Accuracy of the Scriptures Concerning Miracles and the Game of Telephone

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NM505StKate said:
Problem here. The Holy Spirit is part of God correct? Yes it is. So then since God is perfect the Holy Spirit is also. That seems like a fair assumption. Since the Holy Spirit is perfect any inspiration given by it is also perfect. So it can be assumed that since the inspiration is perfect the text written by the inspiration should also be perfect.
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No. The Holy Spirit is GOD! Your statement reeks of heresy!
 
NM505StKate said:
Here is the thing. We assume God is real and that God is perfect in all things. Why would a perfect being have imperfections in a story about its own son?

Here is a nice list of contradictions.

thethinkingatheist.com/page/bible-contradictions
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It must be very frustrating dealing with people who have known about these contradictions all their lives and don’t find them a problem at all.

I have no answer as to why God chose to work with imperfect humans to carry His love to the world. But, perhaps, He didn’t want to have His work done by perfect little puppets. Perhaps, He finds joy in having us work through these problems ourselves. Perhaps, like a good parent, He allows us to fall, fail at times, and stumble in order to run and walk.
 
HelenRose said:
It must be very frustrating dealing with people who have known about these contradictions all their lives and don’t find them a problem at all.

I have no answer as to why God chose to work with imperfect humans to carry His love to the world. But, perhaps, He didn’t want to have His work done by perfect little puppets. Perhaps, He finds joy in having us work through these problems ourselves. Perhaps, like a good parent, He allows us to fall, fail at times, and stumble in order to run and walk.
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That is fine if only the concept of punishment wasn’t there. Being punished for finite crimes here on Earth. Would a good parent punish a child for a victimless crime?
 
NM505StKate said:
Honestly how? Is my question that far gone?
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Kind of.

God created a church through Jesus. It doesn’t mean people in the church are perfect like God. He gave us free will.

God uses people as instruments to do His will - e.g. as written by Paul and displayed throughout history. He’s still not imparting his perfection or omnipotence.

He even made people in his image. Still, people are not God.

The scripture writers, who were leaders of the church and inspired by the Spirit, are not God. They are God’s human instruments. They knew Jesus Christ and/or his apostles and may even be associated with miracles.

They were inspired to write, preach, and teach despite persecution and threat of death.

The logic you proposed does not represent the relationship between God, people, and the Church.
 
Thorolfr said:
The Holy Spirit is one of the three persons (prosopon in Greek or persona in Latin) or hypostases of God.
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Still it is incorrect to refer to the Holy Spirit as “part of God!” This is a grave error.
 
NM505StKate said:
That is fine if only the concept of punishment wasn’t there. Being punished for finite crimes here on Earth. Would a good parent punish a child for a victimless crime?
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Yes. In every crime the victim is the person who commited the crime.
 
NM505StKate said:
That is fine if only the concept of punishment wasn’t there. Being punished for finite crimes here on Earth. Would a good parent punish a child for a victimless crime?
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My approach to God is different than what you are describing. I trust in God’s Mercy and Justice. His knows the heart of each and everyone of us. He knows what the intent of our heart is.

Take a simple action of a child. Spilling milk is wrong.

A child is unaware the there is milk on the table. He knocks over the glass of milk. - Pure accident. He is sorry and says so.
A parent tells a child to settle down or he will knock over the glass of milk… The child does not settle down and he spills the milk. - Spilling the milk is still an accident but could have been avoided. He is sorry and says so.
A child walks into the room sees the glass of milk and deliberately picks it up and spills it on the floor. - Intent to do wrong. He sneers and laughs.

God knows our intent. He knows when we do wrong by accident, by foolishness or by deliberate intent.
It is the deliberate intent to separate ourselves from God that brings about the natural consequences of our actions.

The natural consequence of this is eternity without God. This choice is made with full knowledge and intent. I believe that there are those who would rather exist without God than to exist with Him. We make this choice on Earth. God gives us every opportunity to choose. He is not a tyrant.

I don’t believe that an abused child will be held to the same standard as a child raised in a loving home. God is merciful. He knows our intent. He knows our life stories. He knows when we are faced with this choice.

