Acts 19: 1-7 baptism discussion

[Tasha]

True, true. Thanks for that viewpoint. I just don’t want the subject boiling under the surface, waiting to erupt. It used to be a tiny simmering and I let it go for the sake of the friendship. But she’s made it clear that the devil and his church are the puppetmasters and I’m the puppet. And I’m a gigantic sinner. Which ok, that I am. uch:

 

[Tasha]

I missed the quote below, which she highlighted at the bottom of a long rant. I just saw it now while I was reading back. 2 days and poof, 35 years of friendship is gone. I haven’t heard from her since, so I’m taking it as my dismissal.

“Since I am not Catholic, I don’t understand what you are calling the Eucharist. So, I dont think it is quite fair to say it is not part of my life when I may refer to it in another term. Same as I dont understand sacraments. those are for the most part Catholic terms, to me.”

"Tell me what is or is not in my life that you think needs to be. Include yourself while youre at it. "

She told me she was going to speak her mind freely and I told her, sure, I could handle it and I requested the same. So much for keeping an “open mind”…

 

[JM3]

I missed the quote below, which she highlighted at the bottom of a long rant. I just saw it now while I was reading back. 2 days and poof, 35 years of friendship is gone. I haven’t heard from her since, so I’m taking it as my dismissal.

“Since I am not Catholic, I don’t understand what you are calling the Eucharist. So, I dont think it is quite fair to say it is not part of my life when I may refer to it in another term. Same as I dont understand sacraments. those are for the most part Catholic terms, to me.”

"Tell me what is or is not in my life that you think needs to be. Include yourself while youre at it. "

She told me she was going to speak her mind freely and I told her, sure, I could handle it and I requested the same. So much for keeping an “open mind”…

I wouldn’t take it as a dismissal.

I would simply answer this way:

‘What you need in your life is to be baptised the way Jesus said and to lose your hatred, it is not what Jesus taught.
No matter what you decide, I will always be your friend.’

Then pray a Divine Mercy novena for your friend.

 

[NHInsider]

Tasha - if you and this girl have been friends for a long time and you value that friendship, I would suggest that you propose to her that you agree to cease the discussion. Suggest that instead you covenant together that each of you will pray for the other, each asking the Lord to lead the other into truth, and that in the interests of friendship and charity you will not argue about things of the faith or try to convince each other of your respective positions. In fact, if either of you says something that triggers such an argument, the other can simply say “I’ll pray about that, too.” After all, who can possibly argue against asking the Lord to reveal Truth to a friend?

Your friend is seriously misinformed about both the teachings of the Church and the origins of her own faith, but because of the training she has received, she is unable to hear the truth from a Catholic. The Holy Spirit can change that, and you may someday have the joy of welcoming her into the Church.

In the meantime, she can pray as fervently as she likes that you will be led into truth, without any danger that you might be led into the heresies she has been taught. Win-win.

St. Peter was advising women married to pagan husbands, but his words about preaching without words are wise for many kinds of relationships: (1 Peter 3:1).

 

[Tasha]

Thanks so much for the kind words. Each and every one of you helped me with good points and great advice. Big hugs to all of you. I’ll try and write her again. Just going to give her some time to cool off first.

 

[jcrichton]

I’ve emailed her back with a lot of the info you all have given me. I’m trying hard to keep my cool with her. Unfortunately, I have a feeling I’m losing my dear friend. But as I said, this was a long time coming and it needed to be addressed and I’m not going to back down. If we have to part ways, then so be it.

It is sad when this happens but, for the most part, Catholics are seen as the enemy–someone to convert/“save” or to be ignored; this is where the battle takes place… do we Stand by Jesus, in His Mystical Body, or do we appease the world by accepting its interpretation of “the spiritual life?”

I will pray for you and your friend; be strong and keep your Faith, as St. Paul said, our lives are hidden in Christ!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I missed the quote below, which she highlighted at the bottom of a long rant. I just saw it now while I was reading back. 2 days and poof, 35 years of friendship is gone. I haven’t heard from her since, so I’m taking it as my dismissal.

“Since I am not Catholic, I don’t understand what you are calling the Eucharist. So, I dont think it is quite fair to say it is not part of my life when I may refer to it in another term. Same as I dont understand sacraments. those are for the most part Catholic terms, to me.”

