ACLU sues state police

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ACLU sues state police
The Rhode Island Affiliate of the American Civil Liberties Union yesterday filed a federal lawsuit against the state police, alleging racial profiling and violation of the constitutional rights of 14 Guatemalan nationals during a July traffic stop that led to their detention by immigration officials.

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“***The citizenship status of the plaintiffs is really irrelevant to this lawsuit.*These were individuals who were in a van that was stopped for a minor traffic violation. The question is whether police have a right to detain individuals for no other reason than the way they look …”

They where stopped for a minor traffic violation…they got busted in the process for being illegals…what the heck is the ACLU doing???
 
the ACLU was allegedly founded to protect the bill of rights. I propose we round them all up, whether or not we have to use profiling to do it, and lock them together in an auditorium and drill them on the bill of rights and the entire Constitution until they know it by heart and understand it, since none of their actions in the last 20 yrs reveals the remostest familiarity with that document.
 
I side with the ACLU on this one. What’s the probable cause for the immigration bust? Driving while dark-skinned?
 
Richardols said:
I side with the ACLU on this one. What’s the probable cause for the immigration bust? Driving while dark-skinned?
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Are the police not allowed to stop a vehicle that is violating traffics laws if the occupants are dark skinned?
 
JimO said:
Are the police not allowed to stop a vehicle that is violating traffics laws if the occupants are dark skinned?
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Re-read my post. I’m not questioning the probable cause for the traffic stop. I’d like to know what the probable cause is for the immigration arrest. They are two separate things.
 
Richardols said:
Re-read my post. I’m not questioning the probable cause for the traffic stop. I’d like to know what the probable cause is for the immigration arrest. They are two separate things.
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Got it. Sorry.
 
Richardols said:
I side with the ACLU on this one. What’s the probable cause for the immigration bust? Driving while dark-skinned?
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legal immigrants /green card holders are required at ALL times to carry their identification(green cards etc.) with them…as to how they got an immigration bust outta a traffic stop…more than liekly they had FAKE documents and got busted!
 
In Southern California, DWB (Driving While Brown or Black) is seen be some officers as “probable cause” for a stop. They then will actually find some other reason to arrest…obscured winshield (splattered bug)…suspicion that someone in the back seat was not properly belted down…under the influence (coffee, asprin, prescription drug). There have been instances where people were taken and dropped across the border without due process because they had no “green card”; but American-born persons of any ethnic background don’t have such a document.
 
mystified said:
In Southern California, DWB (Driving While Brown or Black) is seen be some officers as “probable cause” for a stop. They then will actually find some other reason to arrest…obscured winshield (splattered bug)…suspicion that someone in the back seat was not properly belted down…under the influence (coffee, asprin, prescription drug). There have been instances where people were taken and dropped across the border without due process because they had no “green card”; but American-born persons of any ethnic background don’t have such a document.
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but my understanding was that these folks did not have proper documentation…hence they should of been drooped off at the border;) if they where here ILLEGALLY!
 
Karin said:
but my understanding was that these folks did not have proper documentation…hence they should of been drooped off at the border;) if they where here ILLEGALLY!
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Well, according to the article,
The lawsuit alleges that Chabot first confirmed that Tamup’s license and registration were valid and that he had no criminal record.
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“Chabot nonetheless proceeded to open the doors of the vehicle, and by utilizing Tamup as a translator, requested all the passengers to also provide identification,” according to an ACLU synopsis of the case. When some failed to do so, Chabot then asked them to produce documents “demonstrating their U.S. citizenship.”
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If I have a broken taillight, I expect to be pulled over sooner or later. Once they’ve verified my license and registration and written a ticket, however, I don’t expect to be interrogated as to my citizenship status, nor to have my passengers interrogated on those issues. Unless there is just cause.
 
Digitonomy said:
Well, according to the article, If I have a broken taillight, I expect to be pulled over sooner or later. Once they’ve verified my license and registration and written a ticket, however, I don’t expect to be interrogated as to my citizenship status, nor to have my passengers interrogated on those issues. Unless there is just cause.
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You have certain rights and certain responsibilities as Permanent Residents…
***Permanent Resident Card
**The Permanent Resident Card, Form I-551, is issued to all Permanent Residents as evidence of alien registration and their permanent status in the US. The card must be in your possession at all times. This requirement means that you are not only required to have a currently valid Form I-551 at all times, but also that you must carry your currently valid Form I-551 on your person at all times. *

Section 264 of the Immigration and Nationality Act provides that, “Every alien in the United States shall be issued a certificate of alien registration or an alien registration receipt card in such form and manner and at such time as shall be prescribed under regulations.” It also states, “Every alien, eighteen years of age and over, shall at all times carry with him and have in his personal possession any certificate of alien registration or alien registration receipt card issued to him. Any alien who fails to comply with [these] provisions shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.” The specific requirements and procedures for applying to renew an expiring permanent resident card are set forth in the Code of Federal Regulations [CFR] at 8 CFR § 264.5.
uscis.gov/
 
That’s all fine and good, but on what basis did they challenge these people on their immigration status? If they had no legitimate reason to do so, I think the “fruit of the poison tree” legal doctrine may apply. But then, I’m no lawyer.
 
