Achbp O"Brien On Ordinations

[HagiaSophia]

"The bishop overseeing a Vatican-ordered inspection of U.S. seminaries said there is no room there for men with strong homosexual inclinations. And an apostolic visitation that begins this month will seek to determine whether seminaries are enrolling them.

“I think anyone who has engaged in homosexual activity, or has strong homosexual inclinations, would be best not to apply to a seminary and not to be accepted into a seminary,” Archbishop Edwin O’Brien, who’s coordinating the visits of more than 220 seminaries and houses of formation, told the Register…"

"…In a 2002 speech, Pope John Paul II linked the abuse scandals with seminary instruction and called for the exclusion of seminary candidates with observable “deviations in their affections.”

“It would be lamentable if, out of a misunderstood tolerance, they ordained young men who are immature or have obvious signs of affective deviations that, as is sadly known, could cause serious anomalies in the consciences of the faithful, with evident damage for the whole Church,” the Holy Father said.

His words echoed a 1961 instruction to the superiors of religious communities on “Careful Selection and Training of Candidates for the States of Perfection and Sacred Orders.”
…"

ncregister.com/articulo.php?artkod=NTU%2d

 

[Michael_Welter]

This is the kind of thing that should go without being said. It seems obvious to me that a man with stong homosexual tendencies should not be a priest. In fact, any man with strong sexual passions probably should not be a priest. St. Paul makes that clear.

 

[Fortiterinre]

We talked about this on the “Ordaining Priests with SSA” thread below, thank you for the exact quote.

 

[La_Chiara]

Wow, that is a fascinating article. I wonder how the national press will view this. The New York Times is extremely critical of all things Catholic, and particularly about the “priest abuse scandal”. But the Times is also a strong supporter of homosexual rights, including gay marriage. I suspect the Times will not be at all happy at this focus on ridding homosexual candidates from Catholic seminaries (and by extension, from the priesthood).

 

[HagiaSophia]

I noted that in the article he said:

“The Holy See should be coming out with a document about this,” Archbishop O’Brien said.

We keep hearing that one is forthcoming, then it’s not forthcoming, then it’s before the Synod, then after the Synod…so only heaven knows at this point,

But I did consider it a “fair word of warning” to seminary rectors about one of the things the team will be looking for when they show up.

I was also surprised not to read more in the secular press about his statement…maybe in the aftermath of Katrina it hasn’t permeated the newsrooms yet.

 

[La_Chiara]

HagiaSophia:

I was also surprised not to read more in the secular press about his statement…maybe in the aftermath of Katrina it hasn’t permeated the newsrooms yet.

Maybe…or maybe the newsrooms don’t know what to do with it. Are we going to be getting articles about how openly homosexual men are being denied their constitutional rights by being excluded from Catholic seminaries? I can just see it now [shudder]–just like the secular, liberal press on “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” of several years ago. And that firestorm was under Clinton–now we have Ratzinger as Pope and Bush as President. Maybe it is just as well that the secular press hasn’t found this story. But it may just be until they clear the pages of Katrina.

 

[fix]

Here is what one commentator said about this story:

**O’Brien on the Visitation

**That sentence (perhaps intentionally) doesn’t parse, and O’Brien leaves his brother bishops plenty of wiggle room, even though it sounds on first reading as if he’s taking a tough stance. Yet the question of admittance of homosexual seminarians, important though it is, is largely a smokescreen. Focusing on admission reinforces the pretense that the seminary faculty and administration are generally healthy as they are now – the same faculty and administration that produced for us the St. Luke’s Institute grads of 1990-2005. Dead wrong. The scrutiny should focus on the men who screened, admitted, taught, counseled, promoted, and dismissed the seminarians entrusted to them – because that’s where the villainy occurred. The test of success will be whether (and which) influential heads roll as a consequence of the visitation…

cwnews.com/offtherecord/offtherecord.cfm

What do you think of the analysis?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

fix:

Here is what one commentator said about this story:

What do you think of the analysis?

Fair.

 

[La_Chiara]

JKirkLVNV:

Fair.

“Fair” as in “fair vs. unfair”
OR “Fair” as in “Excellent/Good/Fair/Poor”?

 

[PreVatII]

If history teaches us anything about the last 45 plus years in the Church, I predict that the aforementioned visits to U.S. seminaries will lead to a white-wash. I also believe that the final document from Rome on the issue of homosexuality and the priesthood, if in fact one does hit the street, will go round and round the subject and the REAL issues, and in the end, will change nothing!

If only Rome ran things like the U.S. Marine Corps: Fall in line, get with the program or get out!

Semper Fi

 

[JKirkLVNV]

“Fair” as in “fair vs. unfair”
OR “Fair” as in “Excellent/Good/Fair/Poor”?

I mean that the article took account of the fact that it really is a bad idea to ordain homosexuals, but also said that the problem in seminary formation went deeper than that.

