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Realcatholicgk
Guest
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Nope I told you: 9-11 **
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JA4T1T,
I got a fix in!
I prayed to Mary, 
she will get her son to forgive me. I mean, after all, I am only human. And God knows you deserved it! :knight2: Errrrr, i meant: Purgatory??? not sure what you are saying. Can you clarify? I can’t think of any teaching in the Scriptures where this is said. Do you have a reference? Would this be an example of Tradition in “action”?**freesmileys.org/smileys/signs045.gif
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ron77nyc
Guest
I agree. We must endure to the end and walk in obedience and read the whole chapter in context. I just like to keep my responses short.
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Pixie_Dust
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Not just the whole chapter, but the whole Bible!
The school of thought that says all one has to do is “accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Saviour” usually doesn’t say much at all about obedience or about enduring to the end, and if they do address it, they claim that it’s impossible for someone who has trusted Christ to not endure to the end. A disobedient child cannot cut themselves off from the inheritance, they seem to think. 
Funny how as an “eternal-security” believing Baptist I had a much longer list of do’s and don’t’s than I do as a Catholic. 
I appreciate that, really. My eyes tend to glaze over if I have to scroll too much to read a post, or if it’s missing crucial paragraph breaks.
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jmcrae
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Mine, too.My eyes tend to glaze over if I have to scroll too much to read a post, or if it’s missing crucial paragraph breaks.
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MelanieAnne
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Ditto. I call them “stream of consciousness” posts and consider them to be unreadable.
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Realcatholicgk
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**I hate it when they do that. :coffeeread: Long,:yawn: unreadable things
.Myself, ****I like to use smileys! :extrahappy: **http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/dance010.gifhttp://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/dance010.giffreesmileys.org/smileys/dance010.gif
**They are much more interesting and stops you from falling asleep and dunking your nose in your coffee and blowing bubble out it when you finally wake up! Know what I mean? **Errrr, just forget I said that last thing OK?
freesmileys.org/smileys/bounce016.gif
**Thank Goodness, I have decided that I am accepting Jesus as my Personal Lord and Savior as I remember what the OP was! **
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justasking4
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When a catholic commits a mortal sin is he unsaved at that point? Does he cease being a child of God?
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guanophore
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No, ja4, this statement reveals a misunderstanding about salvation. Salvation is something into which we enter at baptism, when we become a child of God. A person who mortally sins does not become less a child of God, but they are a lost child (or sheep
).While on this earth, we are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, taking care that we walk according to the grace that cleansed us, and looking forward to what we shall attain (the perfection of our faith) when we have finished the race.
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mercygate
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A mortal sin involves full knowledge and consent of the will in doing a thing the person knows to be profoundly insulting to the justice of God. It is a conscious decision to reject God and all of his gifts, incluidng salvation. Remaining willfully impenitent in that state certainly imperils the covenant relationship between God and the sinner. We don’t “lose” our salvation like we lose our car keys. It can’t happen by accident or by weakness.
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With_Questions
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I started a thread on this a while back. It was very revealing.
The consensus amongst Catholics was universal on this question.
If I as a Catholic miss mass out of say laziness or misplaced priorities and I had a fatal accident before I get my act together, the consensus was universal that I bake in the lake.
One Catholic here that I otherwise like quite a bit said he (or she) can go quite a long time before committing a mortal sin.
So that tells me that even for the most devout Catholics, your eternal destiny with the Lord, heaven or hell, is random.
And you all pick on Protestants for their eternal security while at the same time you have eternal insecurity.
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With_Questions
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It can’t happen by accident or by weakness?
That is not the answer I universally received from Catholics in a mortal sin thread a while back.
In this thread I posed a hypothetical about a fellow who had misplaced priorities, missed mass, and soon after had a fatal accident.
The universal consensus amongst Catholics was that this fellow baked in the lake for eternity.
You all criticize Protestants for their “eternal security”. And yeah, I don’t particularly buy into that one myself.
But this thread showed me that you all have a system of “eternal insecurity” where your eternal destiny with Christ, heaven or hell, is in effect random. If you have a bad day coupled with an ill-timed death, you just might get sent to hell to fry for eternity.
Yuck.
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jmcrae
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Because he chose on purpose that sleeping in was more important to him that eternal life in Heaven with God, and then never repented of that choice, but rather, turned that conscious and free choice into an unthinking habit.
