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Frankenfurter
Guest
My bible says they were ‘men’. So who were these two guys? What is the church’s teaching on who these guys were? Or perhaps we just don’t know?
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Mintaka
Guest
The way the Bible says it, it’s supposed to clue you in that the two “men” were angels that had taken on human form. If you’re in the Bible, and a guy comes up to you out of nowhere and says mysterious messages, and then disappears when nobody’s watching, he’s probably an angel. 
Though sometimes angels have cover stories (Raphael in the Book of Tobit, for example), the out of nowhere thing is very usual.
Remember, Luke was just talking about the women running into “two men” in “shining apparel” at the tomb (in Luke 24), and since Mark talks about a “young man” dressed in “white robes”. John talks very explicitly about the “two men” at the tomb being angels. (John 20).
Though sometimes angels have cover stories (Raphael in the Book of Tobit, for example), the out of nowhere thing is very usual.Remember, Luke was just talking about the women running into “two men” in “shining apparel” at the tomb (in Luke 24), and since Mark talks about a “young man” dressed in “white robes”. John talks very explicitly about the “two men” at the tomb being angels. (John 20).
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TimothyH
Guest
Could they be two members of the great multitude in Revelation 7, who had washed their robes clean in the Blood of the Lamb, the ones who “have survided the time of great distress?”
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Mintaka
Guest
Now, see, this is why John comes along and makes sure he underlines “these guys were angels”. Because we’re not Jewish people who’ve read the Old Testament five zillion times, so we don’t get all the other hints and literary references.
I mean, when you read the OT story about Abraham entertaining mysterious guys, or Lot’s visit by mysterious guys setting off the whole big Sodom riot, nobody says, “Why gosh, I bet those are saints who’ve washed their garments in the blood of the Lamb, not pure spirits created by God that carry His messages”. Why? Because we know that angels are always showing up like that in the OT, and we don’t look for saints so much. But if we were really soaked in Scripture, we could point out all the signs that show these aren’t supposed to be ghosts, random prophets, saints, or whatever.
Now, “white” or “shining” robes or clothes are a sign that you dwell in Heaven, and this includes saints as well as angels. (And Jesus in His glory, as we saw at the Transfiguration.) And it’s not intrinsically impossible that the saints who survived troubles would travel back in time to the Resurrection (since there’s no “back” or “time” in Eternity). But the literary/Biblical references aren’t right at all. If it were going to be any two men who were men, it’d be Moses and Elijah again, but it ain’t them.
Mike Aquilina’s book about angels talks about all the “angel” signs common in Scripture, both in the OT and NT. (Including stuff about when you’re supposed to know that “stars” are angels, that sort of thing.) It’s a little late for me to look that stuff up tonight, but I’m sure other forum people will be on it.
I mean, when you read the OT story about Abraham entertaining mysterious guys, or Lot’s visit by mysterious guys setting off the whole big Sodom riot, nobody says, “Why gosh, I bet those are saints who’ve washed their garments in the blood of the Lamb, not pure spirits created by God that carry His messages”. Why? Because we know that angels are always showing up like that in the OT, and we don’t look for saints so much. But if we were really soaked in Scripture, we could point out all the signs that show these aren’t supposed to be ghosts, random prophets, saints, or whatever.
Now, “white” or “shining” robes or clothes are a sign that you dwell in Heaven, and this includes saints as well as angels. (And Jesus in His glory, as we saw at the Transfiguration.) And it’s not intrinsically impossible that the saints who survived troubles would travel back in time to the Resurrection (since there’s no “back” or “time” in Eternity). But the literary/Biblical references aren’t right at all. If it were going to be any two men who were men, it’d be Moses and Elijah again, but it ain’t them.
Mike Aquilina’s book about angels talks about all the “angel” signs common in Scripture, both in the OT and NT. (Including stuff about when you’re supposed to know that “stars” are angels, that sort of thing.) It’s a little late for me to look that stuff up tonight, but I’m sure other forum people will be on it.
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Mintaka
Guest
Oh, and I forgot Matthew 28:2-3. He was explicit about the one guy at the tomb, who rolled away the stone and sat on it, being an “angel of the Lord. His appearance was like lightning and his clothes as white as snow.”
If all the angels had an appearance like lightning, I don’t think anybody was confusing them for anything but “Be not afraid, even though I am really really scary-looking” angels. Interpretations differ about whether this is talking about the face, the body, or beams of lightning shooting out of the angel’s eyes, but I don’t see any of these being unable to get your attention.
I think I remember some kind of pious legend that the angel sitting outside was St. Michael and the two sitting inside were Ss. Gabriel and Raphael, but I wouldn’t go that far into identification.
If all the angels had an appearance like lightning, I don’t think anybody was confusing them for anything but “Be not afraid, even though I am really really scary-looking” angels. Interpretations differ about whether this is talking about the face, the body, or beams of lightning shooting out of the angel’s eyes, but I don’t see any of these being unable to get your attention.
I think I remember some kind of pious legend that the angel sitting outside was St. Michael and the two sitting inside were Ss. Gabriel and Raphael, but I wouldn’t go that far into identification.
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TimothyH
Guest
I get your point and you are probably correct. They are probably God’s messengers. Point well taken. Thanks.
