Accepting Jesus as "Personal Lord and Savior"?

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Cor_ad_Cor said:
For many megachurches of nondenominational flavor, this is likely all he’s been told is necessary for salvation, so baptism may even be discouraged by that group. Some do not value any physical action or sign but believe everything is to be an internal and emotional experience.
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There are very few of the “megachurches” that do not recognize the importance of baptism. My brother-in-law was baptized the same Sunday that he was “saved”. If the church is Christian and believes and teaches the Trinity a baptism will follow at some date. In the LCMS church that I attend I was baptized after receiving instruction which was about 3 months time.

Blessings,

Rita
 
This post is not about the original question.

But just some quotes for readers who may have some mistaken ideas about Catholics…

“If we are in relation with him who does not die, who is Life itself and Love itself, then we are in life. Then we “live”.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI (Spe Salvi)

w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20071130_spe-salvi.html

“The joy of the gospel fills the hearts and lives of all who encounter Jesus.”

“I invite all Christians, everywhere, at this very moment, to a renewed personal encounter with Jesus Christ, or at least an openness to letting him encounter them; I ask all of you to do this unfailingly each day. No one should think that this invitation is not meant for him or her, since “no one is excluded from the joy brought by the Lord”.”

“The Lord does not disappoint those who take this risk; whenever we take a step towards Jesus, we come to realize that he is already there, waiting for us with open arms. Now is the time to say to Jesus: “Lord, I have let myself be deceived; in a thousand ways I have shunned your love, yet here I am once more, to renew my covenant with you. I need you. Save me once again, Lord, take me once more into your redeeming embrace”. How good it feels to come back to him whenever we are lost! Let me say this once more: God never tires of forgiving us; we are the ones who tire of seeking his mercy. Christ, who told us to forgive one another “seventy times seven” (Mt 18:22) has given us his example: he has forgiven us seventy times seven. Time and time again he bears us on his shoulders. No one can strip us of the dignity bestowed upon us by this boundless and unfailing love. With a tenderness which never disappoints, but is always capable of restoring our joy, he makes it possible for us to lift up our heads and to start anew. Let us not flee from the resurrection of Jesus, let us never give up, come what will. May nothing inspire more than his life, which impels us onwards!”…

“I realize of course that joy is not expressed the same way at all times in life, especially at moments of great difficulty. Joy adapts and changes, but it always endures, even as a flicker of light born of our personal certainty that, when everything is said and done, we are infinitely loved.”

~ Pope Francis (The Joy of the Gospel)

w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/apost_exhortations/documents/papa-francesco_esortazione-ap_20131124_evangelii-gaudium.html#The_joy_of_the_gospel

"Moreover, our radical belonging to Christ and the fact that “we are in him” must imbue in us an attitude of total trust and immense joy. In short, we must indeed exclaim with St Paul: “If God is for us, who is against us?” (Rom 8: 31). And the reply is that nothing and no one “will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom 8: 39). Our Christian life, therefore, stands on the soundest and safest rock one can imagine. And from it we draw all our energy, precisely as the Apostle wrote: “I can do all things in him who strengthens me” (Phil 4: 13).

Therefore, let us face our life with its joys and sorrows supported by these great sentiments that Paul offers to us. By having an experience of them we will realize how true are the words the Apostle himself wrote: “I know whom I have believed, and I am sure that he is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me”; in other words, until the Day (II Tm 1: 12) of our definitive meeting with Christ the Judge, Saviour of the world and our Saviour."

~ Pope Benedict XVI

w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061108.html
 
Since you say he is going to an evangelical mega church, I am guessing it is non-denominational. Which means it’s anyone’s guess what exactly he means by that statement as non-denominational churches often have a very loose creed or no real creed at all. My guess, from years of being a Protestant myself of various persuasions is that he believes he “got saved” or became a Christian by saying a prayer of contrition and asking Jesus to be the center of his life. He is likely not baptized yet, as that usually comes later than the conversion moment. I would think within a year or so he would request baptism, though it seems many churches are focusing on baptism less and less now.
 
