Accident or Providence?

  • Thread starter Thread starter underdog
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Divine Providence means that God provides all good things for His creatures. He Who knows everything from the beginning - every action, thought, word, work, event, and creature - designed the world in a perfect state, perfect in that it is perfect for us all, it is on a journey of perfection with us, and it is designed in the Image of the Son, reflecting the glory of God. Some would say the world is relatively perfect, but I say it is perfect according to God’s Will; others would say God could have created a better world, but I say, given the free-will of man and whom God created and what it si He caused to be, the world will soon be better, indeed, perfect to such an extent that man will finally say, “it is consummated!”
Thank you for your definition. Here’s another one from the book Trusting God by Jerry Bridges.

God’s providence is His constant care for and His absolute rule over all His creation for His own glory and the good of His people.
 
This is actually a topic close to my heart:)

There is a famous image of our lady, which we call “Our Lady of Providence.”

Here is a prayer to our Lady of Providence, from This link:

campus.udayton.edu/mary/questions/yq/yq74.html
Prayer to Our Lady of Providence

Let us ask Our Lady of Providence, Mary most holy, who is the refuge of sinners, the consolation of the afflicted, and athe help of Christians, to assist us in all our necessities.

Litany of Our Lady of Providence

God the Creator of heaven and earth, have mercy on us.
God the son, Redeemer of the world, have mercy on us.
God the Holy Spirit, have mercy on us.
Most Holy Trinity, Divine Providence, have mercy on us.
Our Lady of Providence, mother of grace and mercy, pray for us.
Our Lady of Providence, help of the sick, pray for us.
Our Lady of Providence, hope of the oppressed, pray for us.
Our Lady of Providence, star of the sea, pray for us.
Our Lady of Providence, tower of David, pray for us.
Our Lady of Providence, queen of the home, pray for us.
Our Lady of Providence, model of disciples, pray for us.
Our Lady of Providence, mother of the Church, pray for us.
Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world, spare us O Lord.
Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world, hear us O Lord.
Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world, have mercy on us.
Pray for us, Our lady of Providence, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.
O God, whose ever-watchful Providence rules all things, we humbly implore you through the prayer of the Blessed Virgin Mary, mother of your son, to remove from us whatever is harmful and to bestow on us only that which will be helpful. We ask this through Jesus Christ, your son, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever. Amen.

Adapted for a novena prior to the Feast of Our Lady of Providence (Saturday preceding the third Sunday in November). Ecclesiastical approval 1983.

Short answer: Catholics most assuredly do believe in the divine providence of God:)
I can see you do indeed believe in Providence. However, it seems your lady is in control of God’s creation. This is not divine providence if your lady is a creature and not the Creator. Maybe you believe in Lady Providence. Please share more with me.
 
His grace allows for good and bad.

Are you saying that God is the source of evil or that in His Infinite Love He allows for evil (aka…disobedience to His Will)?
Scripture proclaims to us that God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all. And Scripture teaches us that God cannot be tempted by evil. God cannot do all things, because it is impossible for God to do evil, or sin. I just posted the Scripture, but I did not interpert it for you. Here’s that same passage plus two others. I keep hearing that the Bible is a Catholic book. I sure love that Catholic book, don’t you?

Lamentations 3:37-38

Who has spoken and it came to pass,
unless the Lord has commanded it?
Is it not from the mouth of the Most High
that good and bad come?

Daniel 4:17

" ‘The decision is announced by messengers, the holy ones declare the verdict, so that the living may know that the Most High is sovereign over the kingdoms of men and gives them to anyone he wishes and sets over them the lowliest of men.’

James 4:15

Instead, you ought to say, “If it is the Lord’s will, we will live and do this or that.”
 
I can see you do indeed believe in Providence. However, it seems your lady is in control of God’s creation. This is not divine providence if your lady is a creature and not the Creator. Maybe you believe in Lady Providence. Please share more with me.
It seems that once again you have failed to read what is in front of you, and instead defer to the script that has been beaten into your head in the guise of education.

If you could manage to wrench that beam in your eye out for just a moment (I know it’s difficult to do when you’ve spent so long denying that is there), you might notice the three short words at the end of each line,* pray for us*. Do we ask the Creator to pray for us? Not generally.

