"Act like an adult and you'll be treated like one"

[DarkLight]

It’s mostly the in-person stuff that’s difficult. Especially given that one is has usually flown in and doesn’t have a hotel room, so escape options are limited. So I’d at least need to figure out a way to get around that.

And yeah, with work she got some odd ideas about me just being too timid to stand up for myself. When in fact she’d managed a pretty good job of simply banging up the facts and I wasn’t about to go after our poor department chair who’d been quite helpful simply because the higher-ups were being idiots. And honestly at that point really it wasn’t going anywhere quickly and I didn’t have the energy for a months-long battle, especially given the complete lack of utility that would have been for paying the rent that month.

 

[PaulGH]

Honestly part of it is so many of the behaviors she objects to seem very minor. My character matters, whether I act like a child or adult. The fact that I like playing pokemon, or sometimes do my hair in wednesday addams braids? Not so much. Yet it seems that the latter category often eclipses the former. It seems so dreadfully “grown up” in that peculiar way some children seem to have an awful horror of admitting they still like children’s games.

Playing Pokemon or braiding your hair aren’t the kind of behaviors I was thinking of, and I don’t think you should be treated like a child for sometimes enjoying activities that you enjoyed when you were a child. I love to build toy train track layouts for my kids, but I don’t think that makes me childish.

 

[Xantippe]

It’s mostly the in-person stuff that’s difficult. Especially given that one is has usually flown in and doesn’t have a hotel room, so escape options are limited. So I’d at least need to figure out a way to get around that.

I don’t think you need to do that until you have a different place to stay.

 

[maryjk]

DarkLight,
You need to give a more complete story here.

There have been numerous threads about the relationship you have with your mother, your parents.

It comes down to, unless things have changed, that you don’t really act like an adult with them.

Being treated like an adult isn’t about age. It is about *being *an adult.

Have things changed?

 

[Xantippe]

DarkLight,
You need to give a more complete story here.

There have been numerous threads about the relationship you have with your mother, your parents.

It comes down to, unless things have changed, that you don’t really act like an adult with them.

Being treated like an adult isn’t about age. It is about *being *an adult.

Have things changed?

Adults minimize the time they spend with people that treat them badly. That’s one of their main features.

 

[DarkLight]

DarkLight,
You need to give a more complete story here.

There have been numerous threads about the relationship you have with your mother, your parents.

It comes down to, unless things have changed, that you don’t really act like an adult with them.

Being treated like an adult isn’t about age. It is about *being *an adult.

Have things changed?

What am I supposed to do that I’m not doing, except not talk to them at all?

I don’t think she means or even really gets a lot of what she does. I’ve definitely minimized the time I spend there, but I’m not willing at this point to just cut off the relationship. But I’ve been getting frustrated since the sort of harsh boundary setting I’m learning seems to result in more confusion and determination on her part that I’m being childish.

 

[Sarcelle]

It seems that your mother is bound and determined to treat you like a child no matter what you do.

You may have to cut off contact with her so as to spare yourself the drama. She may be one of those people that thrive on confrontation. People like this are usually best avoided.

I know she is your mom but hopefully distance may serve to heal over time the rift between you.

This and prayer. Lots of prayer.

 

[Xantippe]

What am I supposed to do that I’m not doing, except not talk to them at all?

I don’t think she means or even really gets a lot of what she does. I’ve definitely minimized the time I spend there, but I’m not willing at this point to just cut off the relationship. But I’ve been getting frustrated since the sort of harsh boundary setting I’m learning seems to result in more confusion and determination on her part that I’m being childish.

You can always shorten each interaction or space out each interaction just a little more.

 

[EasterJoy]

I keep hoping there’s at least a “would you STOP that” option that doesn’t involve all the awkwardness of walking out the front door when she acts up. Especially as I’m not quite sure what the step after that would be?

That sounds very like something my mother would do though. She’s threatened to call my boss at work (who I promptly told if she did it’s not my fault).

Yes, there is. You quit taking her so seriously. When she treats you like a child, you crack a smile and say, “Nice try, Mother. That worked when I was a freshman in high school and you had the car keys. I’m an adult. You don’t have to like what I wear, but you are stuck with watching me wear it. If you’re not going to be gracious about it, that isn’t my problem. The 4th Commandment does not require letting your mother choose everything in your closet. Really. Check the Catechism. It isn’t in there. So you go on choosing the stuff that you wear in public, and I won’t tell you what the fashion police think, and you do the same for me.”

