Acolyte

[jimmy_eblin]

What is a truly instituted acolyte in America?

 

[edward_george]

An instituted acolyte is a man who has been installed by a bishop to the ministry of acolyte. There are two such instituted ministries in the Church (not just in America, but everywhere)–to wit, lector and acolyte. Most people serving in the liturgical functions of reader and altar server are not actually installed to the ministry of acolyte, not that this is not allowed. Typically the only people in the US who are installed to these ministries are men on the way to the priesthood or diaconate.

-ACEGC

 

[Usige]

Nonexistent.

As Edward_George says the ministries of instituted acolyte and lector are rarely seen as a terminal state (at least in the US). My understanding was that they were not intended to just be stepping stones on the way to ordination. The intent was to provide a way to answer the call to minister the altar outside of the clerical state. In many ways these ministries are much like the diaconate was in the Latin church for most of the last 1000 years, something to be passed through rather than a calling in of itself.

 

[Suslar]

Right, Lector and Acolyte are minor orders on the way to major orders - deaconate or priesthood (or bishop).

The role does still exist as only those under orders (including acolyte) can perform certain functions - such as purification of sacred vessels.

 

[UncleBill]

Right, Lector and Acolyte are minor orders on the way to major orders - deaconate or priesthood (or bishop).

The role does still exist as only those under orders (including acolyte) can perform certain functions - such as purification of sacred vessels.

Minor orders are not just for those moving thru to major orders…they are orders unto themselves…they are real orders…one can stay an acolyte for ever.

 

[edward_george]

Right, Lector and Acolyte are minor orders on the way to major orders - deaconate or priesthood (or bishop).

The role does still exist as only those under orders (including acolyte) can perform certain functions - such as purification of sacred vessels.

Actually, lector and acolyte are not minor orders anymore. With the Motu Proprio of Pope Paul VI Ministeria Quaedam, the minor orders were suppressed and replaced with two “instituted ministries,” lector and acolyte.

ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/p6minors.htm

-ACEGC

 

[Corki]

Nonexistent.

As Edward_George says the ministries of instituted acolyte and lector are rarely seen as a terminal state (at least in the US). My understanding was that they were not intended to just be stepping stones on the way to ordination. The intent was to provide a way to answer the call to minister the altar outside of the clerical state. In many ways these ministries are much like the diaconate was in the Latin church for most of the last 1000 years, something to be passed through rather than a calling in of itself.

Several years ago, the Pope called upon Bishops to revive the ministry of instituded acolyte for men who were not in preparation for the priesthood. We have them in our diocese, mostly in larger parishes.

 

[curlycool89]

Actually, lector and acolyte are not minor orders anymore. With the Motu Proprio of Pope Paul VI Ministeria Quaedam, the minor orders were suppressed and replaced with two “instituted ministries,”

:yup:

The minors orders no longer exist, they are now instituted ministries.

Technically and canonically, they are open to any men. Here in Canada, they are restricted to seminarians on the way to priesthood (usually those in theology, as opposed to those doing undergraduate work).

One problem (as I’ve heard from priests and other people) is how you would go about instituting people. How do you select? What do you do for training? Who’s going to pay for it? What happens if that person later leaves the faith? Instituted lectors and acolytes, in a way, should be seen as leaders in the parish too. What is their relationship with other readers and altar servers (non-instituted)? Are they “superior”? Do they go on the schedule with all the others, or do they get “dibs”?

For acolytes, it would also conflict with what many people see as a ministry for young men (like elementary/high school. Personally I think late high school or university is a good age, but I digress). You can’t institute people that young into an official canonical ministry, not when they’re not even at the age of majority!

The other major problem (that I’ve heard from priests) is in the definition: a ministry for men. Specifically men, and specifically excluding women. Lets be serious grown-ups here: at our parishes here there are many women who are readers and altar servers. Strictly speaking, reading and altar serving are not ministries that require an alter Christus (as are required in Holy Orders - deacon, priest, bishop), so it becomes a hard sell and hard justification without coming off as sounding like a misogynist (like 60s-style misogynist, where it was seen as an affront to a man if a women got into med-school because “she stole a man’s spot”. Whereas today, if a women gets in over a man, people recognize that she got in because she did better on the entrence requirements).

