Acts 17:11 The Bereans rejected "Scripture Alone"!

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Acts 17:11
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians,** for they received the message with great eagerness** and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

The Thessalonians were “Less Noble” they only accepted “Scripture Alone”!
They have an** EXCUSE**; When they stand in front of Jesus they can say…“We did not know we were to listen to the Church, we do not have; ‘Listen to the Church’, in our Old Testament!”

The Protestant can’t say… “I did not know”! They have New Testament, their bible tells them…“Listen to the Church”! They are “NOT NOBLE” they have NO EXCUSE for rejecting Jesus!

Dogknox
 
dogknox said:
Acts 17:11
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians,** for they received the message with great eagerness** and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

The Thessalonians were “Less Noble” they only accepted “Scripture Alone”!
They have an** EXCUSE**; When they stand in front of Jesus they can say…“We did not know we were to listen to the Church, we do not have; ‘Listen to the Church’, in our Old Testament!”

The Protestant can’t say… “I did not know”! They have New Testament, their bible tells them…“Listen to the Church”! They are “NOT NOBLE” they have NO EXCUSE for rejecting Jesus!

Dogknox
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I do not think they reject Jesus
 
dogknox said:
Acts 17:11
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians,** for they received the message with great eagerness** and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
…]Dogknox
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Friend, to be honest I think you’ve misconstrued the grammar of the text. That verse of holy scripture is complimenting the men of Berea for their willingness to search the scriptures to prove Paul’s words.

Here’s my Douay-Rheims commentary:

“The Jews of Berea are justly commended for their eagerly embracing the truth and searching the scriptures, to find out the texts alleged by the Apostle: which was a far more generous proceeding than that of their countrymen at Thessalonica, who persecuted the preachers of the Gospel without examining the grounds they alleged for what they taught.”

The point of St. Luke in writing this is to show that the Bereans were wise and prudent to search for what St. Paul preached in the Scriptures. Actually, this verse could easily be twisted or understood as supporting Sola Sciptura, because the Bereans went to Scripture first, when St. Paul claimed he was preaching of the One who fulfilled the Scripture.
 
dogknox said:
Acts 17:11
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians,** for they received the message with great eagerness** and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

The Thessalonians were “Less Noble” they only accepted “Scripture Alone”!
They have an** EXCUSE**; When they stand in front of Jesus they can say…“We did not know we were to listen to the Church, we do not have; ‘Listen to the Church’, in our Old Testament!”

The Protestant can’t say… “I did not know”! They have New Testament, their bible tells them…“Listen to the Church”! They are “NOT NOBLE” they have NO EXCUSE for rejecting Jesus!

Dogknox
Click to expand...
What you’re getting at is unclear. The Bereans compared Paul’s message to scripture to verify it’s truthfulness. Protestants attempt to do the same (whether they are right is a separate issue). And your assertion that Protestants reject Jesus is ridiculous and baseless.
 
The Bereans listened to the message and checked it acdcording to Scripture. Of course we need teachers, no one gives a Bible to an 8 year old and says “Read up, you’re getting baptised next year.” I think some Catholics like to think Protestants throw a dart at a page of the Bible and develop a new doctine based on what they hit.

Matthew 21:31 Which one of the sons obeyed his father? “The older one,” the chief priests and leaders answered. Then Jesus told them: You can be sure that tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the kingdom of God before you ever will!
Did you hear that everyone, we must all start turning tricks or start taking accounting classes. Protestants take Scripture seriously. I think studious inquiriy will show that Catholics and Protestants have more in common than in disagreement.
 
