According to Muslims, Jesus is a very poor teacher

[iaskquestions]

Whoever told you that he is? He lied. It’s not your fault, but you really should investigate and try to determine the truth.

Whoever told you that he is not God? He lied. It’s not your fault, but you really should investigate and try to determine the truth!

 

[Sister_Amy]

Whoever told you that he is not God? He lied. It’s not your fault, but you really should investigate and try to determine the truth!

LOL. That’s clever.

In the words of my good convert friend who I’ll call Khadeeja, “The Gospel made me Muslim!”

Timothy, Titus, Paul and Luke were not disciples of Jesus. Just to point that out in case you didn’t know. So referring to letters even allegedly written by such authors (of course I think they’re all anonymous authors anyway) cannot be included among writings by actual disciples of Jesus–of which there are none existing today.

The Gospel (Injeel) of course refers only to the preachings and message of Jesus. You can even refer to the canonical Gospels to validate the use of this word. Jesus was preaching the Gospel–it is not a collection of books organized long after his mission.

But anyway, nice try. Thanks for your courtesy.

 

[iaskquestions]

What did Jesus really preach? It certainly wasn’t Trinity.

Jesus preached a lot of things, including the Trinity.

“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” (Matthew 28:19)

Notice, very carefully, he didn’t say, “in the names” but “in the name”. As I told you earlier, they all share the same divine name I AM. Therefore, Jesus used the singular word “name” and not “names”.

I showed you how Jesus revealed he is God (the Son of God the Father). Jesus himself said that he and the Father are one that is they are united.

Regarding the Holy Spirit, look what he says,

“And whoever says a word against the Son of man (Jesus) will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” (Matthew 12:32)

That’s an amazing statement! If anyone speaks against Jesus, the Son of God, he will be forgiven, but not if he speaks against the Holy Spirit! Who then is the Holy Spirit?

“And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.” (John 14:16-17)

“When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.” (John 16:13)

 

[iaskquestions]

Timothy, Titus, Paul and Luke were not disciples of Jesus. Just to point that out in case you didn’t know.

Paul (original name Saul) was indeed** an apostle appointed by Jesus himself**!

"And he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?” And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.” ( Acts 9:4-5)

"Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Anani’as. The **Lord said to him **in a vision, “Anani’as.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.” And the Lord said to him, “Rise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire in the house of Judas for a man of Tarsus named Saul; for behold, he is praying, and he has seen a man named Anani’as come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.” But Anani’as answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to thy saints at Jerusalem; and here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call upon thy name.” But the Lord said to him, “Go, for **he is a chosen instrument of mine **to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel” (Acts 9:10-15)

Pual reaffirms this when he says

“For this gospel **I was appointed a preacher and apostle **and teacher” (2 Tim 1:11)

He was also confirmed by Peter and James.

“but on the contrary, when **they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel **to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised (for he who worked through Peter for the mission to the circumcised worked through me also for the Gentiles), and when they perceived the grace that was given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised;” (Gal 2:7-9)

And if you still insist upon the original 12 apostles, did I not show you quotes from John?

 

[Sister_Amy]

It looks more to me like you are inferring a Trinity from Jesus’s teachings, and some teachings which aren’t even his. (I reject, by the way, any teaching after the alleged crucifixion… just fyi.)

So yet again, nice try. But sorry, I won’t buy.

 

[Sister_Amy]

If Jesus was no longer alive when Paul was “called,” and if Paul never actually learned under Jesus, then Paul was never a disciple of Jesus. I don’t really care if Paul says otherwise. Jesus was not on earth.

And I really don’t think that John was written by an actual disciple named John even though it was attributed to him. Just seems pretty illogical to me.

 

[iaskquestions]

This does not tell Muslims to read the Gospel. It says that God revealed the Gospel. My question still stands.

Fine. So it does imply that you are to follow the gospel, doesn’t it? And if that has to happen, then **God himself has to make sure that the gospel is not perverted and corrupted **in any way. So did God fail to preserve his gospel? Did Christ fail in his promise where he said, “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.” (Matthew 16:18). Did Christ fail to build his church?

 

[Verisimilitude]

Whoever told you that he is not God?

Muslims claim the Quran and hadith are valid because ‘actual people’ have left a chain of authenticity to support it but reject applying a name to the Gospels like Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John, or letters from Paul for some reason.

