Acts 8 and adults entering the catholic church the first time

[rbarcia]

**

Acts 8

36As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn’t I be baptized?"38And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. 40Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.

**

Philip seemed to Baptize the Eunuch right away. Why do adults who want to be catholic have to go through a year long process?

first actual grace
If they cooperate, then they have to do salutary acts.
When they are prepared based on what Roman Catholic Church says, then they can be baptized.

Seems like this adult entering into the church contradicts what new adult Christians were required to do in the Bible.

**

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:41
Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Acts 16:33
At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his family were baptized.

Acts 19:5
On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 22:16
And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’

**

My question is only in regard to adults who wish to become catholics. I do not wish to discuss infant baptism in this thread.

 

[ralphinal]

The Eunich had already proven to Philip that he had an understanding of the Scriptures. Once he had been told how Jesus fulfilled them, Philip judged him ready.

In the case of an adult entering the Church, they must first show an understanding of the teachings of the Church. If they do not understand, why should they be admitted?

 

[rbarcia]

The Eunich had already proven to Philip that he had an understanding of the Scriptures. Once he had been told how Jesus fulfilled them, Philip judged him ready.

In the case of an adult entering the Church, they must first show an understanding of the teachings of the Church. If they do not understand, why should they be admitted?

So a priest, in the Roman Catholic Church, can make a call and baptize someone right away?

 

[ralphinal]

So a priest, in the Roman Catholic Church, can make a call and baptize someone right away?

He can. Now, I should point out that for most adults entering the Church, Baptism is not needed. The majority of non-Catholic baptisms are considered valid by the Church. What is more than likely needed is Confirmation.

When confirmation is given to Catholic youth, the formation process is generally a year. I teach that class in my parish. That said, if a kid who has grown up Catholic and attended Catholic Sunday school for some time needs a year to be sure they know the faith, doesn’t it make sense that an adult who is not Catholic would too?

 

[rbarcia]

He can. Now, I should point out that for most adults entering the Church, Baptism is not needed. The majority of non-Catholic baptisms are considered valid by the Church. What is more than likely needed is Confirmation.

When confirmation is given to Catholic youth, the formation process is generally a year. I teach that class in my parish. That said, if a kid who has grown up Catholic and attended Catholic Sunday school for some time needs a year to be sure they know the faith, doesn’t it make sense that an adult who is not Catholic would too?

what is the purpose of confirmation?

 

[ralphinal]

what is the purpose of confirmation?

Confirmation corresponds with the laying on of hands mentioned in Acts when they found Christians who had been baptised but had not yet received the Holy Spirit. There are a couple of times this occures, and Paul writes about it.

Basically, when you are confirmed, you receive the Holy Spirit in a like manner as the Apostles at Pentecost. You are then considered a full member of the Church (in the case of Children, an adult). The connection you have with the Holy Spirit is stregnthened and you receive him in a new and more dynamic way.

That is the short version.

 

[Reformed]

**

Acts 8

36As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn’t I be baptized?"38And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. 40Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.

**

Philip seemed to Baptize the Eunuch right away. Why do adults who want to be catholic have to go through a year long process?

first actual grace
If they cooperate, then they have to do salutary acts.
When they are prepared based on what Roman Catholic Church says, then they can be baptized.

Seems like this adult entering into the church contradicts what new adult Christians were required to do in the Bible.

**

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:41
Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Acts 16:33
At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his family were baptized.

Acts 19:5
On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 22:16
And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’

**

My question is only in regard to adults who wish to become catholics. I do not wish to discuss infant baptism in this thread.

What a great post and spiritual insight!!! If baptismal regeneration is true and we enter the kingdom of God through water baptism, and we become united to Christ through water baptism… how dare that the Catholic Church withold entrance into the kingdom for a year.

 

[rbarcia]

Confirmation corresponds with the laying on of hands mentioned in Acts when they found Christians who had been baptised but had not yet received the Holy Spirit. There are a couple of times this occures, and Paul writes about it.

Basically, when you are confirmed, you receive the Holy Spirit in a like manner as the Apostles at Pentecost. You are then considered a full member of the Church (in the case of Children, an adult). The connection you have with the Holy Spirit is stregnthened and you receive him in a new and more dynamic way.

That is the short version.

So at confirmation, I should have tongues like fire come upon me like the Apostles and be able to speak in different languages?

In Acts 10:47, it seems like someone was confirmed and then they were Baptized then?