It should be noted that there was no “tradition” about the Messiah and therefore the only source of revelation about the Messiah was the Old Testament. The Jews had other well known traditions such as the seat of Moses (Matthew 23:2). It is therefore no surprise that the Bereans had to look to scripture to see what they said about the Messiah. The passage cannot be used to imply that they believed in “scripture alone”. But I would suggest to you that there might have been another simple reason why they had to look to the scriptures. Read on! 🙂

Let me put myself in the position of a Berean.
Paul : “it was necessary for the Christ to suffer, the scripture says this”
Me: “Where, show me…”
Paul: “right here Isaiah…”
Me: “hmmm. It’s really here! That’s a new interpretation. I had never understood it this way before. It makes sense.”
Paul: “it was necessary for him to rise from the dead as well…”
Me: “Where does it say that?”
Paul : “See Psalm … Now see how these two are connected.”
Me: “Hmmm. Wow it’s there. This is great.”

**The big question is - Did the Bereans examine the scripture to check the doctrines of Paul, or whether to see that what Paul quoted as scripture was actually there in the scriptures? **

I think the evidence suggests that it might have been the latter case. I don’t think the Bereans were capable in and of themselves to come to Paul’s doctrines from their own reading of scripture. We know that the Jews were expecting a political Messiah. They couldn’t possibly have come to the conclusion that the Messiah would actually be a suffering servant through their own readings of scripture.

Consider this - a Jehovah’s witness walks up to a Christian who is not really well versed in scripture, shows him a couple of verses, and the Christian is convinced with the doctrine of that Jehovah’s witness. The same thing happened with the Bereans, the difference being that the doctrine was that of God.

What is important to note is that the Bereans didn’t come up with the truth from scripture on their own but needed someone to show them how to interpret that scripture. That is what is meant by “receiving the word with eagerness”. Paul needed to explain to them as to how Jesus really is the suffering servant promised in Isaiah. The same thing is done by the church today. It shows us how to interpret scripture. The church for example, teaches us that Mary is symbolized in the woman in Revelation 12. Can a person come up with this conclusion by reading Rev 12 without this prior knowledge? Possibly or possibly not.

The Bereans didn’t have to reject “scripture alone” because I don’t think there was even any such notion as “scripture alone” at that time. It would be an absurdity to them. Think about God’s name, for example, in scripture - YHWH. It is made up of syllables. How it is to be pronounced is not mentioned in scripture, but handed down through tradition. It’s one of the reasons why Jehovah’s witnesses screw that up by pronouncing it as “Jehovah” instead of “Yahweh”.
 
david_friol said:
I do not think they reject Jesus
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david_friol It is good to meet you!
You are right…
The Bereans became Christians… Christians believe the words of Jesus!!
Jesus gave the world a "Church with his AUTHORITY to “Teach All Nations”!
Jesus never made any protestant churches… Not one! Jesus made his Christian Church…“The Holy Catholic Church!”
Dogknox🙂
 
GloriousOrder said:
Friend, to be honest I think you’ve misconstrued the grammar of the text. That verse of holy scripture is complimenting the men of Berea for their willingness to search the scriptures to prove Paul’s words.

Here’s my Douay-Rheims commentary:

“The Jews of Berea are justly commended for their eagerly embracing the truth and searching the scriptures, to find out the texts alleged by the Apostle: which was a far more generous proceeding than that of their countrymen at Thessalonica, who persecuted the preachers of the Gospel without examining the grounds they alleged for what they taught.”

The point of St. Luke in writing this is to show that the Bereans were wise and prudent to search for what St. Paul preached in the Scriptures. Actually, this verse could easily be twisted or understood as supporting Sola Sciptura, because the Bereans went to Scripture first, when St. Paul claimed he was preaching of the One who fulfilled the Scripture.
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You are wrong…
The Thessalonians rejected the TEACHING of Paul… Out right!! They believed in “Scriptures ALONE”, they were LESS NOBLE!!
Paul was TEACHING with AUTHORITY… He was TEACHING Jesus RESURRECTED!!
Not in a hundred million years would the Bereans arrived at the TRUTH without Paul there to TEACH IT!!

They NEEDED a TEACHER… Paul was TEACHING!!
Proving beyond all doubt… “Man CAN’T interpret the scriptures ALONE!!”
Acts 17:11 proves this to be so!!

