Accepting the truth and correction

[Jump4Joy]

If a wicked person tells you the truth, it doesn’t cease or stop being truth because of the source. How does a good Catholic humbly accept correction or criticism even when it’s intended to humiliate and belittle the person?

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

If a wicked person tells you the truth, it doesn’t cease or stop being truth because of the source. How does a good Catholic humbly accept correction or criticism even when it’s intended to humiliate and belittle the person?

I think you’re going to have to be a little more specific. What is the source, what is the advice?

You’ve stated it’s valid advice, so I’m going to run on the assumption that despite it’s delivery it is advice you needed to hear.

If this “truth” is coming from a non-essential peer–then find a supportive place.

If this is coming from work-- then talk to HR

If this is coming from the parents of a minor-- then seek guidance at school

If this is coming from the parents of a non-minor child-- then seek a professional therapist.

If this is coming from strangers-- consider just how bad the behavior may be and that perhaps if it has gotten to the point where strangers same you over behavior you need to fix you need to take drastic action.

 

[Jump4Joy]

I’m not talking specifically. Someone mentioned in another board on how we shouldn’t avoid the Catholic Church because of the hypocrisy of it’s leaders. I think most people have had hypocritical family and friends provide us with much needed advice.

 

[Tulitas]

What?
How are they hypocritical if they gave you much needed advice?

It’s entirely possible that you just don’t like to be given advice.
Some people think they can handle all their own issues. Some take advice to heart, and improve or at least work at it, others just straight up get angry.
Think about which type of person you need/want to be.
God bless

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I’m not talking specifically. Someone mentioned in another board on how we shouldn’t avoid the Catholic Church because of the hypocrisy of it’s leaders. I think most people have had hypocritical family and friends provide us with much needed advice.

If we eliminated taking advice from every hypocrite we wouldn’t have anyone to take advice from.

It’s also pretty “rich” calling the church hypocrites. There are some evil sinners. Sure, don’t take advice from them. Most are decent people. Painting all leaders with the same brush because of the sins of one is immature.

 

[Jump4Joy]

My post is a response to another post not my personal opinion. Someone mentioned in another post how others use the hypocrisy of organized religion as an excuse to dismiss the church’s teachings. I thought about how difficult it may be to hear the truth from a person who you perceive as cruel or who may actually be cruel.

 

[Jump4Joy]

Where is the difference between someone using the truth or giving you advice to humiliate or belittle you or because they care and does it matter? My perception could be wrong because I’m not open to what they’re saying. It isn’t too far fetched that some people enjoy criticizing others to direct attention away from their own shortcomings. Some people have a habit of only pointing out the negatives in those around them.

 

[Tulitas]

You have to ask yourself: WHY are they doing this? That will give you your answer.
The truth is always compassionate, no? If you don’t like to hear the truth, but the truth exists to enable you to be a better person, does it matter?
There are times that we all have to eat crow, as they say. It hurts, and is embarrassing. But if we GROW from it, it’s worth it in the end.

Your last 2 sentences are displaying exactly what you believe to be a terrible trait in others.
Do you see that?

I hope you can work this out.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

My post is a response to another post not my personal opinion. Someone mentioned in another post how others use the hypocrisy of organized religion as an excuse to dismiss the church’s teachings. I thought about how difficult it may be to hear the truth from a person who you perceive as cruel or who may actually be cruel.

You’re not really being clear.

Being a hypocrite and giving advice is different than being abusive. Being a hypocrite doesn’t mean that someone is humiliated or belittled.

The whole “someone you percieve as cruel” seems like a bit of special snowflaking to me. Like calling someone cruel becuase they hold a belief that contradicts yours.

 

[hymin]

“Fellow laborer, because he ministers to the saints: ‘A brother that is helped by his brother is like a strong city (Prov 18:19).’” (St. Thomas Aquinas, Philemon, Super ad Philemonem, C. 1 L.1, 5)

“The master ought to feel towards his servant as a friend, hence it is said, as your own soul. For this is proper to friends, that they are of one mind in what they will and what they do not will. ‘Now the multitude of the believers were of one heart and one soul (Acts 4:32).’” (Ibid., Prologue, 1)

Because of original sin, we see the reality that preachers can be true or false. Bonaventure said: “Now preachers, who are authoritative, truthful, and beneficial, are called true preachers. Consequently, those are false preachers who have the opposite characteristics whether totally or in part.” (Disputed Questions on Evangelical Perfection, concerning: replies to the neg. pos, poverty, q. 2, n. 18)

If the preaching is beneficial, there will be growth in the parish toward unity, albeit still among the weeds that apparently cause division. You will see simplicity in her members, that is - those who seek God alone in the teaching and the practice of the Catholic Church. Many times a person would have to join the consecrated life for this. If we want to accept the truth, we have to know ourselves and keep the accusation focus on ourselves. Only by that can we profit to know God and be simple and free.

