Acting in the person of Jesus, priests

[georgemiller]

Is it correct to say that in the sacraments of the Eucharist and Confession the priest is acting in the person of Jesus? Need help understanding this teaching/

 

[Brendan]

Is it correct to say that in the sacraments of the Eucharist and Confession the priest is acting in the person of Jesus? Need help understanding this teaching/

In the Mass, the priest, as a man, cannot offer the Body and Blood of Christ to the Father. It is not his (the priests) body, nor his blood.

Likewise, when he consecrates the bread and wine, his words are not his, when the priest states ( This is My Body), he cannot be speaking on behalf of himself, the bread does not become the Body, Blood and Soul of Father So-and-so. It becomes the Body. Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ.

So the words being spoken are that of Christ, acting through, and with, the person of the priest.

Likewise with Confession, The priest himself could only personally forgive those sins which were done against him personally. For sins against God, it would require that the forgiveness come from God. Which it does, through the person of the priest.

 

[georgemiller]

Sorry. Need more help! So are you saying it is only certain words of the priests during the consecration and confession that are actually the words of Jesus and that is the whole extent of it when we say the priest is acting in the person of Jesus? In addition,can you help identify what Scriptures supports the above Church teachings?

 

[Vico]

Is it correct to say that in the sacraments of the Eucharist and Confession the priest is acting in the person of Jesus? Need help understanding this teaching/

Pope Pius XII, On the Sacred Liturgy, MEDIATOR DEI

1. Only to the apostles, and thenceforth to those on whom their successors have imposed hands, is granted the power of the priesthood, in virtue of which they represent the person of Jesus Christ before their people, acting at the same time as representatives of their people before God.
   …
2. The august sacrifice of the altar, then, is no mere empty commemoration of the passion and death of Jesus Christ, but a true and proper act of sacrifice, whereby the High Priest by an unbloody immolation offers Himself a most acceptable victim to the Eternal Father, as He did upon the cross. “It is one and the same victim; the same person now offers it by the ministry of His priests, who then offered Himself on the cross, the manner of offering alone being different.”[59]

w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_20111947_mediator-dei.html

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

Is it correct to say that in the sacraments of the Eucharist and Confession the priest is acting in the person of Jesus? Need help understanding this teaching/

Yes.

In a longer response, no man can forgive sins. But it is the Holy Spirit that gives the priest to absolve and retain.

 

[Vico]

Is it correct to say that in the sacraments of the Eucharist and Confession the priest is acting in the person of Jesus? Need help understanding this teaching/

From LIFE AND MINISTRY OF PRIESTS by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (1995):

Above all, we find the designation of the priest as the servant of God or of Christ (servus Dei or servus Christi)

…the word “character” describes the ontological character of the service of Christ which we find in the priesthood, and at the same time, clarifies what we mean by its sacramentality. Only then can we understand why St. Augustine described the character functionally (and at the same time ontologically) as the jus dandi, i.e. the necessary condition for the valid administration of the sacraments. Belonging to the Lord who became a servant is to belong to those who are his own. This means that now the servant can, under the sacred sign, give what he can never give by his own power: in fact, he can give the Holy Spirit, absolve from sins, make present both the sacrifice of Christ in his body and blood; all rights reserved to God, that no man can procure of himself, nor can they be delegated to him by any community. If the character is the expression of the communion in service, it also manifests that always ultimately it is the Lord himself who acts and that He acts in the visible Church through men. The character guarantees the “validity” of the sacrament even in the case of an unworthy minister, being at the same time a judgment on him and a stimulus to live the sacrament.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cclergy/documents/rc_con_cclergy_doc_24101995_prh_en.html

 

[georgemiller]

Pope Pius XII, On the Sacred Liturgy, MEDIATOR DEI

1. Only to the apostles, and thenceforth to those on whom their successors have imposed hands, is granted the power of the priesthood, in virtue of which they represent the person of Jesus Christ before their people, acting at the same time as representatives of their people before God.
   …
2. The august sacrifice of the altar, then, is no mere empty commemoration of the passion and death of Jesus Christ, but a true and proper act of sacrifice, whereby the High Priest by an unbloody immolation offers Himself a most acceptable victim to the Eternal Father, as He did upon the cross. “It is one and the same victim; the same person now offers it by the ministry of His priests, who then offered Himself on the cross, the manner of offering alone being different.”[59]

Pope Pius XII, On the Sacred Liturgy, MEDIATOR DEI
…

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So, is the following correct? All priests represent the person of Christ in certain acts of worship ie, Consecration and confession. Again, is it Jesus directly saying the words of consecration, the priest or both?

Also, when I go to confession am I talking to both Jesus and the priest directly? If so, can I also conclude that the response the priest gives me during confession is also the direct response of Jesus? Am I always and actually hearing from Jesus directly? If not, what boundaries are there that I should I be aware of?

Thanks for helping me on this very difficult issue relative to fully understanding the Catholic teaching on this matter.