Perhaps you failed to realize a great deal of the prayer is directed to God? If so, perhaps it would be wise to read the prayer again (assuming you have actually read it)

Our Lady of Providence, mother of grace and mercy, pray for us.
Our Lady of Providence, help of the sick, pray for us.
Our Lady of Providence, hope of the oppressed, pray for us.
Our Lady of Providence, star of the sea, pray for us.
Our Lady of Providence, tower of David, pray for us.
Our Lady of Providence, queen of the home, pray for us.
Our Lady of Providence, model of disciples, pray for us.
Our Lady of Providence, mother of the Church, pray for us.
Pray for us, Our lady of Providence, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ
 
It seems that once again you have failed to read what is in front of you, and instead defer to the script that has been beaten into your head in the guise of education.

If you could manage to wrench that beam in your eye out for just a moment (I know it’s difficult to do when you’ve spent so long denying that is there), you might notice the three short words at the end of each line,* pray for us*. Do we ask the Creator to pray for us? Not generally.

Perhaps you failed to realize a great deal of the prayer is directed to God? If so, perhaps it would be wise to read the prayer again (assuming you have actually read it)

Our Lady of Providence, mother of grace and mercy, pray for us.
Our Lady of Providence, help of the sick, pray for us.
Our Lady of Providence, hope of the oppressed, pray for us.
Our Lady of Providence, star of the sea, pray for us.
Our Lady of Providence, tower of David, pray for us.
Our Lady of Providence, queen of the home, pray for us.
Our Lady of Providence, model of disciples, pray for us.
Our Lady of Providence, mother of the Church, pray for us.
Pray for us, Our lady of Providence, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ
Did you know that the Bible reveals that both the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ interceds and prays for each believer in Christ?

Romans 8

26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because [6] the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, [7] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

God’s Everlasting Love

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be [8] against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33 Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. [9] 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36 As it is written,

“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
This is a topic that was inspired by another thread. Did blind fate determine for all of us to discuss things? Do accidents happen in God’s world? How about the life of Joseph, or Job in regards to this topic. Do accidents happen in God’s world, or do you believe in divine providence?

http://austin.about.com/library/graphics/ss-2004-underdogdwarves.jpg

I will listen to all views including Ashley’s view.
I believe in Divine Providence. Thats why I want to be a catholic.
Why don’t you?
 
I believe in Divine Providence. Thats why I want to be a catholic.
Why don’t you?
Do you believe in Lady Providence, or do you believe in divine providence? Please give me your definition of providence.
 
Divine Providence means God can do what he wills, no matter what underdog wills.
 
Divine Providence means God can do what he wills, no matter what underdog wills.
That’s not a discussion to learn about Our Sovereign God. How can you guys believe in divine providence and free will at the same time? What does the Apostle James tell us in regards to providence? When most Catholics cannot respond to Scripture, then you guys tend to personally attack me. Just re-read the posts.
 
So, you rather have the Lady of Providence pray for you instead of the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ interceding for you? Who is the Lady of Providence anyways?
Wow. Have you ever taken a course in logic? Maybe you should do that. This is an incredibly condescending and manipulative response. If you were in court, you would be chastised by the judge for asking a question like that.

The answer is no, but not just no; no, and how insulting that you would find it acceptable to reach that conclusion.

How would you feel if you asked your brother to pray for you and I accused you of wanting your brother’s intercession INSTEAD OF GOD’S?

The Blessed Mother is a supportive presence. We turn to her and ask her to pray with us as we address the Father sometimes, and sometimes we address God alone, and sometimes we ask the Blessed Mother for her support and intercession alone. I never address her before and in place of God.

It is insulting that you feel comfortable projecting your prejudiced assumptions onto me.
 
That’s not a discussion to learn about Our Sovereign God. How can you guys believe in divine providence and free will at the same time? What does the Apostle James tell us in regards to providence? When most Catholics cannot respond to Scripture, then you guys tend to personally attack me. Just re-read the posts.
Why is Divine Providence in conflict with free will?
 