Acts 10:47
Then Peter said, “Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

 

[ralphinal]

So at confirmation, I should have tongues like fire come upon me like the Apostles and be able to speak in different languages?

In Acts 10:47, it seems like someone was confirmed and then they were Baptized then?

Acts 10:47
Then Peter said, “Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

Not as dramatic as all that, but in the same way. We are given the same gifts of the Spirit that they were, but like all gifts, we may not get them when WE want them but when God wants us to open them

That passage is unique. You must put it into proper context: it prooved that the faith was open to gentiles as well as Jews prior to the council of Jerusalem.

 

[Reformed]

What a great post and spiritual insight!!! If baptismal regeneration is true and we enter the kingdom of God through water baptism, and we become united to Christ through water baptism… how dare that the Catholic Church withold entrance into the kingdom for a year.

Ralph,

Could you please address my comment above? It seems the Catholic Church is holding back regeneration for one year if we are regenerated through water baptism. That’s a long time to walk according to the flesh and not be the Spirit. How can the unregenerate RCIA adult have power to live the Christian life without the Spirit dwelling in him?

 

[ralphinal]

Ralph,

Could you please address my comment above? It seems the Catholic Church is holding back regeneration for one year if we are regenerated through water baptism. That’s a long time to walk according to the flesh and not be the Spirit. How can the unregenerate RCIA adult have power to live the Christian life without the Spirit dwelling in him?

Again, you must see that MOST people becoming Catholic as adults have already been baptised validly.

Second, would your church baptise someone who did not know squat about Jesus? I doubt it. They would at least have to know who he was and what he did. We teach the same thing, only understanding Jesus means understanding the Church.

As I said earlier, a person who can show his priest that he knows the faith may be brought into the CHurch without RCIA, but that is not normal.

 

[Reformed]

Again, you must see that MOST people becoming Catholic as adults have already been baptised validly.

Second, would your church baptise someone who did not know squat about Jesus? I doubt it. They would at least have to know who he was and what he did. We teach the same thing, only understanding Jesus means understanding the Church.

As I said earlier, a person who can show his priest that he knows the faith may be brought into the CHurch without RCIA, but that is not normal.

I’m not sure if that’s a good explanation my friend. Catholic infants are baptized at infancy, therefore Catholic infants are united to Christ without faith and RCIA classes. There could be ex-Mormons or Unintarian Christians in the RCIA classes too. Or, there could just be pagan adults who never has been baptized. Or, there could be ex-Muslims’ Hindus, Eastern Religions, Witchcraft, Wicca adults in the RICA classes. We must be born again before we are able to see the kingdom of God according to John 3:3. If the RICA adult has not been born again, I think we would agree that the Spirit of God does not dwell in him (1 Cor 2). Therefore, those without the Spirit cannot discern the things of God in the RICA class for one year, until the Catholic Church gives them the Spirit through a Roman Catholic baptism. Of course, this is only a Roman Catholic diliema and does not inolve biblical Christianity which rejects baptismal regeneration. Biblical Chrsitianity states that faith comes by hearing and hearing through hearing and receiving the gospel (Rom 10).

 

[rbarcia]

Again, you must see that MOST people becoming Catholic as adults have already been baptised validly.

Second, would your church baptise someone who did not know squat about Jesus? I doubt it. They would at least have to know who he was and what he did. We teach the same thing, only understanding Jesus means understanding the Church.

As I said earlier, a person who can show his priest that he knows the faith may be brought into the CHurch without RCIA, but that is not normal.

What about Hindus or Buddist who have never had a baptism? Do they have to wait a year?

What if they get hit by a car or die in that year?

 

[Ruthie]

First of all, there is a misconception here. RCIA does not take a whole year, more like 6 months. Part of that time is spent learning eough to decide if you want to be Catholic. AFAIK, the catechism classes for the kids raised in the church take a year - and they have already been baptized in the Church.

Second, most adults in RCIA have already been baptized. Any baptism using the formula, “In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit,” done with water, is considered a valid and sacramental baptism.

There were 20 students in my RCIA class, and only 3 needed baptism. Once the unbaptized decide for sure to be Catholic, they are covered by the Baptism of Desire. If they die before they are dunked, Jesus knows they intended to be baptized, but were obediently waiting for the Church to say “go.”

Since the “go” is based on being able to have the whole community there to welcome them as candidates in the special season of Easter, there is no reason individual catechumens cannot be baptized privately, if they wish.

And, please, let’s respect the OP’s request:

I do not wish to discuss infant baptism in this thread.