Dogknox🙂
 
dswearin said:
What you’re getting at is unclear. The Bereans compared Paul’s message to scripture to verify it’s truthfulness. Protestants attempt to do the same (whether they are right is a separate issue). And your assertion that Protestants reject Jesus is ridiculous and baseless.
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**Your words… **
And your assertion that Protestants reject Jesus is ridiculous and baseless.
Click to expand...
FACT: To be Christian is to accept Jesus’ words!!
Scriptures are clear…****"You reject Jesus by rejecting his words!"

Words of Jesus..The Great Commission!
“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19** Therefore go** and make disciples of all nations, baptizing

Do you see it?… make disciples of all nations, baptizing!!** Protestants reject baptism as symbolic!!** Protestants MUST reject…Jesus, his words must be rejected as LIES!! make disciples of all nations, baptizing
Jesus tells you, he tells Protestants…****"Baptism MAKES Disciples!!"

Words of Jesus..The Great Commission!
20** and teaching **them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

dswearin Do you see it?? “AND TEACHING”!!
In CONTEXT… The Same AUTHORITY Jesus gave to his Church to Make Disciples extends to “TEACHING”!!
Jesus’ CHRISTIAN Church has all of God’s AUTHORITY to TEACH all Nations!!
dswearin You must reject the TEACHING church to believe in the man made TRADITION of “Scripture ALONE”! You must reject the Great Commission!!

Wait…
dswearin You are forced to reject the 2 verses above to be Protestant… But it does not end there…
LOOK…And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

**FACT: **Jesus never formed any Protestant churches!! He is NOT he cannot be “ALWAYS with your man made churches”!
To be ALWAYS with you he had to have started with you!!
You must reject the Great Commission as a LIE from the mouth of God!

Martin Luther said: “All man needs is the scriptures, even a small child can interpret the scriptures rightly”!
The Great Commission proves man can’t interpret the scriptures… They MUST reject and twist the scriptures to stay in their protest against Jesus!

Jesus said… “Listen to the Church”!
Martin Luther said: “I will not Listen to the Church all I need is the scriptures”!
The scriptures say: “Listen to the Church”!

dswearin Listen to the Church is still in your bible as it was in Martin Luther’ bible!!

Martin Luther said: “Satan is the head of the Catholic Church”! For him to make this statement he has to reject the scriptures!! Jesus is ALWAYS with his Church! “ALWAYS WITH” are his words!!
Luther and you are forced to REJECT Jesus… You MUST reject the words of Jesus to believe Jesus is NOT always with his Church!
dswearin You are forced to believe Satan, somehow overpowered Jesus, that Satan took the body of God away from Jesus!
dswearin Your words are wrong…
And your assertion that Protestants reject Jesus is ridiculous and baseless.
Click to expand...
Scriptures PROVE you wrong!!!

Dogknox
 
dogknox said:
david_friol It is good to meet you!
You are right…
The Bereans became Christians… Christians believe the words of Jesus!!
Jesus gave the world a "Church with his AUTHORITY to “Teach All Nations”!
Jesus never made any protestant churches… Not one! Jesus made his Christian Church…“The Holy Catholic Church!”
Dogknox🙂
Click to expand...
You could bake me a cake and I could reject it but that does not mean I reject you.
 
david_friol said:
You could bake me a cake and** I could reject it **but that does not mean I reject you.
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david_friol You reject scriptures… otherwise you would be Catholic!
Look…
** Matthew 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.**”

david_friol QUESTION… Is Jesus ALWAYS with your protestant churches?
Keep in mind Jesus never made any protestant churches… Not even one!
Keep in mind there were NO protestant churches for sixteen hundred years AFTER Jesus said…** "And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.**”

If Jesus is; NOT ALWAYS WITH your protestant churches, then you MUST be in the WRONG church!

