Accidenally Calling a Saint "Lord"

[Maximus_88]

So today at Divine Liturgy we had a “novena” to some of our saints. During the novena we had a chance to send up our petitions to these saints. There was a “pause” in the priest’s prayers so to speak. During one of those “pauses” I said “Lord” in my head. Then I stopped what I was saying, because I realized what I said sounded awkward and possibly idolatrous and then said something along the lines of “pray for us…” Now that I think of it I might have called this saint “Lord.” I do not believe that this saint is our Lord, for we have only one Lord, Jesus Christ. Am I in grave sin because of this or did I make a non-sinful mistake?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

So today at Divine Liturgy we had a “novena” to some of our saints. During the novena we had a chance to send up our petitions to these saints. There was a “pause” in the priest’s prayers so to speak. During one of those “pauses” I said “Lord” in my head. Then I stopped what I was saying, because I realized what I said sounded awkward and possibly idolatrous and then said something along the lines of “pray for us…” Now that I think of it I might have called this saint “Lord.” I do not believe that this saint is our Lord, for we have only one Lord, Jesus Christ. Am I in grave sin because of this or did I make a non-sinful mistake?

When you do something by accident why do you think that you will go to hell based on something that you did not even intend? Do you know what is needed to be guilty of a grave sin? Do you know what the Church teaches?

 

[Maximus_88]

When you do something by accident why do you think that you will go to hell based on something that you did not even intend? Do you know what is needed to be guilty of a grave sin? Do you know what the Church teaches?

Of course I know what the Church teaches. In order for one to commit a mortal sin, there must be (1) full knowledge; (2) deliberate consent; and (3) the matter in question must be grave. In my instance, it is clear that (1) and (3) are satisfied. So the sinfulness of my actions in this case hinges on (2). In general, I have a problem with constantly questioning my motives. I am always asking myself: “did I do this consensually?;” “did I intend or desire a particular result?” Or maybe at a more basic level, I often find myself wondering what things like this say about me as a person. Am I so bad that I do these things because of my own impurity and spiritual sickness? This is pure torture.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Of course I know what the Church teaches. In order for one to commit a mortal sin, there must be (1) full knowledge; (2) deliberate consent; and (3) the matter in question must be grave. In my instance, it is clear that (1) and (3) are satisfied. So the sinfulness of my actions in this case hinges on (2). In general, I have a problem with constantly questioning my motives. I am always asking myself: “did I do this consensually?;” “did I intend or desire a particular result?” Or maybe at a more basic level, I often find myself wondering what things like this say about me as a person. Am I so bad that I do these things because of my own impurity and spiritual sickness? This is pure torture.

I am going to measure my response to you because I see that you are relatively new. And I want to encourage you to stick around and participate in the forums. And please realize that my response comes in part from a place of frustration with the seemingly endless run of scrupulocity questions.

1. It is only torture in your own mind. Logic would dispel much of your agony. So if you choose not to employ logic then that is on you.
2. You need to find a good confessor that can help you form a conscience properly. This is probably you local parish priest.
3. You need to employ your logic and knowlege of the faith. And you need to do so in many ways.

You claim to know the teaching. Ok. So you know that if you die in mortal sin you go to hell right? And you think that you are in danger of hell because in the force of habit you accidentally called a saint “lord” instead of the probable other response of “pray for us” You think the God that died on the Cross for his love for you, now has you destined to hell? That is your understanding of what the Catholic God is? It is illogical.
And it is also illogical to think that a stranger on the internet has any sort of power here. Neither I nor anyone else on here is empowered to forgive any sin you have or even declare any sin you have. That is not what CAF is. It is not a replacement for the sacraments.

In my experience, (and that has been very limited) with people who suffer from scrupulosity it takes a two fold manifestation.

1. It is like OCD
2. It is a way to pridefully tell the world how good you are. By asking the question if this is a mortal sin (which it obviously was an accidental utterance.) then what you are really saying is that your soul is so clean that this is your “Mortal” problem.

So I am going to say to you that no one knows the intent except you and why in the world you would seek a stranger on the internet advice on this is odd to me. I don’t know you and I have no power in the realm of sin. You need to find a priest who can help you form your conscience. And you need to employ logic of what you have been informed about God and His Church.

 

[captainrick]

I am going to measure my response to you because I see that you are relatively new. And I want to encourage you to stick around and participate in the forums. And please realize that my response comes in part from a place of frustration with the seemingly endless run of scrupulocity questions.

1. It is only torture in your own mind. Logic would dispel much of your agony. So if you choose not to employ logic then that is on you.
2. You need to find a good confessor that can help you form a conscience properly. This is probably you local parish priest.
3. You need to employ your logic and knowlege of the faith. And you need to do so in many ways.

You claim to know the teaching. Ok. So you know that if you die in mortal sin you go to hell right? And you think that you are in danger of hell because in the force of habit you accidentally called a saint “lord” instead of the probable other response of “pray for us” You think the God that died on the Cross for his love for you, now has you destined to hell? That is your understanding of what the Catholic God is? It is illogical.
And it is also illogical to think that a stranger on the internet has any sort of power here. Neither I nor anyone else on here is empowered to forgive any sin you have or even declare any sin you have. That is not what CAF is. It is not a replacement for the sacraments.

In my experience, (and that has been very limited) with people who suffer from scrupulosity it takes a two fold manifestation.

1. It is like OCD
2. It is a way to pridefully tell the world how good you are. By asking the question if this is a mortal sin (which it obviously was an accidental utterance.) then what you are really saying is that your soul is so clean that this is your “Mortal” problem.

