Accidental or intelligent design

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lemondiesel

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This is not some paper I wrote for a class, copy and pasted, then posted. I have put heavy thought into this post. I understand that it mentions evolution, but please read before making an accusation. Whether you think this is a hippy stoner thought or not, I feel like I have provided ideas for civil discussion. Ban if you must.

History shows us that everything happened the way it did to pave the way for human beings. If catastrophic events didn’t happen, dinosaurs would still be around and mammals would never be allowed to dominate. Or monkeys might not have migrated out of Africa. We wouldn’t even have the moon, which slammed into Earth billions of years ago. There is no doubt that the development of humans also correlated to environmental changes. But if you think of it in that way, life evolved with the Earth’s changes, but for humans, it was suppose to play out that way. Everything happens the way it should continuously, until it is no longer capable of doing so.

This way of living mirrors the characteristics of atoms, the very building blocks of reality. They go about their existence, following rules, which described these characteristics. They move about until they bond with others, or are transformed into energy. The very existence of the universe implies that at least one intelligent life form will emerge, because no matter what, we are here. Earth was in the comfort zone, which provided an environment for certain chemical reactions to gradually create a self-replicating molecule, which thrived in the conditions. Eventually it grew to the max of its capacity and some events caused it to drastically decline, which lead it to either remain self-replicating or resort to replicating with other molecules leading to eukaryotes.

Changing subject for second. Planets are allowed the best conditions for life when they fall in the comfort zone with the sun. Sure ideas like Jupiter’s moon Titan having life due to frictional heat orbiting the planet, but it only makes it more difficult. Any planet that is covered by water with continental drifts and volcanic eruptions could give rise to forms of life. To even evolve into intelligent life would take billions of years of constant change, with a continually changing environment.

Humans depict this change. The brain, heart, organs, senses, these things show the very characteristics by which life ‘knew’ it needed in order to live on Earth. Being blind makes it difficult, and the animals that are show their weakness and limited ability. Perhaps because those first molecules needed heat, sensed and reacted to heat, that the eyes may resemble reacting to this light, just in a different form. I mean it’s not the eye just boom formed as this perfect form able to see. Like all things, it went through steps of evolution. Many land animals need eyelashes as it helps to keep dust out and keep the eye moist. I mean the ability of sight is miraculous, but it doesn’t do much good if you can’t focus on other objects in your sight. So two eye visions were brought together, able to focus on a single point. This creates an advantage, because now things like depth perception are a possibility. Things can now become 3D rather than two 2D. The other senses follow suit; to allow for interaction in this reality and improve the chances of survive. We reflect these eukaryotes, as our ‘self-preservation’ comes through mating and having offspring. I mean think of the thousands of species that breed only with the strongest, they just ‘know’ the strongest have a better chance at survival and that their offspring will have those characteristics.

(CONTINUED ON POST 2)
 
Can we agree that at least the development of life could possibility be accident? Hypothetically speaking of course, and don’t include human beings. Perhaps by some random events that caused a chain reaction of progressions, the big bang happened. Everything gradually found longer stabilization. Stars gathered balls of rock in their gravitational pull. The ones fortunate enough to land in the comfort zone have a chance to provide the conditions for life. We know at least one did. Either we are miraculous from extremely unlikely conditions or a common thing throughout the universe. This could have been entirely accidental.

But we are no ordinary species. We have cognitive ability with complex language and philosophical abilities. Was everything created and happened the way it did to allow us this ability? Hopefully we can all at least agree that despite personal ideologies, mankind awoke in history. At some point, our ancestors began objectively noticing reality. If this were by accident, it would have to come through some chemical reaction in the brain. Probably the most probable scientific way would be through change in diets and/or stoned ape theory. The body naturally creates DMT, one of the most powerful hallucinogenic drugs. Why would it need this function other than put a species into sleep/dreaming or relaxation of the body upon death? Also, certain plants go in certain areas due to the environmental conditions. Is it really outrageous to think that an early cognitive species desperate to eat came across some natural mushrooms and gave it a chance? What if this psychedelic trip opened a new aspect of the species mind, and so he continued to eat them out of enjoyment and spreading it among others. What if this paved the way to recognition of night and day, with philosophical thought to why they changed? Rather than just merely looking for a certain animal that you know to eat, you categorize them.