Dogknox
 
So the Bereans then just stopped studying Scripture after Paul and Silas left? They said, “Thank God! Now that we have a teacher we should start studying Scripture.” It is obvious they were already studying Scripture and knew it well, which was part of Jewish worship. Also, baptism doesn’t make a disciple, it’s not magic water. The faith in God and His grace make the baptism an act of conversion.
 
stevekehl said:
So the Bereans then just stopped studying Scripture after Paul and Silas left? They said, “Thank God! Now that we have a teacher we should start studying Scripture.” It is obvious they were already studying Scripture and knew it well, which was part of Jewish worship. Also, baptism doesn’t make a disciple, it’s not magic water. The faith in God and His grace make the baptism an act of conversion.
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Hello** stevekehl** It is good to meet you…
I reply… THINK: There was no “new testament” for 400 more years… The Bible was not put together until 400 A.D.! Jesus and salvation was TAUGHT by the Church…
The CHURCH is a TEACHING Church… With the AUTHORITY of God to TEACH!

The Great Commission
“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 **and **teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

The “Therefore Go” puts it into CONTEXT!!
Jesus’ AUTHORITY is is the Church’ AUTHORITY!!
The “AND” tells you the AUTHORITY is given to the CHURCH to TEACH all NATIONS!! The Church has all the AUTHORITY of God to TEACH ALL NATIONS! So if you reject the AUTHORITY of the church, to think all you need is scriptures, you MUST reject the scriptures to believe you don’t need to listen to Jesus’ church!

THINK: There were very few bible until the printing press… Bibles were costly works of art… Only the very rich could own a bible and besides… Most people could not read!! It was the CHURCH that TAUGHT Jesus it was the CHURCH that brought salvation to the world!

** stevekehl** LOGIC tells you that you are WRONG, to think man only needed scriptures to learn TRUTH!!

No one TEACHES themselves… TEACHERS TEACH, they use books to TEACH!!

Also… Baptism makes disciples… make disciples of all nations, baptizing
Christians believe the scriptures!! You can’t be christian and reject the words of Jesus!!!
Jesus tells you the Church has his AUTHORITY to make disciples!!

Go… Make disciples in the name of the Father, with all the authority of the Father!
Go… Make disciples in the name of the Son, with all the authority of the Son!
Go… Make disciples in the name of the Holy Spirit, with all the authority of the Holy Spirit!
** stevekehl** The church speaks for God… In the name of God with his AUTHORITY!
** stevekehl** THINK: When you speak for someone you speak in their name… you represent them!!!
Go… Make disciples in the name of God, with all the authority of God!

The Church has ALWAYS added people to the church; by baptism!!!
Scriptures do not lie… God does not lie… Protestants are forced to believe God lies!!
LOOK..Peter Pleads he WARNS…** Be SAVED**, be baptized!!
**Acts 2:40 **With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”
41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

** stevekehl** Three Thousand accepted Peters message, they were baptized and “ADDED to the Body of Jesus by Baptism!!”

** stevekehl** QUESTION: HOW were they ADDED?
What does Jesus tell you??? And about three thousand were added to their number that day.

** stevekehl** You are forced to REJECT “Baptism ADDS people to Jesus’ body”, you are forced to reject The Great Commission!

** stevekehl** THINK… THINK… Believe the scriptures!"
**NOTE… **God has only one son… you MUST… You HAVE to be in the body of Jesus to be a Child of God!

NOTE… You have to be IN the body of Jesus to “RISE from the dead”!
Jesus can’t die a second time…
FACT: Jesus’ body resurrected!!

** stevekehl** IF…
If you were christian you would believe in the resurrection!** IF you are IN the body of Jesus you would also RISE!!**
LOOK.. Scriptures…1 Peter 3:21
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you **by the resurrection **of Jesus Christ

**QUESTION: **How does baptism save you? What do you read!!!

IN ALL HONESTY… You reject the scriptures for what you have been “TAUGHT”!!!
Your protestant churches TEACH… “Baptism is symbolic” they teach what is not scriptural!!
**** stevekehl**** You believe their TEACHINGS over the words of Jesus!!!

