Acts 8:14-17, Very confused

[MrBibbins]

During the course of a conversation with myself (we all do it ) I found myself pondering the Sacrament of Confirmation and it’s scriptural basis. The first passage that I came across was Acts 8:14-17 which pretty much answered my first question of “scriptural basis” as the laying of the hands upon (Confirmation) is quite evident in this passage. Now while this cleared up my initial curiosity, it’s also left me quite a bit confused and has posed a new question to me. Here is the verse(s),

“Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 8:14-17 NKJV)

This passage, seemingly, says that these Samarians had been Baptized but the Holy Spirit did not yet reside within them, which appears, to me, contradictory of the Church’s teaching on the Sacrament of Baptism and has left me asking myself, “Do we receive the Holy Spirit in our Baptism?”. Upon reading what material I could find on this subject I now find myself thinking somewhere along the lines of, when we are Baptized we are cleansed through and by the Holy Spirit but we do not actually receive the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, this is reserved until we are Confirmed. Is this correct or am I out of line and flat out wrong? Any help is greatly appreciated as I am still quite confused.

 

[JM3]

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

1285 Baptism, the Eucharist, and the sacrament of Confirmation together constitute the “sacraments of Christian initiation,” whose unity must be safeguarded. It must be explained to the faithful that the reception of the sacrament of Confirmation is necessary for the completion of baptismal grace.88 For “by the sacrament of Confirmation, [the baptized] are more perfectly bound to the Church and are enriched with a special strength of the Holy Spirit. Hence they are, as true witnesses of Christ, more strictly obliged to spread and defend the faith by word and deed.”

Roman Catechism (Trent)

Confirmation is Distinct from Baptism

Although said by Melchiades to have a most intimate connection with Baptism, Confirmation is still not to be regarded as the same, but as a very different Sacrament; for the variety of the grace which each of the Sacraments confers, and of the sensible sign employed to signify that grace, evidently render them distinct and different Sacraments.

Since, then, by the grace of Baptism we are begotten unto newness of life, whereas by that of Confirmation we grow to full maturity, having put away the things of a child, we can sufficiently understand that the same difference that exists in the natural life between birth and growth exists also between Baptism, which regenerates, and Confirmation, by virtue of which growth and perfect spiritual strength are imparted to the faithful.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Confirmation has been called “a sacrament in need of a theology.” Of course there is Church teaching and theology concerning confirmation, but it doesn’t seem to be as developed as yet compared to that for the other sacraments.

We do receive the Holy Spirit in baptism. It is at baptism that we receive the Divine Indwelling, in which the Holy Spirit (actually the entire Triune God, but we tend to speak of the Holy Spirit in this context, kind of like how the entire Triune God created the universe but in connection to creation we tend to speak of the Father. Why we do this is another discussion) is really present in our souls somehow.

Now, God is infinite and simple, and so He can’t be divided into pieces. We don’t receive part of the Holy Spirit at baptism and another part at confirmation. What can be different is our experience of God, or the extent that we are brought into God’s presence, or something like that. The change isn’t in the God who is present to us but in ourselves, in the level of our own participation in God so to speak.

 

[Bookcat]

The Holy Spirit comes at various times (and often) in the Christian life. Yes he comes at baptism. But there is certainly a particular outpouring with confirmation …at he laying on of hands. The passage is in a sense highlighting this reality. (not that the Holy Spirit did not come and dwell at baptism…)

(a good text for your meditation…read about both sacraments in the Catechism)

 

[TimothyH]

Confirmation is your participation in the power given to the Apsotsles and disciples at Pentacost by which they were able to proclaim God to the world without fear. Baptism only brings us into God’s family where we are called Children of God. I say “only” as it if weren’t wonderous enough…

Brothers, I could not talk to you as spiritual people, but as fleshly people, as infants in Christ. I fed you milk, not solid food, because you were unable to take it. Indeed, you are still not able, even now. (1 Corinthians 3:1-2)

Baptism is that by which God says to us, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” (Matthew 3:17) But baptism alone does not clothe us in power. Confirmation is what does that. Confirmation is our participation in what happened to the Apostles and disciples at Pentacost.

Consider how the disciples were before Pentacost.

On the evening of that first day of the week, when the doors were locked, where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, (John 20:19)

They locked themselves in a room out of fear.

***When they entered the city they went to the upper room *where they were staying, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James son of Alphaeus, Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James. All these devoted themselves with one accord to prayer, together with some women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers. (Acts 1:13-14)

Again, in a room by themselves, praying. But then Pentacost happens…

***And they were all filled with the holy Spirit and began to speak in different tongues, as the Spirit enabled them to proclaim (Acts 2:4)

The disciples are no longer locked away out of fear. They speak. They proclaim God’s word to the world!

***Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice, and proclaimed *to them, “You who are Jews, indeed all of you staying in Jerusalem. Let this be known to you, and listen to my words. (Acts 2:14)

Peter, the one who denied Jesus three times, stood up. He raised his voice. He speaks out boldly!

Peter and John then boldly go to the Temple- the heart of Judaism - and heal the cripple, and people are astonished. Peter proclaims God in the Temple and makes converts. He goes on to proclaim God to the supreme council of the Sanhedrin. Talk about bold! This is quite a change from the person who denied Christ three times and locked himself in the upper room out of fear. And it is all because of Pentacost.

And your participation in the power of Pentacost is through the sacrament of Confirmation. You are clothed in power through the sacrament, and given authority and ability to proclaim Jesus Christ to the world without even fear of death.

It is the power by which “Stephen, filled with grace and power, was working great wonders and signs among the people” (Acts 6:8). It is the power by which St. Stephen is able to be martyred yet pray for his murderers even as they kill him. It is the power by which Phillip, an ordinary man, is able to run alongside the chariot of a minister to the Queen of Ethiopia - a powerful and educated man - and instruct him. It is the power by which Saul becomes Paul, and converts entire nations while enduring shipwrecks, stoning and eventual martyrdom. It is the power by which St. Peter turned around and walked back to Rome at the end of his life instead of fleeing in disguise.

Baptism is friendship with God. But that’s not enough. That’s not all God want’s of us. God wants us to be more than children. Confirmation is Pentacost. Confirmation is authority. Confirmation is boldness. Confirmation is courage. Confirmation is power. Confirmation is how you become another Christ!

-Tim-

 

[puzzleannie]

During the course of a conversation with myself (we all do it ) I found myself pondering the Sacrament of Confirmation and it’s scriptural basis. The first passage that I came across was Acts 8:14-17 which pretty much answered my first question of “scriptural basis” as the laying of the hands upon (Confirmation) is quite evident in this passage. Now while this cleared up my initial curiosity, it’s also left me quite a bit confused and has posed a new question to me. Here is the verse(s),

“Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 8:14-17 NKJV)

This passage, seemingly, says that these Samarians had been Baptized but the Holy Spirit did not yet reside within them, which appears, to me, contradictory of the Church’s teaching on the Sacrament of Baptism and has left me asking myself, “Do we receive the Holy Spirit in our Baptism?”. Upon reading what material I could find on this subject I now find myself thinking somewhere along the lines of, when we are Baptized we are cleansed through and by the Holy Spirit but we do not actually receive the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, this is reserved until we are Confirmed. Is this correct or am I out of line and flat out wrong? Any help is greatly appreciated as I am still quite confused.

we have taken this to mean, in our study guides we use for confirmation prep, that the Samarians had been baptized with water in the name of Jesus but not in the name of the Trinity so they were given the outpouring of the Holy Spirit by the apostles to complete their baptism, ie confirm it, in effect receiving what we now designate as two sacraments and unleashing the action of the Spirit within these individuals and their local church.

 

[Bookcat]

we have taken this to mean, in our study guides we use for confirmation prep, that the Samarians had been baptized with water in the name of Jesus but not in the name of the Trinity so they were given the outpouring of the Holy Spirit by the apostles to complete their baptism, ie confirm it, in effect receiving what we now designate as two sacraments and unleashing the action of the Spirit within these individuals and their local church.

I would not take it that way. The term “in the name of Jesus” is referring to Christian baptism …not the formula. Sort of a shorthand. Like Pauls use of being “baptized into Christ”. There were various kinds of baptism around.

 

[MrBibbins]

Hmmm, I’m still confused… I read exerts from the CCC that seemed relevant to my question, but it didn’t really answer it, however this is, in short, how I am interpreting all these responses so far,

Upon being Baptized we receive the Holy Spirit and the Spirit dwells within us. When we’re Confirmed we awaken and stir up the Holy Spirit that has resided in us since Baptism which will then, better enable us to do the Lord’s will and serve him more perfectly.

Would this be a fair statement? Thank you for all the great informative responses thus far, it has helped.

 

[Bookcat]

Hmmm, I’m still confused… I read exerts from the CCC that seemed relevant to my question, but it didn’t really answer it, however this is, in short, how I am interpreting all these responses so far,

Upon being Baptized we receive the Holy Spirit and the Spirit dwells within us. When we’re Confirmed we awaken and stir up the Holy Spirit that has resided in us since Baptism which will then, better enable us to do the Lord’s will and serve him more perfectly.

Would this be a fair statement? Thank you for all the great informative responses thus far, it has helped.

Confirmation is a not an “awakening” or stirring up of the Holy Spirit but a new sending… we receive a new seal…in addition to the seal of baptism…etc etc

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P3S.HTM

(there can be other sendings of a different kind as well in Christian Life as St. Thomas points out).

In the early Church baptism and confirmation were often given at the same time.