Maybe you can get a Muslim to answer why these names are important/valid/trusted to support the words and deeds of Mohammed:
It is narrated on the authority of Yahya b. Ya’mur
Abu Huraira
Talha b. 'Ubaidullah
Anas b. Malik
Abu Ayyub Ansari
Yahya b. Umayya said
Umar b. al-Khattab
Ibn 'Abbas
Hafs b. 'Asim
Alqama
Urwa b. Zubair
Abu Wa’il
Alqama
Umar b Abu Salama
…

 

[iaskquestions]

It looks more to me like you are inferring a Trinity from Jesus’s teachings, and some teachings which aren’t even his. (I reject, by the way, any teaching after the alleged crucifixion… just fyi.)

You people deny the crucifixion, which is a historical fact that even a lot of atheists don’t deny. Jesus himself said he was to be crucified.

“Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man will be delivered to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn him to death, and deliver him to the Gentiles to be mocked and scourged and crucified, and he will be raised on the third day.” (Matthew 20:18-19)

I gave you all the references from Jesus’ teachings. If you deny the crucifixion despite it being a historical fact, then I cannot help you.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Fine. So it does imply that you are to follow the gospel, doesn’t it?

Nope. It says that God revealed the Gospel. To Jesus. And who is supposed to follow the Gospel? The Christians.

But since it was revealed by the same God, it naturally has many similarities to the Qur’an. But Muslims do not follow the Gospel, they follow the Qur’an, the last, the final message which is for all of mankind, and has been preserved! Cool, huh?

And if that has to happen, then **God himself has to make sure that the gospel is not perverted and corrupted **in any way.

Says who? Was the Torah preserved, prevented from being corrupted in anyway? Let me ask you this: at the time of Jesus, were the Jews following the Torah correctly? In spirit and principle, were they following it correctly or had they lost the essence of it, the meaning of it, etc?

So did God fail to preserve his gospel? Did Christ fail in his promise where he said, “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.” (Matthew 16:18). Did Christ fail to build his church?

That whole passage makes absolutely no sense to me at all because of Matthew 16:20. Don’t tell anyone? Weirdness.

I don’t see God saying that he will preserve the Gospel in that passage either… must be missing something.

 

[iaskquestions]

If Jesus was no longer alive when Paul was “called,” and if Paul never actually learned under Jesus, then Paul was never a disciple of Jesus.

Jesus revealed the gospel to Paul! Are you putting limits on Jesus’ power?

And I really don’t think that John was written by an actual disciple named John even though it was attributed to him. Just seems pretty illogical to me.

Again, that’s your problem and we cannot really help it if you deny historical facts.

 

[Sister_Amy]

You people deny the crucifixion, which is a historical fact that even a lot of atheists don’t deny. Jesus himself said he was to be crucified.

“Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man will be delivered to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn him to death, and deliver him to the Gentiles to be mocked and scourged and crucified, and he will be raised on the third day.” (Matthew 20:18-19)

I gave you all the references from Jesus’ teachings. If you deny the crucifixion despite it being a historical fact, then I cannot help you.

There are some people who deny even the existence of Jesus. I am not one of them. I deny that Jesus was actually crucified. And frankly I wouldn’t say that the fact atheists support you is much consolation in matters of faith… scary that you even said it.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Jesus revealed the gospel to Paul! Are you putting limits on Jesus’ power?

Limits on Jesus’s power? I don’t believe Jesus is God… try to remember that. If Jesus can reveal the Gospel to Paul a few years after he’s left the earth, why can’t he reveal the Gospel to me, and I can come preaching to you? Is that what happens to preachers and priests? Do they get the Gospel revealed to them by Jesus directly?

Again, that’s your problem and we cannot really help it if you deny historical facts.

Okay, well, thanks for trying anyway.

 

[inJESUS]

Muslims don’t think Jesus was a poor teacher, nor do they think Jesus’s actual disciples were poor students.

Where does the Qur’an tell Muslims to read the Gospel?

it tells Christians, doesn’t it?

 

[inJESUS]

Because the Qur’an says Jesus is not God.

ok

Because Jesus never said he was God, and his disciples never said Jesus was God.