But what if it was suppose to be that way? What if the big bangs product was suppose to be humans? If one has faith, it seems positive that everything was created for us, because we are so special. If things happened differently, including right now in our daily lives, we wouldn’t not experience the events, which mold us into who we are. The intelligent designer would already know every event that was going to happen to us, therefore knowing who we will turn out to be upon death. And if the intelligent designer created everything for us and I, then he already knew everyone that would come into reality. Yet the ID would know everything, from the beginning, to now, to the end. But this would assume that the universe was created out of purpose. If every individual is that purpose, then we existed as forethought outside of existence, but is that a separate reality? Are the characters in our own dreams real, or are they just creations that resemble something in reality? It is silly to think that a person in my dreams is real, living in a dreamland. They are mere manifestations taking place in the mind.

Our mind is a gradual step product of experiences and an entity created from the entire body system. The components of the body play a part in the chemical releases and reactions in the brain. Yet why can we not say a similar statement to the universe? Every atom plays a part to the existence, while gravity and polarization spaces everything out in the universe. Could we really say with certainty that the universe just boomed into existence and then was instantly complex? There had to have been utter chaos before a harmony came to be. There were unstable stars quickly exploding, not leaving any time for planets to develop. But until it reaches harmony, it continues to change and trying different ways.
 
Our mind is a gradual step product of experiences and an entity created from the entire body system. The components of the body play a part in the chemical releases and reactions in the brain.
If our mind is a product of **chemical **releases and reactions in the brain how can we possibly have insight into anything? :confused:
 
If our mind is a product of **chemical **releases and reactions in the brain how can we possibly have insight into anything? :confused:
I had no patience to read the whole text.
But I took the small part you analised. If your mind is a product of our brain, the elephants and whales must have such minds !!!
 
I had no patience to read the whole text.
But I took the small part you analised. If your mind is a product of our brain, the elephants and whales must have such minds !!!
Let me guess, your lack of patience comes from lack of knowledge? Don’t bother posting if you are going to skip the entire purpose of the thread, just to spew out a garbage statement. Our minds, the cognitive philosophical side, derives from language, a complex system. Have you ever thought what it would be like to live your life without any language? What if you couldn’t even narrate inside your head? You wouldn’t just stop existing, you would just be perceiving reality in a different way. (through feelings, emotions, etc.) You don’t even look at situations like elephants gathering to mourn the death of an elder, or the use of tools by monkeys, or even the extreme influence humans have on dog behavior.

So, before you come in just to copy what someone else has already said, read the original post. If it is too long or annoying for you to read, just don’t bother posting. Quit trolling the thread. I am not a mean guy, but seriously, you provided nothing to this discussion. You fail to see that there are two distinct “Minds.” One, which we share with life, is described in the original posts. The other, which you can come to if you would have read it, is a Mind set derived from complex language.
 
First of all, I agree with what you have said- to an extent, and to what I understood of your post.

Excuse my ignorance, but I don’t see how everything you have pointed out could give evidence to anything BUT intelligent design? I don’t see how something so perfect could have been accidental. If you wouldn’t mind clarifying, it would be greatly appreciated!

Evolution is not against the teachings of the Catholic Church, contrary to popular believe. Who is to say that God did or did not use the big bang to create life as we know it? Basically, I’m not sure of the point you are trying to make. Are you saying that chemical changes that have occurred over milleniums suggest that human beings are a result of an accidental or happenstance procedure?

On another account though, I totally agree- what you have said about the world’s existance ultimately for the human species is a profound statement. It is supported by so much of what we know.

Thanks for your post! It was refreshing and thought provoking.
 
First of all, I agree with what you have said- to an extent, and to what I understood of your post.

Excuse my ignorance, but I don’t see how everything you have pointed out could give evidence to anything BUT intelligent design? I don’t see how something so perfect could have been accidental. If you wouldn’t mind clarifying, it would be greatly appreciated!

Evolution is not against the teachings of the Catholic Church, contrary to popular believe. Who is to say that God did or did not use the big bang to create life as we know it? Basically, I’m not sure of the point you are trying to make. Are you saying that chemical changes that have occurred over milleniums suggest that human beings are a result of an accidental or happenstance procedure?

On another account though, I totally agree- what you have said about the world’s existance ultimately for the human species is a profound statement. It is supported by so much of what we know.

Thanks for your post! It was refreshing and thought provoking.
Facepalm.
Catholics believe in a theistic or God guided Evolution. So it follows that it is not against the teachings of the Catholic Church.
Evolution is not dependent on God guidance at all.
This is how ID steps in and pretends to be all sciency and stuff, but it is not.
It’s a dressed up creationist ascience pig with lipstick on.
 
