Acts 10:25-26

[TommyWommy]

How would you charitably respond to a non-Catholic who poses the following question:

“If Peter, your first Pope, told Cornelius to ‘get up’ and not fall at his feet in reverence, why do Peter’s successors allow such gestures? Even if people are not worshiping the Pope, but only showing respect, isn’t it problematic that it may appear to be worship to others?”

Incidentally, it seems many non-Catholics use this same verse to bolster their objection to venerating Mary, the saints, or any statues of them. There is a deeply ingrained fear of idolatry instilled in many of these people, and they are ultra-sensitive to anything that may hint of misplaced worship/veneration.

 

[Samuel63]

Appearances cannot be avoided. It is simply a matter of respect to bow to someone that has dedicated their life to helping others achieve eternal life. It is recognition of a great person.

Showing respect to another in this way requires a certain amount of humility, which is a foundational virtue. When unfaithful see humility in practice, it is recognized as something missing in their lives. They start to question the practice and defend their decision to maintain a prideful position.

You can only state the truth at this point, with charity. Let God do the rest of the work.

 

[Legal_Eagle]

"If Peter, your first Pope, told Cornelius to ‘get up’ and not fall at his feet in reverence, why do Peter’s successors allow such gestures?

What you see with gestures of respect for the Pope is the same as those gestures of respect people show European royalty, especially in past times. The Church borrowed those trappings and displays of respect to demonstrate the place of honor and authority we give to St. Peter’s successor. Those gestures fell out of favor, obviously, in the United States when we rebelled against the monarchy. Nevertheless, even in the good ol US of A we still rise when a judge enters the courtroom. We still–or at least we should–rise when we greet people who are our seniors. We men still–or at least we should–remove our hats when we greet women. We Southerners still teach our children to answer adults with “Yes, sir” or “No, ma’am.” Simply because our culture/generation refuses to give respect and honor to those to whom respect and honor is due (Romans 13:7) it does not automatically follow that such displays of respect and honor are wrong.

Even if people are not worshiping the Pope, but only showing respect, isn’t it problematic that it may appear to be worship to others?"

Why should I behave poorly simply because someone else is ignorant?

Incidentally, it seems many non-Catholics use this same verse to bolster their objection to venerating Mary, the saints, or any statues of them. There is a deeply ingrained fear of idolatry instilled in many of these people, and they are ultra-sensitive to anything that may hint of misplaced worship/veneration.

In my experience, what underlies these comments is arrogance. “I am as good as Mary, St. Joseph, St. Paul, etc. Why should I show respect to someone that is no ‘better’ than me.”

Peace,

 

[JRKH]

How would you charitably respond to a non-Catholic who poses the following question:

“If Peter, your first Pope, told Cornelius to ‘get up’ and not fall at his feet in reverence, why do Peter’s successors allow such gestures? Even if people are not worshiping the Pope, but only showing respect, isn’t it problematic that it may appear to be worship to others?”

I believe that much of this developed during the time when the Pope was not only spiritual leader but also leader of an extensive temporal kingdom and the leader of “Christendom”. Such acts of reverence etc. are the trappings of temporal offices.
Much has been discarded over the last half century or so, but it is difficult for Our Holy Father to stop everyone from bowing or kneeling etc out of respect for who and what he represents.
I would assure the one asking that in reality the pope is submitting to such deference rather than demanding.

Incidentally, it seems many non-Catholics use this same verse to bolster their objection to venerating Mary, the saints, or any statues of them. There is a deeply ingrained fear of idolatry instilled in many of these people, and they are ultra-sensitive to anything that may hint of misplaced worship/veneration.

I think that our Protestant brothers have a good point. While the Church is very clear on who we worship and who we only venerate and honor, there is a danger of individuals falling into the trap of idolatry. This why I try not to overreact to their concerns. But rather try to explain simply and clearly what the Church teaches so that hopefully they will come to understand that Catholicism does not teach idolatry.

Peace
James

 

[runningdude]

How would you charitably respond to a non-Catholic who poses the following question:

“If Peter, your first Pope, told Cornelius to ‘get up’ and not fall at his feet in reverence, why do Peter’s successors allow such gestures? Even if people are not worshiping the Pope, but only showing respect, isn’t it problematic that it may appear to be worship to others?”

Incidentally, it seems many non-Catholics use this same verse to bolster their objection to venerating Mary, the saints, or any statues of them. There is a deeply ingrained fear of idolatry instilled in many of these people, and they are ultra-sensitive to anything that may hint of misplaced worship/veneration.

Protestant worship and practices follow one of two paths: they either see Catholic practice as beautiful and emulate it, or they assume it all evil and react against it.

Since their only reason for condemning such a practice as prostrating before the Pope is that it is a Catholic thing, it would be disastrous to try to appease them by stopping. Whatever we do would not satisfy them. As Catholics, we can’t be self conscience about everything.

As an aside about the first point, many people accuse the Ordinary Form of mass to as emulating Protestant services too closely - yet it was Protestants that modified their services to emulate the mass!

 

[TommyWommy]

Why exactly did Peter have a problem with Cornelius falling at his feet? Did he think Cornelius regarded him as God? Or, was Peter concerned with appearance?