Then you talk about something else, but if she goes on and on you take it as if you are gathering material for your stand-up routine. Really, comedians make their living about commiserating about these kinds of little scenes. They can be funny, if you let them. They do not have to run your life. Let go of trying to train your mother, and you’ll be able to let go of her efforts to train you.

(Do you think bosses take phone calls from the mothers of employees seriously? Your boss will probably feel sorry for you. You aren’t in grade school. The “principal” does not have to worry about pleasing your mother.)

 

[maryjk]

What am I supposed to do that I’m not doing, except not talk to them at all?

You have indicated before that your parents are still paying for many of your needs. That you rely on them for health insurance and other things.

Many parents interpret financial autonomy as adulthood. If that is the case, they won’t treat you like an adult until you are self sufficient.

 

[EasterJoy]

You’re just going to have to learn to live without her respect.

Lots of people have parents who (in less hurtful ways) are not quite clear on the fact that their kids are all grown up. A couple of years ago, my FIL wanted to call our old landlord on our behalf to complain about the downstairs neighbor and his huge dog. The complaint would have been valid (neighbor was not picking up after the dog–gross!), but my husband was 40 at the time–he could call his own landlord if he wanted to.

Once you get used to momming or dadding, it’s hard to remember that it’s time to stop.

This is true, but with these two additions:

1. It is a good idea not to make “respect” a blanket all-or-nothing affair. You may have to learn to live with the idea that your mother does not respect your clothing choices. That doesn’t mean you have to conclude that she doesn’t respect anything you do or any of the choices you make. It just means that your mom is not graceful about it when she thinks you are wrong, and perhaps carries around the charming misconception that because you are inherently capable of perfection in her eyes, your every fault must be something you simply need to “grow out of.” (At least she still thinks you *could be *perfect, and not that you are so inherently pig-headed that your wrongness is something you could not grow out of! )
2. It is good for parents to remember that “mothering” does not include advocating on behalf of a child capable of advocating for herself or himself. It is better that your second-grader think himself capable of questioning the fairness of something his teacher does or his classmates do on his own than that he think you have to swoop in and protect him from all comers. If you aren’t pulling back on the protection sooner than your child wants you to do it, you probably aren’t doing it soon enough for his or her own good. When you teach them how to respectfully take issue with how you do things and which ways of disagreeing are not acceptable, you also teach your child how to approach differences with authority figures generally. This is training we need, just as surely as we need to know how to talk, read, write, and do math.

 

[underacloud]

Adults minimize the time they spend with people that treat them badly. That’s one of their main features.

Precisely!

And that’s what the OP needs to do, until mum learns to stop.

 

[revert_jen]

Well, what I want to stop is her lecturing and talking down to me. I don’t like being talked to like a child whenever I do something my mother doesn’t like.

I’m afraid that that’s possibly/probably something you will just have to deal with.

My mother does the same to me and I’ve been out of the house and financially independant for more than 15 years. We just can’t talk about politics (or to some extent religion, but that’s not quite so bad) because we have one of those kinds of conversation where instead of making any actual points in favor of her views, she just behaves as though she has made incontrovertable arguments and I’m just being too childish to acknowledge how rational the arguments (which she hasn’t actually made) are. There is a huge amount of sighing and condescension on her part. It used to drive me crazy.

Now I am just really careful to avoid bringing up those kinds of topics, and usually I manage to just keep a lid on myself and change the subject when she says something that could degrade into one of those kinds of conversations. It means that frequently our conversations are boring, being about things like stuff she has watched on TV that I haven’s seen, but it also means that I haven’t ever hauled off and smacked her upside the head. (Joking, of course, I wouldn’t hit my aging mother.)

Some things just can’t be how we like them, and we have to learn to avoid the worst bits if we can, if not avoiding them does no good. In my case, it is completely impossible that I will change my mother’s mind about anything, because she isn’t listening. So it is better just to avoid the aggravation.

Prayer helps a lot.

–Jen

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Is there any good answer to that phrase? What I want to say is no, I expect to be treated like an adult because I am one, no matter what your opinion of how adults should behave. But of course that just doesn’t work when the other person sees you as acting “childish.” How do you have a mature discussion about what’s mature, anyway?