 

[clem456]

Vico;13593052:

Pope Pius XII, On the Sacred Liturgy, MEDIATOR DEI

1. Only to the apostles, and thenceforth to those on whom their successors have imposed hands, is granted the power of the priesthood, in virtue of which they represent the person of Jesus Christ before their people, acting at the same time as representatives of their people before God.
   …
2. The august sacrifice of the altar, then, is no mere empty commemoration of the passion and death of Jesus Christ, but a true and proper act of sacrifice, whereby the High Priest by an unbloody immolation offers Himself a most acceptable victim to the Eternal Father, as He did upon the cross. “It is one and the same victim; the same person now offers it by the ministry of His priests, who then offered Himself on the cross, the manner of offering alone being different.”[59]

Pope Pius XII, On the Sacred Liturgy, MEDIATOR DEI
…

---

So, is the following correct? All priests represent the person of Christ in certain acts of worship ie, Consecration and confession. Again, is it Jesus directly saying the words of consecration, the priest or both?

Also, when I go to confession am I talking to both Jesus and the priest directly? If so, can I also conclude that the response the priest gives me during confession is also the direct response of Jesus? Am I always and actually hearing from Jesus directly? If not, what boundaries are there that I should I be aware of?

Thanks for helping me on this very difficult issue relative to fully understanding the Catholic teaching on this matter.

In persona Christi
In the person of Christ. Which doesn’t mean they are one and the same person, or the priest is changed into Christ himself.

In the person of Christ the Head . . .

1548 In the ecclesial service of the ordained minister, it is Christ himself who is present to his Church as Head of his Body, Shepherd of his flock, high priest of the redemptive sacrifice, Teacher of Truth. This is what the Church means by saying that the priest, by virtue of the sacrament of Holy Orders, acts in persona Christi Capitis:23

It is the same priest, Christ Jesus, whose sacred person his minister truly represents

. Now the minister, by reason of the sacerdotal consecration which he has received, is truly made like to the high priest and possesses the authority to act in the power and place of the person of Christ himself (virtute ac persona ipsius Christi).24
Christ is the source of all priesthood: the priest of the old law was a figure of Christ, and the priest of the new law acts in the person of Christ.25

 

[Vico]

Vico;13593052:

Pope Pius XII, On the Sacred Liturgy, MEDIATOR DEI

1. Only to the apostles, and thenceforth to those on whom their successors have imposed hands, is granted the power of the priesthood, in virtue of which they represent the person of Jesus Christ before their people, acting at the same time as representatives of their people before God.
   …
2. The august sacrifice of the altar, then, is no mere empty commemoration of the passion and death of Jesus Christ, but a true and proper act of sacrifice, whereby the High Priest by an unbloody immolation offers Himself a most acceptable victim to the Eternal Father, as He did upon the cross. “It is one and the same victim; the same person now offers it by the ministry of His priests, who then offered Himself on the cross, the manner of offering alone being different.”[59]…

---

So, is the following correct? All priests represent the person of Christ in certain acts of worship ie, Consecration and confession. Again, is it Jesus directly saying the words of consecration, the priest or both?

Also, when I go to confession am I talking to both Jesus and the priest directly? If so, can I also conclude that the response the priest gives me during confession is also the direct response of Jesus? Am I always and actually hearing from Jesus directly? If not, what boundaries are there that I should I be aware of?

Thanks for helping me on this very difficult issue relative to fully understanding the Catholic teaching on this matter.

The key phrase is " is granted the power of the priesthood, in virtue of which they represent".

The priest “represents” not “is”. A vicar is anyone acting “in the person of” or agent for a superior. So the priest speaks as an agent for Christ.

 

[georgemiller]

The key phrase is " is granted the power of the priesthood, in virtue of which they represent".

The priest “represents” not “is”. A vicar is anyone acting “in the person of” or agent for a superior. So the priest speaks as an agent for Christ.

So, it would then be correct to say the priest acts or functions and represents Christ in certain acts of worship? So, in that context within the consecration prayer the priest is representing or as you say is the agent of Christ offering up the sacrifice to the Father. But as a agent the priest words of consecration and absolution are very powerful in that they are also the words of Chris due to his ordination. Is that correct? Thanks again for helping me with this issue/.

 

[clem456]

So, it would then be correct to say the priest acts or functions and represents Christ in certain acts of worship? So, in that context within the consecration prayer the priest is representing or as you say is the agent of Christ offering up the sacrifice to the Father. But as a agent the priest words of consecration and absolution are very powerful in that they are also the words of Chris due to his ordination. Is that correct? Thanks again for helping me with this issue/.

You are asking a pretty deep question here.
Sacraments are efficacious. There open a deeper reality, they are not merely symbolic. A priest through his “sacerdotal consecration” enters into a reality.
When he offers the sacrifice of the Mass, his actions make present and real the power of Christ.

In the sacrament of confession, the words of the priest make real the power of absolution that Christ has given the Church, and him personally. The sign effects what it signifies, by the power of Christ.
And I’m prolly not saying this exactly right, but it’s something like that.

 

[georgemiller]

Since the subject is how a priest functions or acts in the person of Christ I believe it very important to know the specific parameters of that representation and relationship with Jesus our God. After all, we are talking about the role of the priest and how Jesus as our God interacts with the priest during the consecration and confession. In any case, I sure thank all of you for your help on this matter. Even though I still have questions, I now know so much more than before and I am confident with more study and prayer greater clarity will come to me on this issue. Thank you all again for being helpful. God bless.