And, just to play devil’s advocate, why couldn’t the Pope from any time in history establish a “get up, I too am just a man” policy? Why would that be so difficult? Or, rather, why did the policy stop with Peter and not transfer to his successors?

I intend no disrespect to the Holy Father. Just learning.

 

[JRKH]

Why exactly did Peter have a problem with Cornelius falling at his feet? Did he think Cornelius regarded him as God? Or, was Peter concerned with appearance?

I don’t think we can establish exactly why Peter had a problem with it. Certainly the hierarchy and such in the first century had not taken on the same sort of trappings that latter became associated with it. Also there may have been cultural issues in that time and place at play…just a couple of things to consider.

And, just to play devil’s advocate, why couldn’t the Pope from any time in history establish a “get up, I too am just a man” policy? Why would that be so difficult? Or, rather, why did the policy stop with Peter and not transfer to his successors?

Well first of all we don’t know when it changed, so we don’t know how the early popes handled the issue. Then the Church was still “underground” (300 years??) I’m sure that there was far less pomp and ceremony involved.
As to could the Pope make such a change? Sure he could, but I think that there really isn’t a need felt for it. Catholics approach the pope, genuflect and kiss the ring. Others, non-catholics do not and even if a Catholic does NOT genuflect nothing is made out of it. So it seems as though the Holy Father seems to just let people do what is comfortable for them - and maybe that is more loving…

I intend no disrespect to the Holy Father. Just learning.

No Problem - We’ll learn together…

Peace
James

 

[justtryin]

Perhaps Peter’s humility was uncomfortable with Cornelius falling at his feet in reverence.
The things Peter had been through with Christ would surely humble a man more than any other experience in life. How many times did Christ correct and test Peter’s faith? All this to build his character and faith to the point where he would have a faith capable of leading Christs’s flock.
In the end Peter’s faith became strong enough to enable him to walk on water with Christ after all. Pride would not serve Peter’s faith very well. True heartfelt humility on the otherhand…

Just my thought

 

[promethius]

Why exactly did Peter have a problem with Cornelius falling at his feet? Did he think Cornelius regarded him as God? Or, was Peter concerned with appearance?

Look at exactly what Peter said to the fact that Cornelius fell to the ground and “adored” him(D-R):

26Peter, however, raised him up, saying, “Get up. I myself am also a human being.”

This is significant… adoration is not respect, it is worship. Adoration is reserved for God. The use of this word in particular in this spot is VERY significant…

Peter is not concerned with humility or appearances… he is concerned with the fact that Cornelius is, in fact, attempting to worship him as a god. This verse is very, VERY different from simply discussing appearances…

And, just to play devil’s advocate, why couldn’t the Pope from any time in history establish a “get up, I too am just a man” policy? Why would that be so difficult? Or, rather, why did the policy stop with Peter and not transfer to his successors?

This policy is already established. It’s called the first commandment. We do not give Adoration towards anyone but God. A pope establishing this as a policy would simply be redundantly stating what is already divinely and infallibly revealed in scripture and sacred tradition.

 

[TommyWommy]

Look at exactly what Peter said to the fact that Cornelius fell to the ground and “adored” him(D-R):

That’s what I figured, but different bibles say different things. Some say he worshiped him. Others say he reverenced or adored him. Somehow, Peter must have known what Cornelius was doing. I wonder what Cornelius did or said other than falling at Peter’s feet to make it “worship” rather than “honor” or “respect?”

 

[promethius]

That’s what I figured, but different bibles say different things. Some say he worshiped him. Others say he reverenced or adored him. Somehow, Peter must have known what Cornelius was doing. I wonder what Cornelius did or said other than falling at Peter’s feet to make it “worship” rather than “honor” or “respect?”

My guess would be that Cornelius did something like called him a god or something… hence Peter’s response (which would be particularly unusual if Cornelius was only showing respect in the same way you would to any other respected leader) which only makes sense in the context of actual idolatry…

 

[JRKH]

That’s what I figured, but different bibles say different things. Some say he worshiped him. Others say he reverenced or adored him. Somehow, Peter must have known what Cornelius was doing. I wonder what Cornelius did or said other than falling at Peter’s feet to make it “worship” rather than “honor” or “respect?”

When I have a concern like this where translations are different, I try to find out what the Greek word is and means. That is often times helpful.
In this case the word is:
Proskuneo

1. 
   *]to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
   *]among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
   *]in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
   *]used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank
   

           [LIST=a]

   *]to the Jewish high priests
   *] to God
   *] to Christ
   *] to heavenly beings
   *] to demons
   
   Since we know that He “fell down” it’s obvious that this was not a “kiss on the hand”. This was a much more profound expression and obviously one that Peter felt very uneasy with.
   
   Peace
   James

 

[TommyWommy]

When I have a concern like this where translations are different, I try to find out what the Greek word is and means. That is often times helpful.
In this case the word is:
Proskuneo

1. 
   *]to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
   *]among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
   *]in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
   *]used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank
   

           [LIST=a]

   *]to the Jewish high priests
   *] to God
   *] to Christ
   *] to heavenly beings
   *] to demons
   
   Since we know that He “fell down” it’s obvious that this was not a “kiss on the hand”. This was a much more profound expression and obviously one that Peter felt very uneasy with.
   
   Peace
   James

1. 
   Makes sense.