"Tell me what is or is not in my life that you think needs to be. Include yourself while youre at it. "

She told me she was going to speak her mind freely and I told her, sure, I could handle it and I requested the same. So much for keeping an “open mind”…

…from the highlighted portion of your friend’s statement I gather that she thinks that you (or the excerpts you’ve mailed her) believe that she is lacking… this is inescapable, the Catholic Church has both the Written Tradition (Sacred Scriptures) and the Oral Tradition (Sacred Teachings) that have been passed down throughout its nearly 2000 years of history by the Magisterium (the Pope and Bishops)… most non-Catholic Christian can only rely on a limited history of 500 years or less… one that is based on the various conceptions of the various Scriptural interpretations of their founders… since they reject Church history, they can only work from that limited perspective (granted some tinker with the idea of early Christian Teachings but it is a futile search to separate the Church from her foundation, Jesus, and claim some historical authenticity–big puddle of quicksand!); ditto with the Sacraments… most non-Catholic Christians only accept what their founders or reformers claim as a bonafide sacrament–the fact that the Church has practiced the Doctrine of Faith from the 1st century AD is completely dismissed or partially rejected under some sort of ocult reasoning about the true church being set upon by the Catholics (that ole circular argument about the power of man, well Catholic men, who set his will against Christ and His Church and bested Him–ditto with the Holy Spirit).

…understanding all of this (and if both you and your friend can continue to communicate in a Christian manner–Christ-like) you can take the opportunity to both teach your friend about the Faith and deepen your understanding as you must research and study both the Catholic Faith and Sacred Scriptures…

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[YourAverageJoe]

I grew up in a predominately Catholic community so this was never a problem for me when I was young. ."

Hi Tasha
you are not alone in this department… for this very reason, many including myself grew up poorly catachized, growing up in a catholic community can become very complacent… I was never asked anything from a protestant until I was later in my twenties, and when I was asked, I was stumped for answers…alahh…that is when I started to take interest and really try and learn my faith…

in Christ

 

[Tasha]

Hi. Don’t know if any of you are left for this follow up. My friend finally wrote me back. She told me she had been busy. I’m so happy on that account. She avoided all the stuff we were debating, and that’s okay with me too. Here is what is interesting, though. She forwarded me an email about her pastor. From the forward, I see that she is Pentacostal. This is news to me. The email told a story about her pastor at a church service (or whatever they call it). Apparently he had been fasting and passed out. The EMTs came. He didn’t have a pulse for 15 minutes. (“He was dead.”) Then “out of nowhere, he jumped up, grabbed the microphone and said that God is a healer”.

I wrote her and told her I was happy he was well. She wrote back and said “Our church has been promised many miracles this year.”

I guess if we ever go back to debating, I can study on the Pentacostals to see where she is coming from, however, I already see that there are different types of Pentacostals, so it won’t be easy. Right now I am happy that she is speaking to me. Yay!

 

[jcrichton]

Hi. Don’t know if any of you are left for this follow up. My friend finally wrote me back. She told me she had been busy. I’m so happy on that account. She avoided all the stuff we were debating, and that’s okay with me too. Here is what is interesting, though. She forwarded me an email about her pastor. From the forward, I see that she is Pentacostal. This is news to me. The email told a story about her pastor at a church service (or whatever they call it). Apparently he had been fasting and passed out. The EMTs came. He didn’t have a pulse for 15 minutes. (“He was dead.”) Then “out of nowhere, he jumped up, grabbed the microphone and said that God is a healer”.

I wrote her and told her I was happy he was well. She wrote back and said “Our church has been promised many miracles this year.”

I guess if we ever go back to debating, I can study on the Pentacostals to see where she is coming from, however, I already see that there are different types of Pentacostals, so it won’t be easy. Right now I am happy that she is speaking to me. Yay!

It is always good to find communication channels opened… but be careful, most non-Catholic communicators are one way (everything is good when they get to express how grand it is to be “x” or if the receptor accepts their “truth” as the Truth)–it’s been my experience with people from my own family and from outside… that they eventaully come back to the old arguments… thinking that my silence (not questioning their belief) implied that I was converting out of the Church (I’ve also learned that it does not matter which group I end up in as long as I am not Catholic).

Also, I’ve learned that while one non-Catholic Christian subscribes to a particular doctrine, another from the same denominational group does not necessarily believes the same or in the same way… so rather than research about the various Pentacostal groups, if you really want to understand your friend better, consentrate on her group’s particular affirmations/doctrinal beliefs.

I still believe that this episode can allow you to grow if you employ your efforts in deepening your knowledge of Scriptrues and the Catholic Faith.

Also, I should warn you that you may never succeed in helping your friend to know the Truth; it is the Holy Spirit that will eventually convict her of the Truth, if she is willing to be Taught… and while our efforts might not always promote convertion, there’s no failure in lovingly assisting others to the full fellowship in the Mystical Body of Christ!

Maran atha!

Angel