Why is Divine Providence in conflict with free will?
Do you believe God is Sovereign, or do you believe man is sovereign? Free will means man is sovereign, or at least we are saying man is sovereign in salvation. What is your uderstanding of providence?
 
Wow. Have you ever taken a course in logic? Maybe you should do that. This is an incredibly condescending and manipulative response. If you were in court, you would be chastised by the judge for asking a question like that.

The answer is no, but not just no; no, and how insulting that you would find it acceptable to reach that conclusion.

How would you feel if you asked your brother to pray for you and I accused you of wanting your brother’s intercession INSTEAD OF GOD’S?

The Blessed Mother is a supportive presence. We turn to her and ask her to pray with us as we address the Father sometimes, and sometimes we address God alone, and sometimes we ask the Blessed Mother for her support and intercession alone. I never address her before and in place of God.

It is insulting that you feel comfortable projecting your prejudiced assumptions onto me.
I took Ashley off my ignore list, and have put you on my ignore list. You are the only one that is being ignored on my list. I will not fight hostile and rude people on this site.
 
Do you believe God is Sovereign, or do you believe man is sovereign? Free will means man is sovereign, or at least we are saying man is sovereign in salvation. What is your uderstanding of providence?
My understanding of God’s providence is apparently not yours.
Man is creation. Not creator.
God is able to do anything, in spite of what little he reveals he has done with man. Free will is most certainly not in conflict with Divine Providence. God will not force anyone to do anything. He can load them up with grace if he sees fit, he can do other things he sees fit with any person HE sees fit to do so with.
But, if a person resists his grace…:eek:
 
I took Ashley off my ignore list, and have put you on my ignore list. You are the only one that is being ignored on my list. I will not fight hostile and rude people on this site.
Thats hasty. Remember, this is a belief that has a history with many christians before you. Because it is something that so many for so long hold you must be a bit more understanding when someone comes here and says, hey- you were all wrong. And posts a bunch of comics that give the impression you are making catholics out to be in a comic strip, as Jack Chick has done.
You do realize if she posted that way at the site I cant name here- with comics like you do- she would be banned in a matter of minutes.
 
I took Ashley off my ignore list, and have put you on my ignore list. You are the only one that is being ignored on my list. I will not fight hostile and rude people on this site.
That’s unfortunate, because I think my point is really important. I have seen lots of Protestants come here and do the same thing, and I truly believe it represents a really manipulative way of using Christianity. I also think it is a toxic way of relating to people. When I say something, I expect to be given the respect of being listend to, and not distorted.

I am not hostile unless someone is first hostile with me. When you twist my words and do not listen to me, you are being hostile to me. My response back to you is then direct, whereas you are manipulative and indirect in your hostility.

I would rather be an honest and direct person who is sometimes wrongly accused of inordinate hostility than someone who is wrongly prejudiced and who projects their own issues onto others (by distorting communication).
 
Thats hasty. Remember, this is a belief that has a history with many christians before you. Because it is something that so many for so long hold you must be a bit more understanding when someone comes here and says, hey- you were all wrong. And posts a bunch of comics that give the impression you are making catholics out to be in a comic strip, as Jack Chick has done.
You do realize if she posted that way at the site I cant name here- with comics like you do- she would be banned in a matter of minutes.
You’ll be surprised how first century, 2nd century, 3rd century, etc… Christians believe in divine providence like I have tried to share. The first Christian creed in the church was “Jesus is Lord” meaning that He is sovereign and Lord over all.
 
You’ll be surprised how first century, 2nd century, 3rd century, etc… Christians believe in divine providence like I have tried to share. The first Christian creed in the church was “Jesus is Lord” meaning that He is sovereign and Lord over all.
🤷

I told you the two are not in conflict, the burden of proof is on you to clarify how they are. They are not.
See below:

My understanding of God’s providence is apparently not yours.
Man is creation. Not creator.
God is able to do anything, in spite of what little he reveals he has done with man. Free will is most certainly not in conflict with Divine Providence. God will not force anyone to do anything. He can load them up with grace if he sees fit, he can do other things he sees fit with any person HE sees fit to do so with.
But, if a person resists his grace…
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top