Not knowing both sides of the story I can’t speak to your exact situation but I can say that we’ve been dealing with this with our son for the last six years or so. He’s also of the opinion that his age automatically brings with it some sort of change in status. I’ve often told him that I can write “Dr.” in front of my name all I want; that doesn’t mean anyone’s going to let me operate on them. Just because someone has the legal status of an adult doesn’t mean they have any idea of how to behave like one. I’ve also found that young people who claim they want to be treated as an adult often don’t want that at all. When my son took a bunch of time off to go see a string of concerts, then blew the paltry paycheck that followed on junk food and soda to enjoy during the marathon gaming and cartoon-watching session he had with his friends, his idea of being treated like an adult was for us to cover the bills he suddenly couldn’t afford to pay. When we instead treated him like an adult–that is, we let him fend for himself–we were suddenly mean, horrible parents who didn’t love him or care for his well-being.

The fact that you’re saying you expect to be treated like an adult because you reached some arbitrary milestone as opposed to having changed your behavior by presumably becoming a more mature and responsible person leads me to believe that your attitude about adulthood is similar to my son’s. The things I had at his age that he doesn’t have include a house, a wife, a son, a college degree, a car and a full-time job. I’m not saying those things are necessary for being an adult, or that having those things makes one an adult, but certainly the capability to be responsible for those things is a big part of being accepted as an adult. Acting like a child and watching kids shows certainly doesn’t give one the veneer of an adult. And, yes, we’ve dealt with that plenty with our son. Whether it impedes on his other responsibilities or not, him telling us he spent an entire day in his SpongeBob jammies watching cartoons and eating Fruit Loops doesn’t leave us with any confidence that he’s going to make it to his job interview the next day, or pay his rent, or get his library books back on time, etc.

I guarantee that, for as often as I use the phrase, “Act like an adult and you’ll be treated like one,” I sound like a broken record; however, it’s absolutely true. If our son spent a month, or even just a week or two, meeting every one of his responsibilities without having to be told, waking up before noon, shaving, grooming and dressing like someone with some goals and objectives instead of like a four-year-old on Saturday morning, he might get treated a little differently, not just by us but by every other adult who has to deal with him. Even if he just spent a month fending for himself and fulfilling his obligations on his own, that would garner him a lot more respect and adult-like treatment. Until that happens, though, our gut reaction in every situation will be to expect the far-less-than adult behavior he consistently displays. Perhaps if you didn’t show your mother the childish behavior you admit to having, she might reexamine how she deals with you.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

The funny thing is that the very thing she is challenging you to do is the the very thing that will put a stronger boundary between you and her antics, and that will tolerate her behavior less and less. I’d bet that the more adult you act, the less she likes it.

I’ve often found problems even with this. If I walk off, I am “throwing a tantrum” or “sulking.” If I engage, I am “being argumentative” or “contradicting.” If I remain and stay silent I am “disrespectful”. Sometimes at the end of the day it simply seems that she’ll think there is no possible way to be mature and make the choices I do. I swear it’s like when I was 14 and she’d tell me I was being immature for disobeying her. Seriously, I don’t plan on continuing to obey my mother when I have my own apartment!

So here’s the “adult” way to look at her attitude. So she thinks you’re throwing a tantrum or sulking? Fine. She is welcome to think whatever she wants. One of the great lessons that comes with maturity (which most people are still working on, at all ages) is that what other people think of you is not all that important. The fact is that she may not really think those things, but is saying them to get a rise out of you to continue the argument. But even if she does think that you are throwing a tantrum or sulking or being disrespectful or immature…that doesn’t make it true. You will have to learn to be ok with her thinking those things (or try to be ok with it, and fake it til you make it). Work on the following disengaging lines:
–“Mom, I don’t want to argue with you, let’s talk about something else…So how about the weather?”
–I am not going to argue with you.
–If you can’t speak to me kindly/respectfully, then we can’t talk

Notice, at no point, do you need to address the comments about you not acting like an adult, because those criticisms are not worth the attention they are trying to get. Just disengage, disengage, disengage, and let her think what she wants. If she refuses to disengage, then you will have to leave the room, leave the house, go for a walk. You don’t necessarily have to storm off. Not that I’ve never done that, but if you know you have to have dinner with her a couple of hours later, you could interrupt her mid-argument, and say, “Well, 'm going to go take a walk now, I’ll see you in a little while,” and then just leave. Or as a PP mentioned, look at it comically, with a “really? are we still doing this?” and walk away…

 

[Xantippe]