Excuse my ignorance, but I don’t see how everything you have pointed out could give evidence to anything BUT intelligent design? I don’t see how something so perfect could have been accidental. If you wouldn’t mind clarifying, it would be greatly appreciated!
IF i were to believe in some form of a Creator, leaning towards ID would be the only rational explanation, in my opinion.
Facepalm.
Catholics believe in a theistic or God guided Evolution. So it follows that it is not against the teachings of the Catholic Church.
Evolution is not dependent on God guidance at all.
This is how ID steps in and pretends to be all sciency and stuff, but it is not.
It’s a dressed up creationist ascience pig with lipstick on.
I find that the two terms are completely opposite. Creationism implies purpose, and would follow the guidelines of a God guided Evolution. Intelligent Design, in my opinion, is developed through random events and evolution, but through these random events, an intelligent life form was developed. It just so happens that we are human beings. ID claims no scientific foundations, it merely and most importantly follows the guide line that everything happens the way it should in the present to play out for the future. Whereas creationism follows that divine interaction led to humans, as it is impossible for the building blocks of complex life and DNA to eventually create a cognitive, rational and philosophical being. ID implies life was inevitable, regardless of divine intervention.
 
there doesn’t need to be a purpose. why not focus on the here and now just in case, rather than because we know we have to.
 
there doesn’t need to be a purpose. why not focus on the here and now just in case, rather than because we know we have to.
If there is no purpose we cannot focus on anything! As you rightly point out, **we simply do what we have to **- without having any choice…
 
IF i were to believe in some form of a Creator, leaning towards ID would be the only rational explanation, in my opinion.
Indisputable!
Intelligent Design, in my opinion, is developed through random events and evolution, but through these random events, an intelligent life form was developed.
Intelligent Design is the antithesis of random evolution.
ID implies life was inevitable, regardless of divine intervention.
Why?
 
I do agree that I cannot truly question existence, accidental or planned, because it did start out of no where and i would certainly think that it would have the ability to end out of no where as well.
If there is no purpose we cannot focus on anything! As you rightly point out, **we simply do what we have to **- without having any choice…
Why can’t we simply just be a narator?
Intelligent Design is the antithesis of random evolution.

Why?
ID for me explains why random evolution exists. ID for me, also includes that everything happens for a specific reason, therefore creation happened to give way to an intelligent being. That is all though. It is a way to address that humans may have some kind of purpose, while also addressing the need for a First Cause.
Inner vision which leads to** hindsight, foresight, analysis, synthesis, under**standing, comprehension, metaphysics and metamorphosis! :whistle:
Matter, just by simply existing, is organized in some pattern. Matter, in order exist, must be organized in some way, otherwise there would just be one single unit of matter in the entire universe. Therefore, everything that exists in the universe is based around some sort of pattern. I agree that existence of a pattern does not imply intelligence, because existence itself relies upon the presence of a pattern. So would you mind telling me this inner vision doesn’t derive from this pattern? Is it really illogical to say that unconscious matter created consciousness?
 
I do agree that I cannot truly question existence, accidental or planned, because it did start out of no where and i would certainly think that it would have the ability to end out of no where as well.
How do you **know **it started out of nowhere?
  • there is no purpose we cannot focus on anything! As you rightly point out, **we simply do what we have to **- without having any choice…
Why can’t we simply just be a narrator?

A narrator is not an actor. He is impotent and insignificant…
  • Design is the antithesis of random evolution.Why?
ID for me explains why random evolution exists. ID for me, also includes that everything happens for a specific reason, therefore creation happened to give way to an intelligent being. That is all though.

That is more than enough!
It is a way to address that humans may have some kind of purpose, while also addressing the need for a First Cause.
I agree
  • vision which leads to** hindsight, foresight, analysis, synthesis, under**standing, comprehension, metaphysics and metamorphosis!
Matter, just by simply existing, is organized in some pattern. Matter, in order exist, must be organized in some way, otherwise there would just be one single unit of matter in the entire universe. Therefore, everything that exists in the universe is based around some sort of pattern.

Not necessarily. It could be completely chaotic.
I agree that existence of a pattern does not imply intelligence, because existence itself relies upon the presence of a pattern. So would you mind telling me this inner vision doesn’t derive from this pattern? Is it really illogical to say that unconscious matter created consciousness? /quote]Not illogical but extremely farfetched that dust can become aware of itself…
 
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