I’m just pointing out the real world issues here.

 

[YoungTradCath]

One problem (as I’ve heard from priests and other people) is how you would go about instituting people. How do you select? What do you do for training? Who’s going to pay for it? What happens if that person later leaves the faith? Instituted lectors and acolytes, in a way, should be seen as leaders in the parish too. What is their relationship with other readers and altar servers (non-instituted)? Are they “superior”? Do they go on the schedule with all the others, or do they get “dibs”?

For acolytes, it would also conflict with what many people see as a ministry for young men (like elementary/high school. Personally I think late high school or university is a good age, but I digress). You can’t institute people that young into an official canonical ministry, not when they’re not even at the age of majority!

I’m just pointing out the real world issues here.

All good questions and points.

How do you select, do training, pay for it, what if someone leaves the faith? These are all matters of prudence that can’t be nearly as difficult to sort out as dealing with a priestly vocations program, which every diocese manages to do. I’m sure every parish could do the whole acolyte/lector thing without too much paper pushing and stress. I think it would even be easier than EMHC training, which is almost universally something that requires recertification after a period, and a function that can only be performed in one or a few parishes/institutions by any given individual.

Are they superior, do they get “dibs” on serving? Legally, yes, that is my reading. In the same way that a cleric always has a right to distribute Holy Communion before any layperson–even if the cleric is not celebrating or concelebrating Mass–an instituted acolyte always has a right to serve before anyone else, and an instituted lector always has a right to read, even both readings (I think), before anyone else.

I’m not sure what you mean by conflicting with something that people perceive as a ministry for young men. Isn’t the whole point of Paul in Ministeria quaedam, or at least the subtext/stress/insinuation/whatever, that the use of these instituted ministries be a normal, everyday, commonplace, average fixture in Latin parish life? Perhaps Paul was using his MQ not only to reform the minor orders, but also to reform ministry at Mass as a whole. I think he was. Clearly the “reformed” Rites prefer the use of instituted acolytes and lectors over arbitrarily deputized laypeople within the liturgy. Paul surely did not intend for these ministries to be hidden away in seminaries.

The other part of your post, meh, I’m tired of squabbling about it…

 

[curlycool89]

How do you select, do training, pay for it, what if someone leaves the faith? These are all matters of prudence that can’t be nearly as difficult to sort out as dealing with a priestly vocations program, which every diocese manages to do. I’m sure every parish could do the whole acolyte/lector thing without too much paper pushing and stress.

Priests are a lot easier for that actually. Seminaries are fairly regulated in what they’re suppose to do and what degree is required.

Priests are also easier to deal with because being a priest can also be said to be their job. Lectors/acolytes are more like permanent deacons in that regard, they have a life outside of the parish. So does that mean we lesson the requirements even from permanent deacon because there is no ordination? It doesn’t seem so, because they are still expected to be leaders. But at the same time, will anyone go through if they require as much formation as a permanent deacon (frankly, as little as that is in some diocese)?

If we want to do it with laity, then you have to work around laity too. You can send a seminarian to school for X years and monopolize their life during formation because that’s just part of the vocation. You have to be much more flexible with laity, who will have other obligations (work, family, other community activities they are involved in such as KofC).

I think it would even be easier than EMHC training, which is almost universally something that requires recertification after a period, and a function that can only be performed in one or a few parishes/institutions by any given individual.

EMHC’s are not given the same distinction and respect though. Lectors and acolytes should be seen as leaders in the parish, while EMHCs fulfill more of a “practical” service.

I think the thing is that acolytes have to be more then just altar servers and lectors have to be more then just readers, that’s the main point (just like priests and deacons are more then just “preside/assist at Mass”). Frankly, if we’re just giving special titles to people to do the same work as altar servers and readers, then it’s really not worth all the trouble you have to go through, especially when the current system of deputizing people works well enough.