Cathoholic said:
And if you HAVE TO confess Christ with your mouth, can it be a one time event, or must you KEEP confessing Christ with your mouth.
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Well, if you confess that Jesus is Lord, but he’s not really your Lord (as in you don’t obey him and live for him) then your confession is empty words. The tree is known by its fruits. So, I would say that the confession (and accompanying obedience) has to be a lifelong endeavor. It is not simply enough to have one single religious experience and think that sums up truly following Jesus.
Cathoholic said:
And if you HAVE TO confess Christ with your mouth, what other “works” are necessary in how you are putting forth this salvation formula?

God bless.

Cathoholic
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Works aren’t necessary in the sense that they justify us. They are necessary evidences that we have been forgiven and been born again. If Jesus truly is the Lord of your life, you cannot remain the way you were before. There has to be some change.
 
Itwin:
Well, if you confess that Jesus is Lord, but he’s not really your Lord (as in you don’t obey him and live for him) then your confession is empty words.
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But the verses you quoted have St. Paul saying if you confess with your lips AND believe in your heart you will be saved.

Do you think that is “faith alone”? Why isn’t the “believe in your heart” enough?

(This is important and not mere pedantic questions because a lot of people who think “accepting Jesus into your heart as personal Lord and Savior” would say NO WORKS are necessary. No “works” including preaching or confessing with your mouth.)

You said . . . .
So, I would say that the confession (and accompanying obedience) has to be a lifelong endeavor. It is not simply enough to have one single religious experience
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This is absolutely right.

But the reason I want to illustrate these points is for victrolatim, who’s friend has been the cause of some potential confusion.
victrolatim. Being “born again” is NOT what Jesus says about being “born of water and the Spirit” to your Baptist friend.

At least if he is anything like my Baptist Bible school, youth group, and youth camp that I attended.

If you want I can go over that in more detail, but a lot of it is based upon emotion and formulas that are not in Sacred Scripture.

.
 
victrolatim said:
I have a friend who has been learning about Christianity and reading the scriptures for some months. He has no prior religious background. Much as I would like for him to be growing in the Catholic church he has been going to his girlfriend’s evangelical megachurch. This past weekend he was very happy to tell us that he had “accepted Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior.” We were happy that he felt this confident in his understanding of Christ, but I’m curious from a Catholic perspective what that statement actually means to protestants. Does that mean he is baptized or is it like some type of protestant version of consecrating one’s life to Christ? If so, how much further does he go until he gets an official baptism into the Christian faith?
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“Accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior” is a lot like dating, eventually it needs to go deeper or the relationship will fizzle.
 
I’m glad this person who you say has no religious background is at least searching and being led to a church of some sort even if it isn’t a church created by Jesus.

The pressure people feel to say two sentences asking Jesus into their heart as their personal Lord and Savior is unfortunate. Often the OSAS idea comes into play and reduces contrition for sins.

These people feel they need to have an earthly reassurance that they will go to heaven. It flies in the face of faith and salvation through the grace of G-d.

It is rooted in anxiety. It is a way of taking the reins from He who reigns, so to speak.

I was raised in a denomination before finding the truth.

I’ll pray for these people.
 
Cathoholic said:
But the verses you quoted have St. Paul saying if you confess with your lips AND believe in your heart you will be saved.

Do you think that is “faith alone”? Why isn’t the “believe in your heart” enough?

(This is important and not mere pedantic questions because a lot of people who think “accepting Jesus into your heart as personal Lord and Savior” would say NO WORKS are necessary. No “works” including preaching or confessing with your mouth.)
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This is a misunderstanding of faith alone and the evangelical view of works. If you believe in your heart, you will confess it. If you deny Jesus before men, then how can you say you truly believe in your heart? Where there is faith, there will be action. Believing, as I’ve said before, is not knowing. Believing on Jesus is trusting him completely enough to do what he says.