It’s not random. We all know what the Commandments say. It’s impossible to break the Commandments by accident, or by just having a bad day - and it was explained to you in that thread that if the guy had no idea that missing Mass on Sundays was a mortal sin, then his culpability is limited - maybe he ends up in Purgatory, listening to the longest and most boring homily in the whole world, until finally he “gets” that the Mass is not about being entertained - and then, upon that realization, the door springs open and he goes to Heaven.
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guanophore
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Does the notion of a pure and righteous life offend you?
If that is true, then you need to go back and read mercygate’s post. Mortal sin is a deliberate, knowledgeable. and freely chosen decision to turn from God. There is nothing “random” about it.
Actually, I don’t “pick on Protestants” about that. I object to using one’s sense of security as an excuse for sin and lack of discipleship.
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guanophore
Guest
Ok, but not all Catholics are well educated in their faith. No, mortal sin is not an “accident”. Deliveration is one of the key elements of it. Yes, weakness is one of the main factors with sin. This is why He gives us more grace. The one who does not turn to His grace will die in their sins.
Misplaced priorities can, indeed, be fatal. We cannot know all ends, and therefore, it behooves us to lead each day as if it were our last.
I trust completely in the eternal Mercy of God. But He was clear that one cannot serve God, and mammon. Remember the parable of the man who built towers to hold his wealth (grain)?
Luke 12:16-19
"The land of a rich man produced abundantly. 17 And he thought to himself, ‘What should I do, for I have no place to store my crops?’ 18 Then he said, ‘I will do this: I will pull down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. 19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry.’ 20 But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life is being demanded of you. And the things you have prepared, whose will they be?’
Indeed! Jesus gave many such lessons, about keeping the lamps lit, having sufficient oil, being ready when the Master came, etc etc. One taken, the other left. Constantly He talked about “you do not know the day, or the hour”.
One who puts his hand to the plough, and looks back, is not worthy.
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Realcatholicgk
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I started a thread on this a while back. It was very revealing.
The consensus amongst Catholics was universal on this question.
If I as a Catholic miss mass out of say laziness or misplaced priorities and I had a fatal accident before I get my act together, the consensus was universal that I bake in the lake.
**Who are we to judge? I would say that person wasn’t a Pratical catholic as understood by the Church in communication with the Holy Sea. The consensus should have been that that would be between you and God! And that is the truth! **
One Catholic here that I otherwise like quite a bit said he (or she) can go quite a long time before committing a mortal sin.
Blessed Mother Teresa?No wait, she always said she was a sinner like the rest of us. :nun2: /COLOR]
So that tells me that even for the most devout Catholics, your eternal destiny with the Lord, heaven or hell, is random.
**That is an “interesting” theory.Must have taken you a big leap of faith to determin that!
And you all pick on Protestants for their eternal security while at the same time you have eternal insecurity.
Oh, By the way:
freesmileys.org/smileys/forum/offtopic.gif
**But we still love you. Catholics always accept Jesus as our Personal Lord and Savior, afterall it is the christian thing to do!**
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justasking4
Guest
If a catholic dies in a state of mortal sin he will go to hell. Correct?
If true this means a child of God, a person for whom Christ is condemned. This would run counter to the great promise of Romans 8:1 where we read—Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
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AshleyBelle
Guest
If a Catholic dies in a state of mortal sin, the state of their soul is committed to God’s mercy. We believe we should strive to remain in a state of grace. God knows our hearts…we all have until the very last moment, our very last breath, to choose God over sin. God knows if our last thought was of repentence or rejection. He does not send us to hell, we may only send ourselves.
And that is a beautiful BIble passage, thank you for sharing it:) I agree, that those who are in Christ Jesus have no condemnation. Unfortunately, we often choose to reject Jesus because of Sin. Thankfully God is all forgiving and all merciful...and all we need to do is repent when we fail... He welcomes us back with loving arms:)
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Pixie_Dust
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Yes, we must remain “in Christ Jesus” in order to not be condemned. If you keep reading that verse, it says “who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” If we are walking after the flesh, we are no longer “in Christ Jesus.”
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justasking4
Guest
Do we keep ourselves in Christ or does Christ keep us in Him by His power?
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