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William_Pitts
Guest
From John Gill’s exposition of the entire Bible:
Behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; that is, two angels in the form of men; it being usual with them to appear in human form: these on a sudden appeared and stood on the earth just by them; though the Ethiopic version renders it, “they stood above them”, as if they were in the air over their heads; and they appeared in white apparel, as the angel at the sepulchre in Mat_28:2 which was a symbol both of their purity and holiness, and of their lustre and glory. The Ethiopic version renders it, “they were clothed with lightning”; they appeared in such a dazzling form, that it looked as if they were covered with lightning; as the angel that appeared at Christ’s resurrection, his countenance is said to be as lightning; which must at once fix the attention of the disciples to them, and strike them with surprise: hence a “behold” is prefixed to this: and hereby they knew that they were not common and ordinary men, or mere men, but angels in such a form.
Behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; that is, two angels in the form of men; it being usual with them to appear in human form: these on a sudden appeared and stood on the earth just by them; though the Ethiopic version renders it, “they stood above them”, as if they were in the air over their heads; and they appeared in white apparel, as the angel at the sepulchre in Mat_28:2 which was a symbol both of their purity and holiness, and of their lustre and glory. The Ethiopic version renders it, “they were clothed with lightning”; they appeared in such a dazzling form, that it looked as if they were covered with lightning; as the angel that appeared at Christ’s resurrection, his countenance is said to be as lightning; which must at once fix the attention of the disciples to them, and strike them with surprise: hence a “behold” is prefixed to this: and hereby they knew that they were not common and ordinary men, or mere men, but angels in such a form.
Acts 1:9 As he said this he was lifted up while they looked on, and a cloud took him from their sight.
10 They were still staring into the sky as he went, when suddenly two men in white were standing beside them,
11 and they said, ‘Why are you Galileans standing here looking into the sky? This Jesus who has been taken up from you into heaven will come back in the same way as you have seen him go to heaven.’
10 They were still staring into the sky as he went, when suddenly two men in white were standing beside them,
11 and they said, ‘Why are you Galileans standing here looking into the sky? This Jesus who has been taken up from you into heaven will come back in the same way as you have seen him go to heaven.’
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Frankenfurter
Guest
Thanks all.
I’m going to have to do more angel spotting in the bible, not that I have a beter idea of what to look for.
I’m going to have to do more angel spotting in the bible, not that I have a beter idea of what to look for.
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COPLAND_3
Guest
Here are some quotes from the Fathers and other medieval commentators, as you can see they all understood them to be angels.
Tertullian- the angels told the apostles that “He would so come, as He had withal ascended into the heavens.
Chrysostom- They were Angels, in the form of men; they had fashioned themselves completely as such, that the beholders might not be overpowered.
BEDE- White garments are more appropriate to exaltation than to humiliation. The place also was appropriate, for he who was born as a man in a humble little town returned to Heaven from a high mountain.
Ishodad of Merv- Now these were angels, Gabriel and Michael.
Erasmus- Suddenly there were two heavenly messengers there, in human form, clothed in white. Their human form precluded terror; their white garments befitted the messenger of one who was hastening to glory.
Nicholas of Lyra- They were angels in the form of men.
Tertullian- the angels told the apostles that “He would so come, as He had withal ascended into the heavens.
Chrysostom- They were Angels, in the form of men; they had fashioned themselves completely as such, that the beholders might not be overpowered.
BEDE- White garments are more appropriate to exaltation than to humiliation. The place also was appropriate, for he who was born as a man in a humble little town returned to Heaven from a high mountain.
Ishodad of Merv- Now these were angels, Gabriel and Michael.
Erasmus- Suddenly there were two heavenly messengers there, in human form, clothed in white. Their human form precluded terror; their white garments befitted the messenger of one who was hastening to glory.
Nicholas of Lyra- They were angels in the form of men.
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Huiou_Theou
Guest
“His appearance was like lighning.”, that suggests he was a Cherubim associated with the altar’s and wheel undeneath God’s (Ezekiels) chariot.Oh, and I forgot Matthew 28:2-3. He was explicit about the one guy at the tomb, who rolled away the stone and sat on it, being an “angel of the Lord. His appearance was like lightning and his clothes as white as snow.”
If all the angels had an appearance like lightning, I don’t think anybody was confusing them for anything but “Be not afraid, even though I am really really scary-looking” angels. Interpretations differ about whether this is talking about the face, the body, or beams of lightning shooting out of the angel’s eyes, but I don’t see any of these being unable to get your attention.
I think I remember some kind of pious legend that the angel sitting outside was St. Michael and the two sitting inside were Ss. Gabriel and Raphael, but I wouldn’t go that far into identification.
The storm is what God is figured to rides upon in visions:
Psalm 76:19 The voice of thy thunder in a wheel. Thy lightnings enlightened the world: the earth shook and trembled.
Psalm 76:20 Thy way is in the sea, and thy paths in many waters: and thy footsteps shall not be known.
The two angels inside, did they stand at the head and foot of the place where Jesus sat? That would be the ark’s configuration. I’m not sure if that angel sitting on the stone was a Cherubim or not, wheel/rolled stone – its kind of sketchy, but you might look at St. Thomas, or anyone might have classified him. Not that he’s definitive, either, but to know something about their names and meaning can be helpful to the humble.
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