** stevekehl** You do NOT believe in scriptures ALONE!!
😛
 
dogknox,

To be perfectly fair, St. Irenaeus of Lyon testifies (in his Against Heresies) that there are four Gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, around A.D. 160. He utterly rejects all other Gospels and false teachings. Interestingly, he includes Tobit with Hosea as inspired Scripture. We could not say that he is particularly indecisive about the matter; in fact, we can say positively that he was insistent on a Canon. The Canon he pressed for is exactly the one the Church has accepted. Don’t assume, though, that the Scriptures were compiled and sealed in A.D. 425, because that just isn’t so. 🙂
 
GloriousOrder said:
dogknox,

To be perfectly fair, St. Irenaeus of Lyon testifies (in his Against Heresies) that there are four Gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, around A.D. 160. He utterly rejects all other Gospels and false teachings. Interestingly, he includes Tobit with Hosea as inspired Scripture. We could not say that he is particularly indecisive about the matter; in fact, we can say positively that he was insistent on a Canon. The Canon he pressed for is exactly the one the Church has accepted. Don’t assume, though, that the Scriptures were compiled and sealed in A.D. 425, because that just isn’t so. 🙂
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GloriousOrder How are you today?
I reply what you forget or choose to ignore is… There were hundreds of False, phony manuscripts kicking around for the first four hundred years! Some were starting to be believed as truth!!
No one knew the true from the phony letters!! Man needed an AUTHORITY to pick the truly inspired from the lies!!

THINK: If every letter had started with “This is truly inspired works of God” man still would have need a AUTHORITY to pick out the phony works that also would have started with. “This is truly inspired works of God”!!!

GloriousOrder The Catholic Church decided the truly inspired from the uninspired works!! Then she put all the inspired into one book she named the “Bible”!

THINK: You might as well toss your bible out your window if you reject the Catholic Church!

THINK: If God guided his Holy Church in decided the truly inspired from the lies… Don’t you think God would also stick around and also help "INTERPRET the same inspired works!??

Historical FACT: The POPE closed the canon is 400 A.D.!!!~:)

Dogknox
 
Oh you provocateur!😉 They did place a lot of emphasis on the OT though, that much is clear. They didn’t believe in a vacuum.
 
dogknox said:
Acts 17:11
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians,** for they received the message with great eagerness** and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

The Thessalonians were “Less Noble” they only accepted “Scripture Alone”!
They have an** EXCUSE**; When they stand in front of Jesus they can say…“We did not know we were to listen to the Church, we do not have; ‘Listen to the Church’, in our Old Testament!”

The Protestant can’t say… “I did not know”! They have New Testament, their bible tells them…“Listen to the Church”! They are “NOT NOBLE” they have NO EXCUSE for rejecting Jesus!

Dogknox
Click to expand...
the Bereans where checking what Pual said to scripture. The were not merely seaching scripture to come up with different interpretations…as is the case today in protestantism and in lone wolf Christians.

Notice, they did not reject what Pual said, nor did they say, we dont need Paul, we have “sola scriptura” only.
 
dogknox said:
Acts 17:11
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians,** for they received the message with great eagerness** and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

The Thessalonians were “Less Noble” they only accepted “Scripture Alone”!
They have an** EXCUSE**; When they stand in front of Jesus they can say…“We did not know we were to listen to the Church, we do not have; ‘Listen to the Church’, in our Old Testament!”

The Protestant can’t say… “I did not know”! They have New Testament, their bible tells them…“Listen to the Church”! They are “NOT NOBLE” they have NO EXCUSE for rejecting Jesus!

Dogknox
Click to expand...
There is a better catch.

Bereans, as Jews living outside of Israel, used Deuterocanon which includes prayers to the dead etc. Now if they checked these scriptures and concluded there was no contradiction with teaching of the apostoles… well, you know what I mean. 🙂
 
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