Digitonomy said:
That’s all fine and good, but on what basis did they challenge these people on their immigration status? If they had no legitimate reason to do so, I think the “fruit of the poison tree” legal doctrine may apply. But then, I’m no lawyer.
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my understanding of this is (I too hold a green card by the way)…is that any law enforcement officer can at any time ask to see my I-551 documentation , that is why we are required to carry these papers at ALL times…failure to produce these documents when asked for them is a CRIME…not having these papers to start with is a CRIME, it is called being an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT and the USA really does frown on those:)
 
Karin said:
any law enforcement officer can at any time ask to see my I-551 documentation , that is why we are required to carry these papers at ALL times…failure to produce these documents when asked for them is a CRIME…not having these papers to start with is a CRIME, it is called being an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT and the USA really does frown on those:)
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That all sounds correct, but that’s from your end, and deals with your responsibilities. There’s no question these people broke the law. The question is whether the officer followed the law in making the arrest.

Similar situation: Suppose I keep a bazooka in my pantry. I’m breaking the law. If the police barge into my house, seize the weapon, and arrest me, they can’t use anything, including the illegal weapon, as evidence against me, unless they had a valid search warrant.

Back to this case, why have I never been asked about my immigration status, while the plaintiffs in this case were? Maybe the the officer had a legitimate reason to challenge these immigrants, in which case all is well. That has yet to be proven.
 
Karin said:
my understanding of this is (I too hold a green card by the way)…is that any law enforcement officer can at any time ask to see my I-551 documentation , that is why we are required to carry these papers at ALL times…failure to produce these documents when asked for them is a CRIME…not having these papers to start with is a CRIME, it is called being an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT and the USA really does frown on those:)
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Yes I agree IF you are an immigrant. But what if you are a US citizen who happens to be Hispanic. I am such a person. My family has been here for four hundred plus years but our brown skin may cause us to look illegal. Back around the 1950’s many Hispanics were round up and taken to Mexico even if they were not Mexican. So if I cannot produce documentation of my citizenship does that mean i should be taken to Mexico? I have never been to Mexico so what should I do? I think that these type of action should be watched, as there are many stereo types and many prejudices.
 
I don’t know about this one. On the one hand, a club van full of people who don’t speak English (except the driver) is suspect. However, they got pulled over for not using their turn signal while changing lanes? In L.A., they could pull over 90% of the drivers for that. Maybe that offense is policed more in Rhode Island. Otherwise, it sounds like they may have been pulled over because they looked suspect. That is not the way it is supposed to be done.
Digitonomy said:
That all sounds correct, but that’s from your end, and deals with your responsibilities. There’s no question these people broke the law. The question is whether the officer followed the law in making the arrest.

Similar situation: Suppose I keep a bazooka in my pantry. I’m breaking the law. If the police barge into my house, seize the weapon, and arrest me, they can’t use anything, including the illegal weapon, as evidence against me, unless they had a valid search warrant.

Back to this case, why have I never been asked about my immigration status, while the plaintiffs in this case were? Maybe the the officer had a legitimate reason to challenge these immigrants, in which case all is well. That has yet to be proven.
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I think you are worrying a bit too much. You may get asked for documentation, if you are in a van with 14 Spanish-speaking immigrants. But a person speaking perfect American-accented English? I doubt it. Police aren’t stupid.

The most that may happen to you is that you might be pulled over if “profiled.”
st_lucy said:
Yes I agree IF you are an immigrant. But what if you are a US citizen who happens to be Hispanic. I am such a person. My family has been here for four hundred plus years but our brown skin may cause us to look illegal. Back around the 1950’s many Hispanics were round up and taken to Mexico even if they were not Mexican. So if I cannot produce documentation of my citizenship does that mean i should be taken to Mexico? I have never been to Mexico so what should I do? I think that these type of action should be watched, as there are many stereo types and many prejudices.
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