Acting out the Our Father

[revelations]

So today I couldn’t make transit to the service i normally attend, so i decided to stop in at the parish near my house. It was pretty good, everything was more or less kosher, with the exception of one moment.

After the consecration of the bread and wine, before the recitation of the Our Father, the priest invited all the children up to the altar with him to talk about what they learned in Sunday school today. Then, came the recitation of the Our Father, which was put to music, and acted out in gesture, with some of the parishoners also gesticulating along.

Has anyone else seen this? The kids in the sanctuary, and the acting out of the Our Father? Thoughts?

-revelations

 

[benedictgal]

That is sooo very wrong on all aspects. The Directory for Masses with Children doesn’t even allow that.

Now, some will justify what you just witnessed by saying that Jesus didn’t keep the little children from Him. However, his encounter with them wasn’t in a liturgical context (Jewish or otherwise).

What you witnessed was, unfortunately, the priest inserting his own personal idiosyncracy into the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Here’s what Cardinal Arinze has to say on that issue:

First of all, it is necessary to bear in mind that the public worship of the Church is something that we receive in faith through the Church. It is not something that we invent. Indeed the essentials of the sacraments are established by Christ Himself. And the detailed rites, including words and actions, have been carefully worked out, guarded and handed down by the Church along the centuries. It would, therefore, not be the proper attitude for an individual or a committee to keep thinking and planning each week how to invent a new way of celebrating Mass.

Moreover, a priority at Mass and other liturgical acts is worship of God. The liturgy is not a field for self-expression, free creation and the demonstration of personal tastes. Idiosyncrasies tend to attract attention to the person rather than to the mysteries of Christ being celebrated. They can also upset, puzzle, annoy, mislead or confuse the congregation.

These words came from an address on Liturgical Piety that the good cardinal, who just happens to be the Holy See’s pointman on Divine Worship, gave at a conference at St. Louis, MO.

 

[NetNuncio]

benedictgal points out the many reason this is wrong. Very well, I may add.

I just wanted to be my normal, kind self and point out the very idea is also just incredibly stupid.

 

[THurifer2]

came the recitation of the Our Father, which was put to music, and acted out in gesture, with some of the parishoners also gesticulating along.

I have never seen this…I do have a question for the progressives reading this thread…in regards to “acting” out the our father…what is the purpose? To get under trads skin?

 

[MusicMan]

Going out on a limb here, was it possible that the “gestures” you speak of actually American Sign Language, with the Our Father being Interpreted for the Deaf? And the congregation just taking a good thing to an inappropriate extreme?

 

[benedictgal]

Going out on a limb here, was it possible that the “gestures” you speak of actually American Sign Language, with the Our Father being Interpreted for the Deaf? And the congregation just taking a good thing to an inappropriate extreme?

While this is very true, I don’t think that in the places where I’ve seen this done, only one person stands up to the side (usually where the ambo is) not in the manner described by the OP.

 

[Brenda_V]

Going out on a limb here, was it possible that the “gestures” you speak of actually American Sign Language, with the Our Father being Interpreted for the Deaf? And the congregation just taking a good thing to an inappropriate extreme?

I don’t know. I was going to say the same thing, the only thing wrong being the children surrounding the altar. There may be enough of the congregation who are deaf that their “recitation” of the “Our Father” would be in ASL (American Sign Language).

Just a thought being as the only one who was present was the OP .

Brenda V.

 

[MusicMan]

In some places, rather than having the Mass interpreted in its entirety by a trained 'terp, the Lord’s Prayer has been made into a special event by having someone in the parish with a rudimentary knowledge of Sign Language or ASL interpret it along. These people often have a justifiable reason for their knowledge, but often lack enough to interpret the entire Mass. Or, they bring in a real 'terp, but just for the Lord’s Prayer.

In any case, it’s a special event to be inclusive, which it, sadly, does not actually cause, because it creates a situation where the Deaf are left out for the rest of the Mass, and their “specialness” is being celebrated for only one prayer.

To make matters worse, you all know how the laity love to imitate. The ASL for the Lord’s Prayer is not terribly difficult. I fit into the above category of rudimentary knowledge. I would think that after attending two weeks of Sunday Masses where the Lord’s Prayer is being signed, I could probably sign it myself with little to no problem.

So, what we have here is a good intention that, after a few weeks of “why, doesn’t that look cool, I think I’ll join in,” has simply gotten out of hand.

