl]

No, I am saying that it is through Baptism that we are born again. That’s what the first Christians believed, and that’s what the New Testament says.

Jim Dandy

Since Southern Baptist are Bible only, How do they not see this?

Matthew

 

[Matthew_P_Muehl]

Those of us us who grew up being taught that the Church is the W of Babylon and that the Pope is the Antichrist and that Catholics worship Mary and all the other lies about the Catholic Church that are still being taught in (some) Protestant communities to this day know that (some) Protestants may want to follow Jesus but they don’t follow His commandments. They regularly bear false witness and certainly do not love their Catholic neighbors. Been there, done that.

Jim Dandy

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. Sure looks like the 9th commandment was over looked in their bible studies!
Sure enjoy reading your posts J.D.

Matthew

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Since Southern Baptist are Bible only, How do they not see this?

Matthew

Blinders. Mindset. They see the words through their own lens. They see what they want to see. A great deal of the Bible is just ignored. They have their favorite verses that they believe “prove” that their interpretation of the Bible is the correct one. In all my Baptist years, I never heard a sermon on the sixth chapter of John, for example. But I heard many, many on John 3:16. Baptist kids memorize their denomination’s “proof texts.”

There was never a reference to the beliefs of the first Christians, who were taught doctrine from the Apostles’ own lips. They seem to think Christian history began in the 16th century, It’s every person and his or her (incomplete) Bible. :whacky:

Jim Dandy

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Sure enjoy reading your posts J.D.

Matthew

Much obliged, Matthew!:tiphat:

 

[graceandglory]

Roman 10:13 Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved; (could that mean accepting Christ etc.

Behold I stand at the door and knok, if anyone open the door I will come into him. (when someone knoks on your door do you not invite them in)

Hello ex-Catholic Calvinist drywall.

I am puzzled by your “could that mean?” comment.

Whenever I go to Mass, I call on the name of the Lord.

The Scripture also says that unless we are born of water and the spirit we will not be saved.
I was baptized/born of the water as a babe. I believe that my baptism was efficaceous, it brought be saving grace. When I go to Mass, I am constantly calling on the Lord Jesus when I exclaim, “Lord, have mercy,” “Christ, have mercy!” I bow my head in reverence when I hear the name of Jesus. Whenever I receive Jesus’s true body and blood in the Eucharist, I am not just figuratively “opening the door” but literally opening my mouth to receive Jesus to come into my body, where he will sup with me and I with Him.

All of us are to have a personal encounter with Christ. As we grow to know him more we become more intimate with him. That encounter with Christ is not a one time “Accept Him as Lord” but an ongoing conversion throughout our whole lifetime.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Quick Answers
Baptism: Sinner’s Prayer is All Wet (start here)
The Church, Sacraments, and Salvation
Faith Alone? The Abraham/Bin Laden Dilemma
Wilted TULIP: No Love for Calvinism

 

[Brywan]

I think you’re looking for a fight. May I respectfully suggest that you ask your questions with less antagonism?

There are a lot of Protestant Christians who deeply love the Lord Jesus and have followed Him for years after “asking Him into their heart to be their personal Savior.” Most of these Christians have been baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, which, according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the Bible, makes them Christians.

Many Protestant Christians are martyred for their faith on the mission field. And among those who are not martyred, many live exemplary lives, practicing charitable love and peace, and doing much good in the Name of Christ.

Do you know any Protestant Christians like this? Can you look these good Protestant Christians in the face and challenge their claim to be Christians, even though our own Catechism tells us that they ARE indeed Christians?

Of course you can’t. You know that they are Christians. It’s their theology that you are questioning. And I don’t blame you for trying to make Protestants think about what they’re praying and teaching. I agree that no where in the Bible does it say to “Ask Jesus into your heart to be your personal Savior.” It does seem hypocritical to claim that the Bible is the source of all their teachings, and at the same time, use a phrase that isn’t even in the Bible.

But you must listen to what the Protestant is asking and try not to analyze it so much. **What the Protestant is saying is that they love Jesus and want to follow Him and Him alone. **

That’s exactly what Catholics say when they are confirmed–they promise to renounce all others and follow Jesus. And even after confirmation, Catholics make decisions to renew their commitment to Jesus.

That’s what it means to be a Christian–to follow Jesus Christ.

The word “personal” is not the same meaning as a “personal” computer or a “personal banker”, in which the object is ours alone and not shared.

What the Protestant is saying is that they want to know Jesus in a deep, personal way, not just in an “intellectual” way, or in a mechanical, ritualistic way. They want the faith that their parents passed on to them to be THEIR faith, too.

They want to be “friends” (not Facebook friends!) with the Lord Jesus. That’s what Jesus told us in John 15–“You are My friends if you do what I command you.”

If Protestants are not using the words correctly in their prayer of submission to the Lord Jesus, does it matter? They do not have Holy Mother Church to teach them. They are “orphans” or “street waifs,” and they have to do the best they can without a mother (at least one that they are aware of) to articulate to the Lord of the Universe their desire for Him and Him alone. Romans 8: 26 says that the Spirit helps us in our weakness, for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words."