A preacher cannot save himself through the act of preaching. The word brings faith, and the word is brought by preachers. The Holy Spirit uses the word to convict people of sin and reveal Jesus. That is not our work in the sense that we are striving to be justified, but it is the work of the Spirit that we merely need to receive and accept.

Even belief can be said not to be a work, because there is always prevenient grace, the grace that goes before.

Have to get back to work, but will finish responding later.
 
ltwin said:
This is a misunderstanding of faith alone and the evangelical view of works. If you believe in your heart, you will confess it. If you deny Jesus before men, then how can you say you truly believe in your heart? Where there is faith, there will be action. Believing, as I’ve said before, is not knowing. Believing on Jesus is trusting him completely enough to do what he says.

A preacher cannot save himself through the act of preaching. The word brings faith, and the word is brought by preachers. The Holy Spirit uses the word to convict people of sin and reveal Jesus. That is not our work in the sense that we are striving to be justified, but it is the work of the Spirit that we merely need to receive and accept.

Even belief can be said not to be a work, because there is always prevenient grace, the grace that goes before.

Have to get back to work, but will finish responding later.
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Sorry, though I understand what you are trying to say, i feel that this is typical Protestants explaining the Bible which is very often indirect ,tortuous and complicated making simple verse very difficult and contradictory.

The said verse cannot be read in isolation without referring it to other verses in the Gospel. Otherwise one is forced to understand it literally - confessing with the lip and believing in the heart - two things therein.
 
Itwin (parenthetical addition mine):
If you believe in your heart (that Jesus is Lord), you will confess it.
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Then WHY quote Romans 10 (which doesn’t say that)?

Why not just quote the verse you are drawing that idea from?

And is the work of “confessing Christ” with your lips NECESSARY for salvation?

And if it is, is that a “work”? And if it is a “work” why formulate a “faith ALONE” statement for salvation?

Is the work of “preaching” NECESSARY for salvation?

And if preaching the Gospel is NECESSARY for salvation, is that a “work”? Or does THAT count as “faith ALONE”?
 
victrolatim.

I hope you are asking yourself these questions and applying them not only to your Baptist friend, but to our own Catholic Church as well.

Why?

Because you will see the Catholic Church answers the above questions quite Scripturally.

(You will see how later in this thread if it keeps going).

But you will also see your Baptist friend pick and hold to SOME verses, . . .
. . . . reject other verses (although he wouldn’t put it that way), . . . .
. . . . and implicitly ADD the word “ALONE” to other verses when the word “ALONE” isn’t in those verses.

And I think it will be instructive for you to see this.

Not so much to “convert” your Baptist friend (although don’t think that is beyond the work of the Holy Spirit), but to protect YOU and YOUR Catholic faith from the potential seemingly Scriptural challenges that MAY come up for you in the future as you have inevitable faith discussions with your Baptist friend.

And although things like this won’t “convert” your Baptist friend, your Baptist friend(s) will almost certainly be LESS anti-Catholic if you give him Biblical answers to your Catholic faith.

And they often will tell you that their respect for Catholicism has greatly increased due to your discussions with them and they often THANK you for sharing these Catholic ideas with them (not always but frequently).

So don’t shy away from those Baptist-Catholic discussions. But you NEED to prepare yourself well too.

And when you get asked a question that you don’t know the answer to (as we all do), just admit it and tell him you will do your best to attempt to find out the answer. Then do that.
 
Darryl B. You said (here and here):
“Accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior” is a lot like dating, eventually it needs to go deeper or the relationship will fizzle.
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(And eventually it will come time to meet His family).
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Aside from the laughter I had when I read this construct, it is profoundly true.

Great insights and I will certainly “swipe” your analogy in the future.
 
Cathoholic said:
Darryl B. You said (here and here):

Aside from the laughter I had when I read this construct, it is profoundly true.

Great insights and I will certainly “swipe” your analogy in the future.
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Is is just as humorous to look at receiving Christ through infant baptism as an arranged marriage? If the relationship isn’t genuinely confirmed once you discover who you have been partnered with it will also fizzle out. To be honest, neither scenario strikes me as funny.
 
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