God bless us all,

Ruthie

 

[ralphinal]

I’m not sure if that’s a good explanation my friend. Catholic infants are baptized at infancy, therefore Catholic infants are united to Christ without faith and RCIA classes.

They learn later and are confirmed.

There could be ex-Mormons or Unintarian Christians in the RCIA classes too. Or, there could just be pagan adults who never has been baptized. Or, there could be ex-Muslims’ Hindus, Eastern Religions, Witchcraft, Wicca adults in the RICA classes.

They would be baptised.

We must be born again before we are able to see the kingdom of God according to John 3:3. If the RICA adult has not been born again, I think we would agree that the Spirit of God does not dwell in him (1 Cor 2). Therefore, those without the Spirit cannot discern the things of God in the RICA class for one year, until the Catholic Church gives them the Spirit through a Roman Catholic baptism. Of course, this is only a Roman Catholic diliema and does not inolve biblical Christianity which rejects baptismal regeneration. Biblical Chrsitianity states that faith comes by hearing and hearing through hearing and receiving the gospel (Rom 10).

Say what now? Are you saying that God has no power to call someone until they are baptised? Are you saying that God’s grace has no effect on those who are not yet baptised? Then how is anyone called? How can they tell they beleive? What a weak God that would be.

Biblical Christianity AFFIRMS baptismal regeneration. It is you new comers that deny it.

 

[guanophore]

I’m not sure if that’s a good explanation my friend. Catholic infants are baptized at infancy, therefore Catholic infants are united to Christ without faith and RCIA classes.

Baptism cannot occur without faith, so your premise is flawed. Children are baptized with the faith of the parents, Godparents, and Church.

There could be ex-Mormons or Unintarian Christians in the RCIA classes too. Or, there could just be pagan adults who never has been baptized. Or, there could be ex-Muslims’ Hindus, Eastern Religions, Witchcraft, Wicca adults in the RICA classes. We must be born again before we are able to see the kingdom of God according to John 3:3. If the RICA adult has not been born again, I think we would agree that the Spirit of God does not dwell in him (1 Cor 2).

There are several erroneous premises here. It is an error that God cannot reveal Himself to people before they are regenerated in the Spirit. This is clear in the account of Cornelius, who clearly was seeking and finding favor with God prior to the Spirit falling upon him and his household.

Paul also observes those at the Areopagus were worshipping God, though He was unknown to them. Paul writes that God manifests Himself to humans in His creation 'so they are without excuse". If it is not possible to seek after God and to find Him before regeneration, then none of these accounts would make any sense.

Jesus also told the Apostles (who believed in Him) that the spirit was “with” them, and would be “in” them. So the spirit is “with” those seekers in RCIA, even before they come into the fullness of the faith.

Therefore, those without the Spirit cannot discern the things of God in the RICA class for one year, until the Catholic Church gives them the Spirit through a Roman Catholic baptism.

And yet, we see that people do discern things of the spirit prior to baptism. By this we know that there are many levels of “the Spirit”. In, upon, with, over, etc, etc.

Your prejudice is leaking again. Baptism is not “Roman”, and it need not be given in the catholic church.

Of course, this is only a Roman Catholic diliema and does not inolve biblical Christianity which rejects baptismal regeneration.

There is no dilemma for us. We understand the Apostolic teachings, and it is clear that what you know of as “biblical christianity” is something that has become far separated from teh Apostolic Teaching.

Biblical Chrsitianity states that faith comes by hearing and hearing through hearing and receiving the gospel (Rom 10).

This is an Apostolic Teaching, and is witness that salvation comes through the Church. It is the Church that has been authorized to preach and teach. Jesus did not intend that the “truth” be apprehended by reading the book , but by receiving that which was entrusted to faithful men, who were able to teach others also.

 

[guanophore]

Could you please address my comment above? It seems the Catholic Church is holding back regeneration for one year if we are regenerated through water baptism. That’s a long time to walk according to the flesh and not be the Spirit. How can the unregenerate RCIA adult have power to live the Christian life without the Spirit dwelling in him?

God’s grace is all sufficient.

The Lord knows those who are His, and He keeps them.

 

[guanophore]

Ralph,

Could you please address my comment above? It seems the Catholic Church is holding back regeneration for one year if we are regenerated through water baptism. That’s a long time to walk according to the flesh and not be the Spirit. How can the unregenerate RCIA adult have power to live the Christian life without the Spirit dwelling in him?

Do you think the Apostles walked by the flesh prior to Pentecost?