Are they superior, do they get “dibs” on serving? Legally, yes, that is my reading. In the same way that a cleric always has a right to distribute Holy Communion before any layperson–even if the cleric is not celebrating or concelebrating Mass–an instituted acolyte always has a right to serve before anyone else, and an instituted lector always has a right to read, even both readings (I think), before anyone else.

That was what I was thinking.

See, I’m not sure if most laity will be comfortable with something like that. How many times do we even see on these boards people being uncomfortable or mad with the same people always reading or altar serving or serving as an EMHC? People don’t like the fact that in some parishes it seems like we have cabals now. That uncomfortableness only becomes worse when the cabal becomes institutional.

If not controlled well, the institutional ministries could well become based on nepotism, or it being seen as a “reward” instead of it being almost a mini-vocation unto itself. That’s definitely not the impression we want to give. That would include anything like “you get to be a lector after serving in the parish for X years”. It’s not suppose to be a “promotion”.

It might be good in that case to start at the theory and progress from there. Why do we need acolytes and lectors (instead of altar servers and readers)? What is their position? What type of men should be in these ministries? Once you get the base theory down, then people can understand better rather than “just because we can”.

The other part of your post, meh, I’m tired of squabbling about it…

That I just wanted to point out so that we fully understand all the reasoning that is involved in the discussion. Personally I’m with you, I don’t really want to argue about it (we’ve all done that enough really). I just want people to know that people think this is an issue (and this has been brought up when I’ve talked to people about this topic) and we can’t just ignore that reality as if it didn’t exist.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Priests are a lot easier for that actually. Seminaries are fairly regulated in what they’re suppose to do and what degree is required.

Lectors/acolytes are more like permanent deacons in that regard, they have a life outside of the parish. So does that mean we lesson the requirements even from permanent deacon because there is no ordination? It doesn’t seem so, because they are still expected to be leaders.

EMHC’s are not given the same distinction and respect though. Lectors and acolytes should be seen as leaders in the parish, while EMHCs fulfill more of a “practical” service.

My point is that running an acolyte/lector formation program is financially and resourcefully easier than running a priestly vocations program. If a diocese can do the latter, it should be able to do the former. Also, in the same way that an acolyte’s or lector’s ministry is less difficult than a priest’s, and less important in the long run, we can easily say that an acolyte or lector becoming jaded and going rogue later is not as bad as a priest doing the same thing. We survived the 1970s priest exodus, we are surviving a crisis of marriage. I think we can survive a little [hypothetical] insurrection of [hypothetical] acolytes and lectors. There are plenty of men who, for whatever reason, do not have a vocation but who do feel a true calling to serve in a liturgical capacity. With Paul’s MQ, the Keys bound the Latin Church, in a sense, to the use of lectors and acolytes, so it is entirely plausible that God does legitimately call laymen to these minstries.

I think the thing is that acolytes have to be more then just altar servers and lectors have to be more then just readers, that’s the main point (just like priests and deacons are more then just “preside/assist at Mass”). Frankly, if we’re just giving special titles to people to do the same work as altar servers and readers, then it’s really not worth all the trouble you have to go through, especially when the current system of deputizing people works well enough.

Do they? It would certainly be good, but I do not think this is required, even implicitly, by MQ. I’m not saying it wouldn’t be a good idea, however. I think it is worth all the trouble, given that [hypothetically] you will end up with a superbly trained acolyte who can serve in all competencies–server, thurifer, crucifer, MC, etc.–and/or a superbly trained lector who can deliver the readings with great poise and elegance. (Nothing is worse than a reader who adds dramatic pauses every three words, or who stops at the end of each line, ugh…) I would limit the inherent function of acolytes and lectors to liturgical ministries. They should be experts in their respective tasks. They should not be expected, nor should they be barred from, participating in other parish activities, however. It would be bad to have little “Acolyte-Nephews” running around the parish.