The funny thing is that the very thing she is challenging you to do is the the very thing that will put a stronger boundary between you and her antics, and that will tolerate her behavior less and less. I’d bet that the more adult you act, the less she likes it.
So here’s the “adult” way to look at her attitude. So she thinks you’re throwing a tantrum or sulking? Fine. She is welcome to think whatever she wants. One of the great lessons that comes with maturity (which most people are still working on, at all ages) is that what other people think of you is not all that important. The fact is that she may not really think those things, but is saying them to get a rise out of you to continue the argument. But even if she does think that you are throwing a tantrum or sulking or being disrespectful or immature…that doesn’t make it true. You will have to learn to be ok with her thinking those things (or try to be ok with it, and fake it til you make it). Work on the following disengaging lines:
–“Mom, I don’t want to argue with you, let’s talk about something else…So how about the weather?”
–I am not going to argue with you.
–If you can’t speak to me kindly/respectfully, then we can’t talk

Notice, at no point, do you need to address the comments about you not acting like an adult, because those criticisms are not worth the attention they are trying to get. Just disengage, disengage, disengage, and let her think what she wants. If she refuses to disengage, then you will have to leave the room, leave the house, go for a walk. You don’t necessarily have to storm off. Not that I’ve never done that, but if you know you have to have dinner with her a couple of hours later, you could interrupt her mid-argument, and say, “Well, 'm going to go take a walk now, I’ll see you in a little while,” and then just leave. Or as a PP mentioned, look at it comically, with a “really? are we still doing this?” and walk away…

Yes. You can’t change her or her feelings, but you can try to handle her in an adult manner. (What Would Elizabeth Bennet Do? might be a good place to start. She also had an impossible mother.)

 

[DarkLight]

I’m actually better now about financial independence than I was. But I do have to say I hate how that’s become the line. Am I suddenly less of an adult or less worthy of respect because I’m disabled? Does the fact that where I was living my job wouldn’t provide necessary medical care and the state decided I wasn’t eligible for any aid because of my age/work history (did you know student jobs don’t count as “work”) mean I’m suddenly not an adult? If I were permanently disabled, would it be ok to treat me as a child for the rest of my life simply because I couldn’t take care of myself?

Financial responsibility is affected by a lot of things, not all of which are ones that a young adult can necessarily control. I can’t suddenly stop needing medical care. Nor can I suddenly will my body into taking on the kind of jobs available for young adults around here without it ending up once again with me throwing up every morning. And I hate that something fundamentally outside my control means that in a lot of people’s eyes I’m suddenly less mature than the kid that sailed through college without any issues and managed to land a job quickly that they can actually do.

 

[DarkLight]

Not knowing both sides of the story I can’t speak to your exact situation but I can say that we’ve been dealing with this with our son for the last six years or so. He’s also of the opinion that his age automatically brings with it some sort of change in status. I’ve often told him that I can write “Dr.” in front of my name all I want; that doesn’t mean anyone’s going to let me operate on them. Just because someone has the legal status of an adult doesn’t mean they have any idea of how to behave like one. I’ve also found that young people who claim they want to be treated as an adult often don’t want that at all. When my son took a bunch of time off to go see a string of concerts, then blew the paltry paycheck that followed on junk food and soda to enjoy during the marathon gaming and cartoon-watching session he had with his friends, his idea of being treated like an adult was for us to cover the bills he suddenly couldn’t afford to pay. When we instead treated him like an adult–that is, we let him fend for himself–we were suddenly mean, horrible parents who didn’t love him or care for his well-being.

The fact that you’re saying you expect to be treated like an adult because you reached some arbitrary milestone as opposed to having changed your behavior by presumably becoming a more mature and responsible person leads me to believe that your attitude about adulthood is similar to my son’s. The things I had at his age that he doesn’t have include a house, a wife, a son, a college degree, a car and a full-time job. I’m not saying those things are necessary for being an adult, or that having those things makes one an adult, but certainly the capability to be responsible for those things is a big part of being accepted as an adult. Acting like a child and watching kids shows certainly doesn’t give one the veneer of an adult. And, yes, we’ve dealt with that plenty with our son. Whether it impedes on his other responsibilities or not, him telling us he spent an entire day in his SpongeBob jammies watching cartoons and eating Fruit Loops doesn’t leave us with any confidence that he’s going to make it to his job interview the next day, or pay his rent, or get his library books back on time, etc.

I guarantee that, for as often as I use the phrase, “Act like an adult and you’ll be treated like one,” I sound like a broken record; however, it’s absolutely true. If our son spent a month, or even just a week or two, meeting every one of his responsibilities without having to be told, waking up before noon, shaving, grooming and dressing like someone with some goals and objectives instead of like a four-year-old on Saturday morning, he might get treated a little differently, not just by us but by every other adult who has to deal with him. Even if he just spent a month fending for himself and fulfilling his obligations on his own, that would garner him a lot more respect and adult-like treatment. Until that happens, though, our gut reaction in every situation will be to expect the far-less-than adult behavior he consistently displays. Perhaps if you didn’t show your mother the childish behavior you admit to having, she might reexamine how she deals with you.