 

[iaskquestions]

Nope. It says that God revealed the Gospel. To Jesus. And who is supposed to follow the Gospel? The Christians.

God did not “reveal the gospel to Jesus”. Jesus revealed the gospel to the world.

But Muslims do not follow the Gospel, they follow the Qur’an, the last, the final message which is for all of mankind, and has been preserved! Cool, huh?

The message of the Quran perverts the message of the gospel. So it cannot be from God. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life.” (John 14:6) There is no other way and your Quran is a showing a false way.

Was the Torah preserved, prevented from being corrupted in anyway? Let me ask you this: at the time of Jesus, were the Jews following the Torah correctly? In spirit and principle, were they following it correctly or had they lost the essence of it, the meaning of it, etc?

Indeed the Torah was preserved! Where was the “Torah” corrupted? There were some people who were corrupt and others who were righteous. (John 1:47)

That whole passage makes absolutely no sense to me at all because of Matthew 16:20. Don’t tell anyone? Weirdness.

I don’t see God saying that he will preserve the Gospel in that passage either… must be missing something.

Jesus told them to hide the fact that he was the Messiah until he rose from the dead. (cross reference Matthew 17:9). If all the people had known before the resurrection that he was the Messiah, then they would not allow him to be crucified. See Peter’s reaction.

“From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised. And Peter took him and began to rebuke him, saying, “God forbid, Lord! This shall never happen to you.”” (Matthew 16:21-22)

But after the resurrection he himself told them to preach the gospel to the world. (Matthew 28:19)

 

[Angelos]

Because the Qur’an says Jesus is not God. Because Jesus never said he was God, and his disciples never said Jesus was God. Whoever told you that he is? He lied. It’s not your fault, but you really should investigate and try to determine the truth. What did Jesus really preach? It certainly wasn’t Trinity.

How can you expect us to deny the Gospels of the first century and the teachings of the Church solely because a guy that wants to make himself the last prophet wants so? How can we believe in a book written six centuries after Jesus in a place away from Palestine and by people who never met Jesus?

This does not tell Muslims to read the Gospel. It says that God revealed the Gospel. My question still stands.

Why did God reveal the Injeel then? Just for the sake of revealing it? According to many verses in the Koran, Injeel is one of the books of Allah. Where in the Koran does Allah ask Muslims to read ONLY the Koran and deny the former revelations?

 

[inJESUS]

Nope. It says that God revealed the Gospel. To Jesus. And who is supposed to follow the Gospel? The Christians.

so why ask us to read the Gospel if it is not actually existing in some form, and if it is corrupt?

But since it was revealed by the same God, it naturally has many similarities to the Qur’an. But Muslims do not follow the Gospel, they follow the Qur’an, the last, the final message which is for all of mankind, and has been preserved! Cool, huh?

 

[iaskquestions]

Limits on Jesus’s power? I don’t believe Jesus is God… try to remember that.

I do believe Jesus is God and he did reveal his gospel to Paul.

If Jesus can reveal the Gospel to Paul a few years after he’s left the earth, why can’t he reveal the Gospel to me, and I can come preaching to you? Is that what happens to preachers and priests? Do they get the Gospel revealed to them by Jesus directly?

There are indeed a few elect people in the world whom Jesus has revealed his gospel directly. He reveals himself according to his own mercy and plans. Even I wanted a private revelation once, but didn’t get. But he chooses people according to his own will. I would advise you to read this book.

**The Torn Veil - Gulshan Esther ** (A Muslim Pakistani girl to whom Jesus revealed himself)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulshan_Esther

And we must always remember Jesus’ words,

“Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.” (John 20:29)

Also, he has now **passed on his authority to his disciples **and now it is mainly their job to proclaim the gospel.

“Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” (John 20:21)

And he has also given a warning.

“He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.” (Luke 10:16)

 

[inJESUS]

If Jesus was no longer alive when Paul was “called,” and if Paul never actually learned under Jesus, then Paul was never a disciple of Jesus.** I don’t really care if Paul says otherwise**

. Jesus was not on earth.
we wouldn’t care either but it was not only Paul who claimed it but the other apostles. So your argument cannot come from someone who actually read the NT or Church fathers.

And I really don’t think that John was written by an actual disciple named John even though it was attributed to him. Just seems pretty illogical to me.