See, I’m not sure if most laity will be comfortable with something like that. How many times do we even see on these boards people being uncomfortable or mad with the same people always reading or altar serving or serving as an EMHC? People don’t like the fact that in some parishes it seems like we have cabals now. That uncomfortableness only becomes worse when the cabal becomes institutional.

I’m not sure it’s the fact that the same people read over and over again, but more the fact that, very often, readers are poorly trained, at least in my own experience. If the person is trained well, and maintains a humble air, then I don’t see the problem.

If not controlled well, the institutional ministries could well become based on nepotism, or it being seen as a “reward” instead of it being almost a mini-vocation unto itself. That’s definitely not the impression we want to give. That would include anything like “you get to be a lector after serving in the parish for X years”. It’s not suppose to be a “promotion”.

True, it would have to be well managed.

It might be good in that case to start at the theory and progress from there. Why do we need acolytes and lectors (instead of altar servers and readers)? What is their position? What type of men should be in these ministries? Once you get the base theory down, then people can understand better rather than “just because we can”.
'Cause it’s preferential re: MQ?

Give me the same lectors and acolytes every day for the rest of my life for all I care, as long as they do their jobs superbly.

 

[Usige]

Several years ago, the Pope called upon Bishops to revive the ministry of instituded acolyte for men who were not in preparation for the priesthood. We have them in our diocese, mostly in larger parishes.

I thought I had seen something on the duties and requirements for instituted acolytes on the Archdiocese of Galveston-Houston’s website. I am glad to hear that these ministries are around in some places. I just wish we would see these ministries instituted in more places.

When we moved to our current diocese, one of my coworkers told me his parish had acolytes. I was surprised and was curious so I went with him one Saturday. During mass the priest was assisted by two women in alb and cassock. I asked him if the acolytes weren’t there that evening and he said “how could you miss them?” Seems they considered any adult that serves the altar is an acolyte. :doh2:I never could convince him that acolytes can only be men.

 

[Corki]

All good questions and points.

How do you select, do training, pay for it, what if someone leaves the faith? These are all matters of prudence that can’t be nearly as difficult to sort out as dealing with a priestly vocations program, which every diocese manages to do. I’m sure every parish could do the whole acolyte/lector thing without too much paper pushing and stress. I think it would even be easier than EMHC training, which is almost universally something that requires recertification after a period, and a function that can only be performed in one or a few parishes/institutions by any given individual.

I can only speak to the acolyte since we have those in our diocese. Selection is by volunteering with the recommendation of your pastor. The training is done by the diocese and I can’t imagine it would be very expensive.

I am pretty sure that the acolytes are instituted for a period of time and then renewed. So, if someone were to leave, they simply would not be renewed. And I believe they are stable to their parish not acolytes-at-large.

Are they superior, do they get “dibs” on serving? Legally, yes, that is my reading. In the same way that a cleric always has a right to distribute Holy Communion before any layperson–even if the cleric is not celebrating or concelebrating Mass–an instituted acolyte always has a right to serve before anyone else, and an instituted lector always has a right to read, even both readings (I think), before anyone else.

An instituted acolyte does not have any duties that would otherwise be done by the EMHC. They may serve as EMHCs but are still extraordinary, not ordinary ministers. The main practical role of the instituted acolyte is purifying the vessels after communion, something the EMHCs are not allowed to do. Other than that, their tasks are more likely to overlap with altar servers or MCs than with EMHCs.

 

[jimmy_eblin]

The reason for this question I noticed at our parish altar servers reposing the Holy Eucharist after communion. I asked our priest about this and he said he sometimes uses the emcees who are trained and instituted acolytes.I have seen women, men,young girls and boys repose JESUS after Holy Communion. This confuses me to who is an instituted acolyte.Fr.Grondin and Peggy Frye referred to GIRM #163 the priest is to repose Jesus after Holy Communion. At a mass there were two deacons and the priest and the two deacons purified the vessels and the priest sat down and the deacons handed to an altar server the remaining Hosts to be put in the Tabernacle. Is this ok? I asked a Dominican priest about this and he said this isnt right and the priest is just being lazy.This really bothers me and seems disrepectful to Jesus.