 

[revelations]

Sign language is a good guess, but all the children were motioning along, as well as about 25% of the parishoners. Here is a link that closely describes what went on:

creativeyouthideas.com/blog/drama_ideas/the_lords_prayer_with_actions_1.html

It wasnt just some hand motions.

Other than that the mass was pretty typical.

 

[MusicMan]

Well, that’s different.

I always try to consider the reasonable explanations first, before going on to consider the absurd. Clearly it may be time to reevaluate that practice.

 

[benedictgal]

Sign language is a good guess, but all the children were motioning along, as well as about 25% of the parishoners. Here is a link that closely describes what went on:

creativeyouthideas.com/blog/drama_ideas/the_lords_prayer_with_actions_1.html

Communion then followed…

Then, I stand by my original response to your post. We are not called to be creative when it comes to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. We are called to receive the gift we have been given and to transmit it intact.

When we do things to “spice things up”, we’ve sadly reduced the Mass to the level of entertainment. That does no one any good, especially children because, as they grow older, they will not have a solid understanding of the solemn mystery that unfolds before their very eyes at every Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[revelations]

What would you guys do in a situation like that? Should i say anything about it, or just tack that parish onto my daily prayers? It’s kind of irking me, lol

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I’ve been in a couple of parishes where the children are encouraged to ‘act out’ up around the altar–
the Our Father was one setting, and one parish’s children’s choir routinely sang the type of song that involved ‘knocking’, ‘stamping’, ‘rocking’, ‘clapping’ etc. as part of the lyrics, with the appropriate (often very loud when done by 15-30 children at once!) gestures.

One has to wonder if this sort of thing is done for ‘the children’–or whether it is for the parents and/or the catechist’s benefits. Mom (sometimes with Dad) can beam away seeing little Brooke or Dylan really ‘part of’ Mass (and so talented, too). Brooke or Dylan, though, usually HATE the practices (few enough though they are), and since most people will stomp and cheer even if the kids stand like robots and barely mouth a word or two (while the ‘guitar and cantor’ are amped up to 200 decibels to help ‘carry the kids along’), it really doesn’t seem to matter if the situation is appropriate to the Mass, or if the kids themselves really participate.

 

[benedictgal]

I’ve been in a couple of parishes where the children are encouraged to ‘act out’ up around the altar–
the Our Father was one setting, and one parish’s children’s choir routinely sang the type of song that involved ‘knocking’, ‘stamping’, ‘rocking’, ‘clapping’ etc. as part of the lyrics, with the appropriate (often very loud when done by 15-30 children at once!) gestures.

One has to wonder if this sort of thing is done for ‘the children’–or whether it is for the parents and/or the catechist’s benefits. Mom (sometimes with Dad) can beam away seeing little Brooke or Dylan really ‘part of’ Mass (and so talented, too). Brooke or Dylan, though, usually HATE the practices (few enough though they are), and since most people will stomp and cheer even if the kids stand like robots and barely mouth a word or two (while the ‘guitar and cantor’ are amped up to 200 decibels to help ‘carry the kids along’), it really doesn’t seem to matter if the situation is appropriate to the Mass, or if the kids themselves really participate.

When I was helping with liturgies at my my dad’s (now former) parish, the pastor, who has an STD in Liturgy from one of the Roman Pontifical Universities, and I got into some serious arguments about what you are describing. He is very much into singing these horrid little kid songs that, as you correctly stated, delight the daylights out of the parents, and bore the kiddoes to no end. During the Penitential Rite, he routinely substitutes the prescribed norms with a kiddie song called “O God, We Are Your Children” and then walks up and down the aisle carrying a portable mike like he’s Bob Barker. Then, he shoves the mike under the chin of some poor child and makes the little one sing a snippet of the song. This happens throughout the course of the song. For the Responsorial Psalm, he substitutes whatever the text is supposed to be with “Make a Joyful Noise to the Lord” and leads the kids in clapping and waving their hands.

He also does this with the parochial school students during weekly Mass. What was most horrendous was when he did this during the First Holy Communion Masses for the CCD and parish school children. He also uses the EP for Children, even when adults comprise a majority of the faithful. It’s okay for the school children’s Mass, but, not for a Sunday parish Mass.

I told him that the Church simply does not allow that kind of deviation. He told me that children’s liturgies are much more flexible. I pointed to him that flexibility didn’t mean inventing your own rites and substituting things at will. Luckily, my service with him ended abruptly, but, from what I understand, he’s still doing that. My father reported this to the bishop, but, nothing has happened. My dad’s letter has not even been acknowledged.