 

[twoboys]

I think we can find hypocrites in many places - churches, schools, workplaces, universities, government offices, etc. If you want to know whether a person is a hypocrite, it will take a bit of time to find out.

However, since you are talking about church/parish, you are going to learn about the church/parish. I would probably advise you to be more objective, taking more time to find it out rather than labelling them as hypocrites at the beginning.

 

[Seagull]

I know that God doesn’t answer me directly -
He - often speaks through others - even the wicked !

Catholics shouldn’t complain, but accept, with gratitude, God’s directions towards salvation.
of course, I’d much rather hear, what’s needed, from the Priest, though.

That’s why I read religious books - the source is more powerful.
Scriptures - verses - are the true answers - that we must take time to seek out -

 

[Jump4Joy]

That’s my true question. How do you know if someone is using the truth to emotionally abuse you or elevate themselves? Is it worth it listening to such people? If I can’t trust someone, why do I have to listen to anything they say?
Some relish in the opportunity to point out your faults. They always point out something you’re doing incorrectly continuously. Sure, they are usually right but that doesn’t undermine or dismiss the cruel intentions.
I don’t trust many people when they are telling the so called truth. There is only one person I trust to give me correction.

 

[Jump4Joy]

Why would God use others to tell someone the truth, especially the wicked?

 

[pianistclare]

Because the truth is absolute.
No gray area. Everyone can have access to it if they so desire.
God uses all kinds of things and people to His holy ends.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

That’s my true question. How do you know if someone is using the truth to emotionally abuse you or elevate themselves? Is it worth it listening to such people? If I can’t trust someone, why do I have to listen to anything they say?
Some relish in the opportunity to point out your faults. They always point out something you’re doing incorrectly continuously. Sure, they are usually right but that doesn’t undermine or dismiss the cruel intentions.
I don’t trust many people when they are telling the so called truth. There is only one person I trust to give me correction.

I mean this in the best way possible.

Why did you find it necessary to bend the truth? You state your first premise–then correct it saying it’s about the church–and now are back to individual situations.

What drove you to try to re-direct the question?

Perhaps, you might want to consider that the issue is not with the person giving you advice, but with both the advice givers and yourself.

If you only trust one person to give you advice, than why did you come to a forum full of—people? I’ve been called so many things here—contributor to the cesspool, bully, mean, etc. There are people who have told me via PM that it’s their sole mission to get me banned.

And I have other people who like how blunt and realistic I am, and they want me to be a moderator or start my own forum.

You know what the truth is? It depends on them. How they perceive my words often has little to do with me.

 

[Horton]

The OP did not lie. The statement that has you so disturbed was NOT made by her. It was a statement someone else had made and she made that very clear. Please don’t twist this up and derail the thread based on your misconstruing what the OP said or didn’t say.

Calling the OP a liar is very uncharitable.

 

[Horton]

With grace. God gives us the ability (grace) to deal with unpleasant people. When we are criticized by folks with bad intentions, it becomes more about them than us. We should know our worth as a child of God. Wicked people can only make themselves feel good by tearing down others. That is their problem, their lack of knowing their worth with God.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

In regards to the “lying”

She said that:

My post is a response to another post not my personal opinion. Someone mentioned in another post how others use the hypocrisy of organized religion as an excuse to dismiss the church’s teachings.

However, now she’s saying it is about her feeling and not at all about organized religion.

 

[Midge]

I’m Jewish, but truth is truth regardless of its source.

However Jesus himself did teach the following about those who profess to speak the word of God:

Beware of those who falsely claim to speak on behalf of God… By the fruit they produce you will recognize them…For every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit…It is by the fruit they produce that you will recognize the false ones.–Matthew 7:15-20

So we can’t blame people when clergy or religious organizations that claim to follow Christ don’t measure up to his own standard for recognizing false teachers or groups. Jesus said that bad trees or bad people don’t produce good fruit or true teachings.

The word in Matthew 7:15 in the Greek is often translated as “prophet” as in “false prophets.” But the word does not refer to someone who foretells the future, but someone who claims to speak the word on behalf of God.

We cannot expect anyone to accept the teachings of God if our churches, synagogues, temples, mosques or religious organizations and clergy as well as members are hypocritical, embroiled in controversy, will not stop victimizing children and blaming others but themselves for their own crimes (as well as congregation members stop making excuses for their clergy and leaders). Religious people have often only themselves to blame for a hypocritical witness to the outside world.

If we really have life-saving truth than we must stop trying to save face.