I believe that the Blessed Mother also prays constantly for Protestants and is the “channel” by which many of them do eventually come into the Catholic Church.

There are Catholics who have followed all the formulas of the Church and never miss a Mass, but they do not live day to day as Christians should and never bear witness to the Gospel.

And there are Protestants who “asked Jesus into their heart to be their personal Savior,” and they live, think, and breathe Jesus every moment of every day and bear witness of Him to all they meet.

Which one will be saved?

I think both will, but I think one will spend more time in purgatory than the other. Remember that God demands much from one who has much. The Catholic has all the splendors of Christ’s Church, including the Holy Scriptures, Sacred Tradition, the Magisterium including all the clergy headed by the apostles themselves. Meanwhile, the Protestant has a Bible, and somehow has to make do with just that.

Great post!

 

[guanophore]

Hey I just don’t get this Christian concept of “accepting Christ as your personal Lord and Savior.”

First and foremost, why “personal Lord”? Is it not that Christ is the Savior of all? Why "have Jesus for yourself’? That sounds to me like “I have my own Jesus.” Won’t you prefer sharing Christ to others?

I have a problem with “who’s really got the invitation.” “The four spiritual laws” booklet interprets Revelation 3:20 as "Receiving Christ involves turning to God from self ( I have no problem with that part) and trusting Christ to come into our lives to forgive our sins and to make us the kind of people He wants us to be.

The underlined part is where my problem is. I mean, why would Christ have to come into my life? He’s not lost, He’s just there! watching my every movement, happy when I try to fight the devil, but sad when I fall. It’s just that, in times of despair, I don’t see Him. He’s just there. All I need to do is “come back” to Him. Not Him going back to me (or to you). He’s the one making the invitation, not us!

I just guess the 4 spiritual laws writer has quite lost it? What do you think?

Why don’t we turn to some scripture.

Matthew 11:28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest." (Come to me, not invite me).

John 6:37
“All those the Father gives me will come to me (not invite me), and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.”

I also recall the Apostles being “invited” by Jesus while they were fishing (can’t recall the passages). They abandoned what they’re doing. Jesus has the invitation!

“John 15:4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you”. You have to remain in Jesus. Seems like to believe in that “personal Lord and Savior” belief is to say that it was Jesus who did not remain in you, thus the need to invite Him. So it was the vine itself that was cut off from the branches, eh?

Okay, I’m aware that Jesus “did come in” when that person opened the door in Revelation 3. But I guess that’s primarily because Jesus has the invitation – which is the heavenly banquet. I don’t see Jesus in Revelation 3 as a poor guy knocking at your house and begging for your care or concern or something (like, I guess, how the 4 spiritual laws booklet views). Instead, I view Jesus as a champion, knocking at your doors with an invitation – to come to the Father.

My point is, no need to invite Jesus. Instead, it is Jesus who is inviting us. Jesus says “come to Me”. Where’s that scenario in the “personal Lord and Savior” concept?

What’s your side?

This concept came out of the American Fundamentalist movement in the 1930’s. Largely fanned by “bible Christians”, fundamentalists were seeking to revive and purify Protestant Evangelicalism which they thought had grown cold and complacent. In fact, the accusations were that American Protestants had fallen into the same rote and lifeless practice of faith that had been observed and hated among Catholics. They went through the motions of their faith, but were not being personally transformed or made passionate about it. Emphasis was placed by preachers on the fundamentals of the faith, and one of those being that one must have a passionate and transforming personal relationship with God (as opposed to going through motions of liturgy with no inward connection).

 

[Mamanurse]

Those of us us who grew up being taught that the Church is the W of Babylon and that the Pope is the Antichrist and that Catholics worship Mary and all the other lies about the Catholic Church that are still being taught in (some) Protestant communities to this day know that (some) Protestants may want to follow Jesus but they don’t follow His commandments. They regularly bear false witness and certainly do not love their Catholic neighbors. Been there, done that.

Jim Dandy

I have to agree wholeheartedly to this one. Before I returned to the Catholic Church, we had our son baptized at a lutheran church. I was shocked and horrified at the sermon the pastor gave! He mocked the Catholic Church to the point I was even in tears (and I wasn’t practicing at that time) I wish now that we had left that service in the middle of it and left. His ENTIRE sermon said nothing of charity, nothing of love to thy neighbor,… no it was a 30 minute sermon on the fallacy of the Eucharist. Needless to say I have to thank that lutheran pastor for sending me RUNNING back to the Catholic Church!

 

[JonNC]

Those of us us who grew up being taught that the Church is the W of Babylon and that the Pope is the Antichrist and that Catholics worship Mary and all the other lies about the Catholic Church that are still being taught in (some) Protestant communities to this day know that (some) Protestants may want to follow Jesus but they don’t follow His commandments. They regularly bear false witness and certainly do not love their Catholic neighbors. Been there, done that.

Jim Dandy

Jim,
I can completely understand. There is pain and hurt caused by our words toward each other, something that Christ would not approve, particular between those of us who claim to be His.
To the extent that the words in my communion’s confessional documents add to this hurt, I ask your forgiveness, and your understanding that we too seek to overcome the 500 year old divisions that those words evidence.

Jon