Access Denied SSPX

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Walking_Home said:
I had already made reference to that. I was under the impression that the gov’t own the missions—but even though the gov’t does not—the following would still seem to apply. The above was in reference as to where the order to deny admittance and the locking of the doors originated.
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I thought you were trying to explain why you believed the order to lock the doors would not have been made by the Park Rangers.
 
Frank_Fenn said:
I’d like to make a point clear if I may? The SSPX is the bishops and the priests. Not the laity. The laity is not defined as SSPX. Also, please note, that the canonical status of the laity that goes to the SSPX has not been determined, as pointed out to me by my wife.

I thought to clear up any confusion if it exists what the SSPX is, and who is a member of the SSPX.

If access was denied to parishioners then that is also unfair because the parishioners cannot be confused as members of the SSPX.

My wife wanted that clarified about a year ago when she asked the SSPX priest, " who is classified as a member of the SSPX? the priest replied, the bishops and the priests.
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Actually, there is a Third Order SSPX for the laity. It is similar to most other Third Orders requiring frequent receipt of the sacraments, prayer, fasting, and saying the Divine Office from a traditional Breviary. The Third Order has little to do with the Society and more to do with traditional prayer and customs.

Although I do not attend the Novus Ordo, I frequently stop in and pray at our neighborhood (diocesan) parish and frequently go to Confession there also.
 
giuseppeTO said:
Although I do not attend the Novus Ordo, I frequently stop in and pray at our neighborhood (diocesan) parish and frequently go to Confession there also.
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I’m like you. If the Church is open and there is a tabernacle there, I go in to pray. Confession wherever I can find a priest. I just don’t tell them I go to the TLM; they always want you to attend their church. 🙂
 
Loy said:
I thought you were trying to explain why you believed the order to lock the doors would not have been made by the Park Rangers.
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I was—in the context that it would not seem likely that an NPS supervisor, manager —would order the park ranger to deny admission to a group of people for the reason of “not Catholic”. The order came from someone—and since the ranger was involved–liability would also seem to apply to NPS.
 
SSPX has been without a pope since their defection. It is no different than the Protestant Reformation. Therefore it cannot propagate the Faith.

Many Catholics empathize with the SSPX in refusing to outlaw the Tridentine Mass (I also feel the same) but the fork in the road was STAYING inside the Church and being an inspiration to restore the Church’s former holiness OR

Leave and have no (name removed by moderator)ut or influence whatsoever. It is desertion and helps no one. I believe the Church will be restored to its former glory one day and the Latin Mass will be restored. But it will happen WITHIN the Church.🙂
 
johnstown_johnn said:
SSPX has been without a pope since their defection. It is no different than the Protestant Reformation. Therefore it cannot propagate the Faith.

Many Catholics empathize with the SSPX in refusing to outlaw the Tridentine Mass (I also feel the same) but the fork in the road was STAYING inside the Church and being an inspiration to restore the Church’s former holiness OR

Leave and have no (name removed by moderator)ut or influence whatsoever. It is desertion and helps no one. I believe the Church will be restored to its former glory one day and the Latin Mass will be restored. But it will happen WITHIN the Church.🙂
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The Orthodox do not have the papacy—yet they retain apostolic succession, valid sacraments. By you-- the Orthodox would be “protestants” with no valid Faith.
 
This thread has gone off topic. Please start a new thread if you wish to discuss side issues. Thank you.
 
Walking_Home said:
The Orthodox do not have the papacy—yet they retain apostolic succession, valid sacraments. By you-- the Orthodox would be “protestants” with no valid Faith.
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The Orthodox/Rome split occurred many many years ago. That question of “apostolic succession” is in dispute still or has been resolved. I am ignorant of its current status, so, please forgive my ignorance.

On the other hand, the SSPX group is quite recent in comparison and. even though the pope has reached out no progress has been made as far as I know. It is in charity and understanding that the Holy father wishes reconcilliation but the Church cannot be dictated to otherwise it would be a “tail wagging the dog.”🙂
 
johnstown_johnn said:
The Orthodox/Rome split occurred many many years ago. That question of “apostolic succession” is in dispute still or has been resolved. I am ignorant of its current status, so, please forgive my ignorance.

On the other hand, the SSPX group is quite recent in comparison and. even though the pope has reached out no progress has been made as far as I know. It is in charity and understanding that the Holy father wishes reconcilliation but the Church cannot be dictated to otherwise it would be a “tail wagging the dog.”🙂
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Time really is of no relevence. Close to a 1000 years and the Orthodox still hold apostolic succession. If you had kept up—so do the SSPX. Now if you want to speak about charity—start with yourself–saying they have no Pope and therefore cannot propagate the Faith has been proven wrong by the very existance of the Orthodox.
 
Loy’s right. And if we’re bending over backwards looking for ways to be ecumenical with people who aren’t even Catholic then we should be at least as much with Catholics.

I’ve never gotten why people want to tear into them and treat them worse than non-Catholics. You could be a wiccan and get a lot more sympathy.
 
Walking_Home said:
Time really is of no relevence. Close to a 1000 years and the Orthodox still hold apostolic succession. If you had kept up—so do the SSPX. Now if you want to speak about charity—start with yourself–saying they have no Pope and therefore cannot propagate the Faith has been proven wrong by the very existance of the Orthodox.
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The Orthodox Church has had minimal growth for those thousand years. Does the Orthodox Church have a pope? A successor to Peter?🙂
 
johnstown_johnn said:
The Orthodox Church has had minimal growth for those thousand years. Does the Orthodox Church have a pope? A successor to Peter?🙂
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The Othodox Church has survived–even without the papacy–with apostolic succession, that is what counts.
 
The Orthodox vs SSPX analogy is apples to oranges. One can see at least a bit of history between the East and the West over proper jurisdiction of the See of Peter. While we believe they are in error in their view of this issue the Orthodox at least are still within an historical understanding according to their local tradition. So in this case we have Patriarchs and the Pope continuing a “debate”.

The SSPX claims to know the Truth. The SSPX says it has the same understanding of authority as the rest of the Latin Church and yet is openly rebellious. Yes they have valid Orders but as long as they remain in defiance of Rome they’re no different than the Old Catholic movements (who also have valid but illicit orders) at worst or the most public example of cafeteria religion at best.

Now as to people of other denominations or religions being allowed to come. Again in their case they are in error not in rebellion against the Church. Most Protestants today have no idea what Catholicism believes and what history has to say about The Church. They are in ignorance. People of other religions might also fall into the same category. The SSPX however is in open rebellion. Much has been given and much is required.

If the Bishop denied them access he was within his rights if a bit high handed in the application. If the NPS is at fault in its understanding of the Bishop wanted well then it was an honest mistake. I don’t think it has to get anymore complicated than that.
 
rtconstant said:
The SSPX claims to know the Truth. The SSPX says it has the same understanding of authority as the rest of the Latin Church and yet is openly rebellious.

The SSPX however is in open rebellion.
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Yeh, yeh, yeh. And what about the French and German bishops and the other bishops? What do you call that, CLOSED rebellion? That’s much better because there’s more of them on that side?

Look, it was announced that relations between Rome and the SSPX bishops are an internal matter. That’s spelled I-N-T-E-R-N-A-L. I suggest leaving it there.
 
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