So I am going to say to you that no one knows the intent except you and why in the world you would seek a stranger on the internet advice on this is odd to me. I don’t know you and I have no power in the realm of sin. You need to find a priest who can help you form your conscience. And you need to employ logic of what you have been informed about God and His Church.

^ Perfect answer. We see so much of this on CAF…

 

[Neofight]

No biggie…take a deep breath and relax.

I can’t tell you how many times I accidently called a beloved teacher in school, “mom”…the slip was not disrespectful to my mom, or the teacher…Saints are friends of God, and God would not give a slip of the tongue like that a second’s thought…in fact both the Saint and the Father might be flattered…the Saint for being recognized as holy, and God as being recognized as the creator of someone so righteous!

Peace and all good!

 

[porthos11]

Furthermore, there’s nothing particularly wrong with calling a saint “lord” (lowercase ell), as we do with St. Joseph (“my father and lord”). Heck, we even call our Cardinals “lord” and they’re not even dead yet.

 

[Bonnie]

I do feel sorry for people who think every slip of the tongue or mind (you didn’t even say the word out loud) is a horrible sin that will send them to hell. Anyway, it’s permissible to call human beings on earth lord, so why not saints?

We called St. Kateri a saint in our prayers years before the Vatican declared her to be, but we didn’t consider ourselves presumptuous. It started with a slip of the tongue & became a habit. And you wouldn’t believe how often I screw up saying simple prayers such as the Our Father & Hail Mary! When I do mess up, I always imagine God laughing along with me.

 

[Maximus_88]

I definitely understand where you are coming from, and that you are frustrated with these sorts of nagging questions. I do not consider myself “holier” than other people, in fact I wish I could be at peace with my faith and simply be completely enveloped in God’s mercy. I “know” and recognize that I can never be perfect in His sight but that He calls me to be his child nonetheless. But there is a disconnect between what I “know” in my mind, and the constant fear and anxiety that I constantly feel. I know that these thoughts are illogical, but they simply do not go away, and so I go to confession at least every other day to feel “clean.” But it is hard to feel “clean” when you believe that everything you do will land you in hell, even when you “know” from a moral/theological/logical standpoint that it is simply not the case. I use CAF to express my concerns because it is hard to talk about them to anyone in person, because they are embarrassing I am afraid of exhausting everyone around me. I’m not trying to be difficult, and I am sorry if I am frustrating people on this forum, but sometimes it helps if I can work things out with others instead of ruminating over them by myself.

 

[Bonnie]

I can’t tell you how many times I accidentally called a beloved teacher in school, “mom”…

I’ve done something similar. I’m so used to sending e-mails to my kids signed “Love & God bless, Mom” that I do the same to others. So far nobody has been offended thinking I’m trying to be their mother.

 

[John_of_Woking]

Scrupulosity. Your life will be a living hell unless you find a good confessor and obediently bare your soul to him. I would also see a counsellor. I am praying for you. I am also crippled by this condition

 

[porthos11]

I definitely understand where you are coming from, and that you are frustrated with these sorts of nagging questions. I do not consider myself “holier” than other people, in fact I wish I could be at peace with my faith and simply be completely enveloped in God’s mercy. I “know” and recognize that I can never be perfect in His sight but that He calls me to be his child nonetheless. But there is a disconnect between what I “know” in my mind, and the constant fear and anxiety that I constantly feel. I know that these thoughts are illogical, but they simply do not go away, and so I go to confession at least every other day to feel “clean.” But it is hard to feel “clean” when you believe that everything you do will land you in hell, even when you “know” from a moral/theological/logical standpoint that it is simply not the case. I use CAF to express my concerns because it is hard to talk about them to anyone in person, because they are embarrassing I am afraid of exhausting everyone around me. I’m not trying to be difficult, and I am sorry if I am frustrating people on this forum, but sometimes it helps if I can work things out with others instead of ruminating over them by myself.

This is classic scrupulosity. Trying to work it out with “others” is not going to help or work. There’s really only one person you should work this out with: a good confessor. None of us on the forums, as in none, can help you or other scrupulous posters. In fact, all we’ll end up doing is probably increase your pain even more because of the conflicting answers.

Once you’ve found your confessor, you must obey him, never second-guess his judgment, and believe everything he says. Your trust and obedience to him must be unconditional and unquestioning.

 

[thistle]

So today at Divine Liturgy we had a “novena” to some of our saints. During the novena we had a chance to send up our petitions to these saints. There was a “pause” in the priest’s prayers so to speak. During one of those “pauses” I said “Lord” in my head. Then I stopped what I was saying, because I realized what I said sounded awkward and possibly idolatrous and then said something along the lines of “pray for us…” Now that I think of it I might have called this saint “Lord.” I do not believe that this saint is our Lord, for we have only one Lord, Jesus Christ. Am I in grave sin because of this or did I make a non-sinful mistake?

You CANNOT sin by accident. You simply made a mistake. Sounds like you are scrupulous.

 

[Ignatius]

So today at Divine Liturgy we had a “novena” to some of our saints. During the novena we had a chance to send up our petitions to these saints. There was a “pause” in the priest’s prayers so to speak. During one of those “pauses” I said “Lord” in my head. Then I stopped what I was saying, because I realized what I said sounded awkward and possibly idolatrous and then said something along the lines of “pray for us…” Now that I think of it I might have called this saint “Lord.” I do not believe that this saint is our Lord, for we have only one Lord, Jesus Christ. Am I in grave sin because of this or did I make a non-sinful mistake?

No sin, but I would work diligently to break the habit of using Lord for anyone but God. That’s not a habit you went to become ingrained.