 

[Bella3502]

So what is the proposed procedure to weed them out? Do you ask the man in private if he has strong homosexual feelings, and hope that he answers truthfully?

What about the nuns? Is someone going to ask the same questions in the convent?

What if they don’t tell the truth? Shouldn’t these questions be asked before the enter the convent or seminary?

 

[HagiaSophia]

Bella3502:

So what is the proposed procedure to weed them out? Do you ask the man in private if he has strong homosexual feelings, and hope that he answers truthfully?

What about the nuns? Is someone going to ask the same questions in the convent?

What if they don’t tell the truth? Shouldn’t these questions be asked before the enter the convent or seminary?

I believe if you read the entire article you may find some of the ways that the teams will be pursuing finding out what is going on. For instance:

"Archbishop O’Brien said that in the new visitations, interviews will be conducted on an anonymous basis in order that truth can be told without fear of retribution.

“The seminarians themselves will be key players to this whole thing,” Archbishop O’Brien said. “They’ll be questioned individually, and if we get 50 out of 60 saying this was the case when I came in and this is the way it is now, there’s reason for credibility there.,”

While seminarians are in formation they are intensively counseled, spiritually guided and examined all along the way for their continued progression not just scholastically, but spiritually and psychologically. By the time “graduation” approaches, their classmates and their spiritual direectors know them pretty well. The candidate knows himself pretty well at that point also. A good formation will not only produce good and well trained priests but will help the discernment process for those who tried it, but decided the life is not suitable for them.

I do believe however that a complete overhaul of the Vocation Directors positions and how they ae being performed is long overdue for an intensive review, as well as the seminary formation masters.

 

[Bella3502]

HagiaSophia:

I believe if you read the entire article you may find some of the ways that the teams will be pursuing finding out what is going on. For instance:

"Archbishop O’Brien said that in the new visitations, interviews will be conducted on an anonymous basis in order that truth can be told without fear of retribution.

“The seminarians themselves will be key players to this whole thing,” Archbishop O’Brien said. “They’ll be questioned individually, and if we get 50 out of 60 saying this was the case when I came in and this is the way it is now, there’s reason for credibility there.,”

While seminarians are in formation they are intensively counseled, spiritually guided and examined all along the way for their continued progression not just scholastically, but spiritually and psychologically. By the time “graduation” approaches, their classmates and their spiritual direectors know them pretty well. The candidate knows himself pretty well at that point also. A good formation will not only produce good and well trained priests but will help the discernment process for those who tried it, but decided the life is not suitable for them.

I do believe however that a complete overhaul of the Vocation Directors positions and how they ae being performed is long overdue for an intensive review, as well as the seminary formation masters.

What about the nuns??

 

[mgy100]

Like any bureaucray this study will result in no change. It will have recomendations and conclusions that will be left up to another study that will be conducted at a later date. No one will pay attention to the findings, nothing will be done, and a committee will be formed to discuss what can be done, as to which another subcommittee will be formed to discuss what the main committee discovered they can discuss. In the end, nothing will change. And there will probably be another committee formed to inform that another study will take place in 5 years.

 

[Fortiterinre]

The Chicago Sun Times carried a short article on this topic this morning, quoting O’Brien that “most” homosexual seminarians would face too many problems in an all-male environment but some had always done well too. The word “most” was repeated.

 

[HagiaSophia]

Bella3502:

What about the nuns??

What about them?

Nuns/sisters like order priests do not report to the bishop of a diocese –

Sisters I believe, come under the purview of the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life in Rome, who would be dealing with Mother Generals of the Order and through her to the various regional respresentatives of their respective orders.

Since this visitation concerns primarily diocesan seminary formation which is overseen by the bishop of the diocese, observations, recommendations and good and bad findings will be sent to or discussed with him. The general sense of things will also be conveyed back to the Vatican and may or may not result in some changes depending on what it contains.

 

[otm]

fix:

Here is what one commentator said about this story:

What do you think of the analysis?

I think the Brittish would say “Spot on”.

 

[CatholicCid]

Bella3502:

So what is the proposed procedure to weed them out? Do you ask the man in private if he has strong homosexual feelings, and hope that he answers truthfully?

What about the nuns? Is someone going to ask the same questions in the convent?

What if they don’t tell the truth? Shouldn’t these questions be asked before the enter the convent or seminary?

If the man say, did not answer truthfully, especially to a superior… That’d be another reason why he might want to take a little more time to discern

 

[otm]

Bella3502:

So what is the proposed procedure to weed them out? Do you ask the man in private if he has strong homosexual feelings, and hope that he answers truthfully?

What about the nuns? Is someone going to ask the same questions in the convent?

What if they don’t tell the truth? Shouldn’t these questions be asked before the enter the convent or seminary?

Ah! And there is the rub. Who, prey tell, is doing the asking?