I think the thing is it’s really just her I have this problem with. I pay my rent on time just fine. The times I’ve needed help have been pretty much all outside my control (see the previous post about health stuff). I do live on my own and take care of myself on my own. But it seems like still, there’s always some thing my mother latches on to that means I’m still “immature.” She has some hatred of my clothes because she sees my skirts and dark colors as childish, even though I get compliments when I wear them to work. And she cannot stand that I do not go to a church she approves of and still sees me as in rebellion and naive for it.

And it leads to when we have a disagreement, if I don’t handle something at work the way she wants, I feel like she defaults to saying I’m being immature if I want to handle my responsibilities my way instead of doing it her way. When that’s exactly the opposite really; I feel like what she sees as mature is my letting her interfere and doing things her way all the time, rather than taking responsibility on my own.

Edit: I should also mention I’m not the one bringing this stuff up. She’s the one bringing things up and then calling me childish for my responses, generally.

 

[DarkLight]

This is true, but with these two additions:

1. It is a good idea not to make “respect” a blanket all-or-nothing affair. You may have to learn to live with the idea that your mother does not respect your clothing choices. That doesn’t mean you have to conclude that she doesn’t respect anything you do or any of the choices you make. It just means that your mom is not graceful about it when she thinks you are wrong, and perhaps carries around the charming misconception that because you are inherently capable of perfection in her eyes, your every fault must be something you simply need to “grow out of.” (At least she still thinks you *could be *perfect, and not that you are so inherently pig-headed that your wrongness is something you could not grow out of! )

I’m afraid that that’s possibly/probably something you will just have to deal with.

My mother does the same to me and I’ve been out of the house and financially independant for more than 15 years. We just can’t talk about politics (or to some extent religion, but that’s not quite so bad) because we have one of those kinds of conversation where instead of making any actual points in favor of her views, she just behaves as though she has made incontrovertable arguments and I’m just being too childish to acknowledge how rational the arguments (which she hasn’t actually made) are. There is a huge amount of sighing and condescension on her part. It used to drive me crazy.

I think my big frustration is that (1) she makes it very difficult to drop a topic, and (2) it’s hard to know what sets her off. Well, other than the clothes, but I’m not buying new clothes just because she has a thing against skirts and dark colors.

I do feel like the relationship is getting better, but I also still feel like I’m walking on eggshells a lot trying to avoid topics that might set her off. Plus I know if I don’t engage immediately she’ll go running to my dad to make him try to get me to play nice and I hate having it pop up over there too once she’s made me out to be a spoiled brat to him. (To listen to her we were just having a polite conversation and I got mad and stormed out.) I’m trying to find the right balance between being firm on boundaries and not making her feel like I’m rejecting her completely, and it’s hard.

 

[Xantippe]

I think my big frustration is that (1) she makes it very difficult to drop a topic, and (2) it’s hard to know what sets her off. Well, other than the clothes, but I’m not buying new clothes just because she has a thing against skirts and dark colors.

I do feel like the relationship is getting better, but I also still feel like I’m walking on eggshells a lot trying to avoid topics that might set her off. Plus I know if I don’t engage immediately she’ll go running to my dad to make him try to get me to play nice and I hate having it pop up over there too once she’s made me out to be a spoiled brat to him. (To listen to her we were just having a polite conversation and I got mad and stormed out.) I’m trying to find the right balance between being firm on boundaries and not making her feel like I’m rejecting her completely, and it’s hard.

I think you need to have a separate conversation with dad.

“You know how mom can be sometimes. If mom and I have a disagreement, can you leave us to work it out?” That’s pretty reasonable. And yes, I suspect dad does know how mom can be sometimes…

If dad can’t just leave you guys to it, that’s very unfortunate.

As to your question about financial independence, maybe the most virtuous, wise and prudent of mothers would be more willing to offer a financially dependent disabled child more independence, but that’s not your situation. The hard cold truth is that even fairly normal parents (and your mom is off the charts) are going to struggle with the idea of a financially dependent disabled child being a capable and responsible adult. That’s just life outside the garden. And even financially independent non-disabled children often have parents who struggle with the idea that they are adults and making good decisions. (My in-laws come to mind.)

You can’t make her respect you and it’s a waste of your time and emotional energy to try to make her feel stuff she doesn’t feel.