A highly intelligent, well brought person who can reason well, will be held to a higher standard than someone who has been down trodden and those who have been harmed through life. This is why Christ chose to spend more time with the poor and ignorant.

Let me ask you. If you were standing before God right now and since you are now aware of the choice God has given you, would you want to spend eternity with Him?
 
HelenRose said:
It must be very frustrating dealing with people who have known about these contradictions all their lives and don’t find them a problem at all.
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So since there are contradictions in scripture and different versions of the same stories with different details (and both versions can’t both be correct), and the writers of these different versions are all inspired by God, why did God allow for these differences to arise? Is it because the writers didn’t hear God’s inspiration properly or misunderstood what the Holy Spirit was telling them or is it because these differences in the details are not important to God and He doesn’t care about the details?
 
Thorolfr said:
So since there are contradictions in scripture and different versions of the same stories with different details (and both versions can’t both be correct), and the writers of these different versions are all inspired by God, why did God allow for these differences to arise? Is it because the writers didn’t hear God’s inspiration properly or misunderstood what the Holy Spirit was telling them or is it because these differences in the details are not important to God and He doesn’t care about the details?
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Perhaps the details He thought were important are there. Perhaps He is not a bean counter. Perhaps He has a wonderful imagination. Perhaps He loves a good story.

Personally I find more truth of human nature in the Bible than in a psychology text book.

Take the story of Jonah for instance. There poor Jonah is. Sitting underneath the tree because God did not rain fire and brimstone on Nineveh. We could argue forever as to whether or not that story is historical fact … but no one can argue that the description of Jonah captures human nature perfectly. Jonah found God inconsistent. He did not like it one little bit. It made him rather peevish.
 
HelenRose said:
Perhaps the details He thought were important are there. Perhaps He is not a bean counter. Perhaps He has a wonderful imagination. Perhaps He loves a good story.

Personally I find more truth of human nature in the Bible than in a psychology text book.

Take the story of Jonah for instance. There poor Jonah is. Sitting underneath the tree because God did not rain fire and brimstone on Nineveh. We could argue forever as to whether or not that story is historical fact … but no one can argue that the description of Jonah captures human nature perfectly. Jonah found God inconsistent. He did not like it one little bit. It made him rather peevish.
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But surely when people were recording stories about the life of Jesus in the gospels, they were trying to describe what really happened, not just trying to tell a good story (i.e. a fictional story) in which the details are unimportant and it doesn’t make any difference if some of the details are wrong.
 
Thorolfr said:
But surely when people were recording stories about the life of Jesus in the gospels, they were trying to describe what really happened, not just trying to tell a good story (i.e. a fictional story) in which the details are unimportant and it doesn’t make any difference if some of the details are wrong.
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I find the truth in the inconsistencies. If every one of these people saw the events exactly the same way, I would figure that some 200 years after the events a group of people got together, went through these accounts and meticulously rewrote them in order to present a narrative that suited them.

As it was, they honestly kept the witnesses’ accounts.

These books were not golden plates that came down from heaven. They are the work of honest men who wrote what they saw, what they heard and what they believed.
 
HelenRose said:
These books were not golden plates that came down from heaven. They are the work of honest men who wrote what they saw, what they heard and what they believed.
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I have no doubt that people wrote what they heard and what they believed. But I doubt that what they heard and believed was always an accurate account of what really happened. And if doctrines and dogma are in some cases based on incorrect or distorted memories of what Jesus really taught, isn’t that a problem?
 
Thorolfr said:
I have no doubt that people wrote what they heard and what they believed. But I doubt that what they heard and believed was always an accurate account of what really happened. And if doctrines and dogma are in some cases based on incorrect or distorted memories of what Jesus really taught, isn’t that a problem?
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Not really. Not to me anyway.

When you think about a person - any person, you learn more about him or her by watching how other people respond to that person.

Take an ordinary man. His son will look at this man differently than will his wife. A friend, a brother, a father, an uncle or a sister will each have a different perspective and different stories about this person. They will recall events differently. They will see the details differently. But after putting all this together, a richer and more honest evaluation can be made about who this person is.

I have to go now. It has been good talking with you. May God guide you.
 
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